53 thoughts on “Debate: Citizenship & Worldwide Taxation: Is It Morally Justified or Unjustified, John Richardson vs. Edward Zelinsky, Friday 17 May”

1. “Residency to him can be manipulated by tax-avoiders who would stay overseas just the required number of days, but stay in the US (their effective domicile) as long as they could get away with.”

   Which unfortunately is true, isn’t it? Law-abiding US expats suffer the consequences of this: expats have the means and the opportunity to manipulate the US tax code without getting caught, and the IRS attributes the motive to them. Means, motive, and opportunity, hence guilty if not proved innocent. 🙁

   Problems emerge in the case of dual citizens, who would then have two domiciles, but he thinks these are minor (and solvable) compared to the alternatives.

   Yes — solvable by the US Congress (if it would pass a bill such as the Holding bill); but Congress declines to act, consequently the problems are certainly not minor.

2. Bob: It certainly is frustrating to be up against Zelinsky’s way of thinking. He argues (as do others) that CBT is a kind of “club membership fee”. It doesn’t matter to him if the “members” “attend the meetings”, “take advantage of the benefits of membership”, or help elect the “Board of Directors.” As long as they “support the club” by paying the annual “fee” he could care less. And yes, this is SO akin to 18th-century British thinking it is beyond belief that any American could possibly take Zelinsky’s position today.

3. As @ Bob said
   ” Does Zelinsky think it is moral to make people who do NOT live in the US pay for the Public Goods and Services that only people who live in the US use? (roads, bridges, hospitals, fire, police, schools, parks, medicare, medicaid, welfare etc.)” .

   I tnink a question like the one above SHOULD have been raised since it directly relates to the preamble of the discussion rather than how to make the IRS tax code more palatable for ex pats.

   I would actually have paid money to see Mr. Z answer the following question or any one close to it .

   You have a person whose ONLY CONNECTION to US is he/she happened to be born there, and left at very early age He/She pay their taxes,receive their income,receive services, from their permanent resident countries. They do not vote in US elections,they do not have US passports, they do not want nor receive US benefits. They have no interest in any IRS tax codes. They have no interest in extortion ,$2350 USD.
   And now the question :
   How do you, Mr Z, justify requiring this person to file IRS income returns and having his/her personal financial information passed on to the IRS ?