Win Win for U.S./Many of the NINE million Expats who may start voting would forgo the relief checks (spent overseas)/They want Residency Based Tax as per Rep. Platform (Promise kept)/Most do not pay tax BUT pay expensive fees to file/Save $$ on checks/Google it
— Anthony Scaramucci (@Scaramucci) April 17, 2020
To see the replies click on the part at the bottom that includes “are talking about this”.
While of course I abhor CBT, I see no problem with this current program. I file sanitized returns yearly. I got the Child Tax Credit last year (in the form of checks that I electronically deposited, by scanning them on my phone, to my US account). I am slightly above the threshold for pandemic payments, but I’d have no qualms in getting them and depositing them if I were. The system is stupid, if they want to give me money because I file, why tf not?
Don’t forget to express your gratitude though!
@Fred(B)
Quite frankly, but not judging, looking from the other side of the coin, some people could say that what you are doing is defeating the argument against cbt but rather favoring it, by actively participating in it.That’s the way ,the folks in Washington and even many of your countrymen would view it, questionably. From an outside perspective, it weakens the argument against cbt since it appears vindictive,like one hand washes the other .
However , in the present scenario , when the master gifts the slave the keys to his shacks,that one is hard to refuse.
Beware the gift that keeps on giving.
Or, recall a method of recruiting for the Royal Navy, perhaps other branches too. Hint, it why pewter tankards are glass bottomed.
Subsidized renunciation; hopefully free with another instalment. Simply handing the money back to the US government.
Robert Ross: I get what you’re saying. However FATCA was designed to enforce CBT. They did it to get money, not to send more abroad. People like me, that get money because of FATCA, just highlight how absurd it is. If the program had been calculated to cost more than it brought in do you think it would have passed? I’d say if hypothetically a few million US citizens abroad started getting hundreds of millions of dollars a year, it could help kill CBT. Note that I had decided to mind my own business from 2001 to 2014 when I got FATCA’d and felt forced (frightened) into filing again despite the fact that I owed no tax (which is why I had stopped filing in the first place). They forced me to file, and now they’re paying me. Had I been left alone, they wouldn’t be. I just find that amusing.
Ron Henderson: LOL. Gotta love America, right?
I’m feeling anxious and conflicted about this too. I’ve been mostly in semi-compliance (paper returns, FEIE only, FBARs with partially redacted account numbers due to identity theft concerns) but I forgot to file for 2018. Last week I filled in the form for non-filers to get their $1200 and used a relative’s address in the US for them to mail the cheque.
I figure I can use it to pay for my renunciation, but I just found out that my local consulate isn’t doing them anymore, so renouncing will be even more hassle than I thought. I can’t decide if taking the $1200 is payment for all the sleepless nights and panic attacks, or if it defeats my argument that my US birthplace has zero benefit to me.
I love that you filed FBARs with redacted account numbers.
@Fred (B)
“They forced me to file, and now they’re paying me. Had I been left alone, they wouldn’t be. I just find that amusing.”
Same story here. I’d been happily minding my own business (in Canada) for about 40 years and then found out about CBT around 2010 or so. I panicked, filed a stack of zero balance owing returns, then got an unsolicited $300 Bush stimulus cheque in the mail to show for my efforts.
Additionally, while researching the ridiculous CBT situation, I discovered that I was probably eligible for Social Security, having contributed for a few years 40 years ago when I worked in the US. So I applied, and voila!, now I receive a nice monthly benefit courtesy of US Treasury and SSA. Later, I realized that there was absolutely no need to suffer the inconvenience of filing US tax returns and FBARs so now I skip that part. CBT is certainly working well for me. What a system!
@cee and Ron.
Yeah, when I read cee’s post I had one of those “How come I didn’t I think of that?” moments. Beautiful!
@ Fred 9(B)
Agreed on all you wrote,but my point not is not about whether or not fatca/cbt/ corona relief brings in or loses money, its about the perception created when one participates in it ,from an outsider’s and a homelander’s perspective,especially. Elise Bean,Michael Hirsch et al will certainly have field day justifying cbt if another round of discussion ever surfaces. There is a price to pay for everything. That day may be when the US uses those monies sent overseas as a rationale to further the squeeze. No sin or pleasure ever goes unpunished.
@Cee
So now you’ll have two reasons to have sleepless nights,panic attacks, and/or the loss of that argument.
There is no squeeze to further.
@Robert Ross But how? They consider me a taxpayer, dumb as that is, and as such I’m entitled to the money. Their loss. I’ll keep it in my US$ “in case of emergency” renunciation fund.
True, I didn’t file for 2018, but they have no way of confirming my income and for all they know I quit my job and didn’t meet the minimum filing threshold.
I don’t think my individual decision to give them a US address for a cheque has any impact on their policy.
It’s basically free money for anyone with an SSN who is willing to fill out an online form that says “I’m single and earned less than $12k last year.” Nothing more, nothing less. The IRS is toothless and inept. There is no domestic debate about CBT.
@Cee
You mentionned being semi – compliant. Is that something like being half pregnant ? I would gather that you just missed one year ,otherwise,filing all over the map makes no logical sense ; but, it does make for fear-motivated behavior.
The US considers all its citzens as taxpayers even if they have been dead for a few years.
I support you if you use it to reounce. Good luck.
You accept the King’s coin, you are in the King’s service.
Maybe. Maybe not.
@Robert Ross Semi-compliant means not mentioning investment income or anything, just a 1040 and 2555. In the past I had missed a few years but I filed a few years at once in one envelope. Never, ever received a notice of assessment or anything. I don’t remember why I didn’t file last year, I just… didn’t.
@cee
You are living proof of the adage “What the IRS doesn’t know won’t hurt you.” As long as your inputs don’t trip any flags, there won’t be a response. (That move on the FBARs was bloody genius.)
One question – why on earth did you bother? Arguably, filing semi-truthfully may cause more grief than not filing at all.
At the very least we have a tailor -made -to- suit-the-customer-needs return . I do have a few questions though. Since a US tax form has been generated, the IRS can request relevant tax slips from that country . If one doesn’t file a US return they have no basis upon which to request tax slips,eg foreign earnings,etc. So why file , unless you really need to?
@Ron Henderson Because I didn’t know any better, plus didn’t know it was such a big problem when I first started filing. I worked in the US for a little while and then moved back to Canada right when all this was starting 10 years ago, so I just kept filing because I was afraid of getting caught if I stopped.
But now I just feel trapped. Last year I was feeling brave and so I didn’t file, but lately I’ve been panicking again. I came very close to renouncing a couple years ago and I think I need to get myself on the waitlist once the pandemic dies down.
My interpretation of the $1200 payment is that it is not voluntary to receive it, so it isn’t as though we should be debating whether it’s “right” to take the money. If one has been foolish/brave/frightened enough to have been filing 1040s in one way or another (as we have), then whether we ask for it or not a cheque will be posted to our filing address (I would never be so reckless as to provide direct banking information to the IRS…unless they nab the information from FBARs). In the current disruption of postal services between the USA and most Asian countries, I would expect a cheque posted today would arrive some time in September at the earliest. And I’m willing to bet my bottom renminbi that there is an expiry date on the cheque that will long predate our receipt of it. Kind of like those threatening demand notes some get from the IRS.
As for the Elise Beans and other human trash of this world citing the relief payments as a justification for CBT, I would think the opposite to be true. As numerous others have pointed out, it only strengthens our argument. Even the most bone-headed US lawmaker can be made to understand a simplified balance sheet which shows in column 1: money coming in from US persons overseas, and column 2: money going out for relief payments. There are two solutions to the resulting “problem”: squeeze harder on those gosh-darned tax cheats abroad, or, more straightforward, stop taxing and paying out to US persons abroad. In other words, if properly presented, the relief cheques can strengthen our arguments. I will accept mine with vengeful delight and make certain to spend every penny of it in my local economy on non-US made goods.
@cee
I don’t know your situation but if you are a Canadian citizen with no US assets or income sources you face no risk (there’s no possibility of collection). Collect your free $1200 – you’ve already applied for it – and whatever else they later add. Renounce if it makes you feel better, but it’s not really necessary – you can simply stop filing and that will be the end of it. (Obviously the IRS don’t care one way or the other. Your filing to date has been sporadic, incomplete, and in the case of FBARs, comically subversive, and you’ve not heard a peep.) As far as FATCA goes, easy-peasy, don’t disclose your US citizenship to Canadian financial institutions; use a drivers license as ID when you open accounts, as it doesn’t show place of birth.
“ If one doesn’t file a US return they have no basis upon which to request tax slips,eg foreign earnings,etc”
FATCA?