August 13, 2020: On the one hand (at least in Toronto) U.S. Citizen Services are opening up …
U.S. DIPLOMATIC MISSION TO CANADA
Message to U.S. Citizens in Canada: U.S. Consulate General Toronto resumes most American citizen services
AUGUST 13, 2020
Location: Toronto
Event: U.S. Consulate General Toronto resumes public appointments for American citizen services
BEGIN Message for U.S. Citizens
The U.S. Consulate General Toronto is now accepting a limited number of appointments for most U.S. citizen services. You can request an appointment for routine and emergency passport services, Consular Report of Birth Abroad (CRBA) services, and adult citizenship claims by emailing us at TorontoPassport@state.gov. Please note that appointment numbers are limited to prevent crowding, and therefore wait times for appointments will be longer than normal. We appreciate your patience and support for our mutual efforts to prevent the further spread of COVID-19.
We are not offering routine visa services at this time. For information on visa appointments, visit https://ais.usvisa-info.com/en-ca/niv.
August 15, 2020: On the other hand renunciation appointments are closed down with no reopening in sight …
The health and safety of those who work at and visit the Embassy and Consulates is our highest priority. In response to the global pandemic COVID-19, and in line with the Canadian government’s call to increase social distancing, the CLN Processing Center has suspended Loss of Nationality services until further notice. We will resume routine services as soon as possible but are unable to provide a specific date at this time.
Please be advised that at this time, appointments through the end of July have already been canceled and we have yet to determine if further cancelations are to be made. Canceled appointments will be rescheduled prior to scheduling new appointments from the current queue when we eventually resume with this service. Please note that we have suspended scheduling and rescheduling for the foreseeable future and will resume when we have returned to normal routine operations. It will take several months to recover from the backlog, however your place in the queue remains unchanged.
We regret any inconvenience caused by the suspension of this service and appreciate your support for our efforts to safeguard U.S. facilities and prevent the further spread of COVID-19 in Canada.
So you can’t even buy your way out now and for the seeable future.
Correct, they have slammed the door shut and thrown away the key. Of course, no American would possible see this as imprisonment (or we won’t even contemplate the “s” word) … But, it is clearly the American way.
It is necessary for people to find a way to simply declare their freedom (hopefully with the backing of their home countries).
Bottom line: The USA is forcing citizenship on people and they can’t even buy their freedom.
@USCA
I yearn for the good old days when that door could hit you on the way out.
This is exactly what I told my two about giving things a good hard think because there might come a time it was either more expensive (what’s to stop them from saying it’s now $10 or 20k to renounce?), or to outright not let you renounce.
And here we are.
🙁
For those who actually need one to wave at their bank, a Photoshop CLN might be the way to go.
Somewhat off topic, but do you think he still files US tax returns?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/17/edward-snowden-speaking-fees
Others have speculated,
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2013/08/07/snowden-finds-new-home-fields-job-offers-but-will-he-pay-his-taxes/
According to Snowden’s lawyer, he’s paying his taxes.
https://nypost.com/2016/08/11/edward-snowden-is-making-so-much-money-in-us-speaking-fees/
If this doesn’t qualify as a “reasonable explanation” for not having a CLN, nothing ever will.
Funny how they’ve decided its now safe enough to process people who want to document US citizenship, but renunciations continue to be way too risky. Instead of apologizing for the inconvenience caused by COVID-19, they really should be apologizing for the inconvenience caused by being a US citizen.
If you have a media contact, I think this story and Maz’ point are worth contacting them about. It’s a good way to get FATCA back in the news. People are now trapped in FATCA. Also the US welcomes new taxpayers, but will not let go of old ones (even though these people receive no benefits or services). Money, money money.
I’m not sure if this extended Renunciation Ban due to COVID, whilst allowing citizenship claims, is a Washington or a local directive (I was under the impression renunciation had resumed at some locations outside Canada, not sure). But anyway, I’ve been in contact with several DoS officials, in Canada and Washington, since we started Brock in ‘11. The higher-ups are sensitive to bad PR on this subject – or basically that it gets coverage at all. They want smooth. If this refusal to do renunciations gets coverage and it was a local decision, DC might get on Toronto’s case. If the decision to continue the Renunciation Ban came from DC, they might reverse it. Dunno, of course, just know they don’t like media flare-ups about renunciation.
***
As for me, I am really disgusted. IMO, citizenship is a contract you’re born into. The contract has an out clause. The other party is now refusing to let you out of the contract. IMO, they broke it. No ifs, ands or buts. This isn’t simply deliberate administrative delay. This isn’t a rogue official stonewalling. This isn’t the odd jerk intimidating and attempting to block expatriations. All of which we’ve encountered since 2011. This is a policy trapping people indefinitely in US citizenship. I am disgusted.
And of course Moody’s is right in there wanting to capitalize on either outcome of it all…
https://www.moodystax.com/webinars/us-citizenship-renunciation-canada/
Yeah I’m thinking it’s time to go visit my old friends at Moody’s again. Particularly to offer the “it’s free or halfway free this year only if you claim the stimulus money” instructions.
I’ve signed up for the Moody’s webinar. I’ve heard tales of people being frightened out of their wits after a Moody’s presentation, so I’m intrigued as to what they actually say.
“Your bank will report you to the IRS, The IRS will fine you thousands of dollars, You wwill be arrested if you cross the border. We can help you at a cost of merely 2-3 thousand”
“2-3 thousand”?
Renunciation coaching starts at $10k. That doesn’t include preparation of tax returns, but they can recommend a good accountant. If you don’t answer the renunciation questions carefully, you could be barred for life.
@BirdPerson You’ll enjoy this. What I found interesting is that he never really says anything factually wrong, when pressed to clarify information. He knows the rules. But he also knows how to put a lucrative spin on things. I don’t know how the webinar will work, it’s possible that (polite) hecklers may get tossed off – more difficult to do when you’re physically in the room.
I don’t have the link but there is a very lengthy post here from 2018 describing the experience in great detail. I expect that not much has changed.
@ Bird Person,
I compiled Ron’s review of the Moody’s seminar at this link, which also has a link to his original three-comment posting of it on another thread.
Thanks again, Ron, for having done that and shared your report with us. Thanks also for your people-skills at the seminar in pointing inaccuracies out without getting yourself thrown out 🙂 — I recall an on-line article where I found it hard to keep my cool simply writing a reply comment to these guys. Seriously, I do appreciate your interpersonal skills in getting them to admit the real facts on some matters of real importance. Their scare tactic approach really disturbs me.
My only disappointment on that day was that I had to leave in a hurry when it ended because I didn’t want to miss a world cup match (though given how Germany played, I shouldn’t have bothered) so I didn’t get to stay and talk to the people milling around with looks of terror in their eyes.
If I’m not busy I’ll do the webinar. If there’s a channel for “clarification” I’ll try to use it.
Maz and Pacifica: I agree. This is a great opportunity for getting FATCA back in the news. Elizabeth Thompson’s always done a good job for us. Anyone know her contacts? The most important right any “expat American” has at the moment is the right to renounce. It shouldn’t be that way but the U.S. of A. has made it so.
I am finding a resurgence of fear and worry among my dual US-Cdn acquaintances. May be spillover from the stress of Covid and closed border—but there is definitely more worry and less reluctance to give up their US citizenship. Those now ready cannot move on their plans to renounce. For those who have filed for years, not many are comfortable with just stopping. A friend cannot even get anyone to pick up the phone at the IRS to supply info re her US taxes, which her Canadian accounting firm asked her to get. A miserable situation.
I am one of those who are waiting. London actually says this is coming from the DoS:
The U.S. Embassy in London, Consulate General Edinburgh, and Consulate General Belfast are currently unable to accept appointments for Loss of Nationality applications. Under guidance from the U.S. Department of State, we are currently unable to process Loss of Nationality applications and cannot provide a timeframe for when this service will resume.
Berlin and Amsterdam do not explicitly state that they are not doing it, but both consulates suggest that they are only providing very limited services (passports and reports of birth abroad). I haven’t checked others.
This statement is somewhat ambiguous:
Is this a global shutdown of CLN processing in Washington, or does it just apply to Canada? Not clear.
This would certainly suck for anyone who needed to renounce on a timeline. I can think of two broad categories: a person born in the US dealing with a bank that’s being difficult; someone compliant with US assets or other exposure to the IRS who is facing an impending taxable event that could potentially cost them money, like the death of a wealthy relative (in this case the alternative to renunciation might be partial compliance, though I can see folks with US assets being nervous about this). Otherwise your basic non-compliant Canadian dual doesn’t really have an urgent need to renounce, as a general rule. It would also suck if they raised the price again soon after restoring services.
I’m actually giving it some thought this year, if I can get the freebie. As a non-compliant Canadian I have no particular reason in the short term, but there are two factors that make it worth considering if it costs me nothing: a potential future move to Europe, where the US birthplace is an issue; my elderly parents are incapable of lying so their estate lawyer knows of my dual citizenship – I’m not sure this would actually present a problem but it clearly worries my folks so might be kinder to them to provide a CLN one day.
Ron: What do you mean by “the freebie?”
If there’s a second stimulus benefit there will be $2400 free for the taking. Covers the renunciation fee with $50 left over for a decent lunch.
@Duchesse.
When I first learned about CBT I got scared and filed for a number of years (with no balance owing). After realizing what a crock it all was, I got mad and stopped. That was back in 2012 and I have heard nothing from the IRS since.
So if you know somebody who is sick of filing, they absolutely can just stop, particularly if there is a financial event which would cause them to owe US tax. (Like the sale of a house, for example.) The IRS won’t have a clue whether they died or were abducted by an alien and has no way of finding out.
Forget about calling the IRS. Even if someone did pick up the phone, the IRS staffer would know nothing about trans-border tax. Let that Canadian accountant waste their own time sitting on hold.
You’re right; this is a miserable situation. There comes a time when people need to take their destiny into their own hands because neither government is willing to offer any resolution whatsoever.
I checked the website of the American Institute in Taiwan (AIT), the US pseudo-embassy, and it seems they are accepting renunciation appointments. (Taiwan only has 22 live coronavirus cases at this writing.) Getting to Taiwan may be difficult, since tourists are not being accepted right now.
By the way, one page seemed to suggest that a birth certificate was necessary for renunciation. Is that true? Anybody know?