EmBee said (on Tricia’s post):
“Seems as good a place as any to put this …
Right now I’m feeling the need for some relief from the Brock bickering because it is making me weary and sad.
I am oldstock Brock and will continue to watch for updates on the progress of the Canadian trial (my heart is committed to that challenge) but I’ll try to leave the commenting to the newstock Brockers.
I sometimes wonder if there is some Tavistock-like undermining or manipulation going on here because the atmosphere has changed.
If the site managers ever feel they’ve had enough and elect to shut down Brock I would completely understand. However I want them to know how much I appreciate all the work they have done behind the scenes since all the way back to 2011. My how time flies and ever more quickly as you get older (read an article recently attempting to explain why this is so).
Anyway
I wish everyone well and thank everyone who has worked or is still working to make things right for those who are threatened by the US tax regime. I’m particularly mindful of those who passed away during the struggle.
The cause is just. It always will be.”
I’ve been away for a few days and returned to find this post from Stephen on the top of the headlines. I am deeply concerned about the loss of a number of our coolest heads and sanest voices, and now, I fear, we are losing yet another. As I said on the UN Complaint thread a few minutes ago, EmBee has been a stalwart and vocal supporter of many efforts that have been mounted in our COMMON fight against the injustices that have been leveled at the community of people whose origins, or the origins of those they love, are in the United States. This is a cause which we all SHARE. There is no “us” and “them”, at least there shouldn’t be on this blog. We are all “us” and, as such, should support and encourage each other in our respective struggles.
I too count myself among the “oldstock Brockers” although, for domestic reasons, I didn’t begin commenting until I’d already been “lurking” here for two years. I discovered Brock within a couple of days of its inception back in December 2011 six months after I had my OMG moment. Perhaps some of you can imagine what those first 6 months were like with help scattered about the internet but not in a single place where I, at least, felt safe. Brock saved my life.
Although I would now feel perfectly “safe” commenting on other forums my spouse does not share my confidence. So I read Brock regularly and will continue to do so because I have nowhere else to turn. But I, too, have been disturbed by the tone of condescension and unnecessary argument that so often finds its way into the comment stream. Brock should be a place where we all have each other’s backs, not a place where we get each other’s backs up.
EmBee, as I said on the UN thread, I want to thank you for your steadfast activism on behalf of our shared cause throughout the past many years. Your voice of reason is one we can’t afford to lose here. I hope you will stay in touch. I hope that Brockers will stop arguing for argument’s sake and that you will once again be happy to contribute your wise words.
I’ve been here from the beginning. Only purpose was to (a ) support the lawsuit- thanks Stephen, and (b). try to help others make reasonable choices based on my experience. Too bad IBS has been hijacked. Maybe it’s time for Maple sandbox again or ADCS. This site could use a drastic housecleaning. Most of the links bottom and sides are outdated.
Thanks, EmBee, for your comment (and to Stephen Kish for importantly putting it into its own post) and bringing forward Tricia’s still important post for us to read. Your sad words, EmBee, reflect similar feelings of many others still or formerly on this Brock site. This site that Peter Dunn has generously allowed to continue through the years is home to valuable information and history of our issues and a reminder of the support we once gave one another. As the Administrative Notice states — The Isaac Brock Society is (or was) a website, an open forum to discuss the issues of United States citizenship, extra-territorial taxation, FBAR, and FATCA…
I am now in my mid-70’s and have gone down unexpected paths in my and my family’s lives since the start of this site. I continue to attempt putting my remaining life decisions in better order for the children I passed onto potential USC consequences. I was part of Brock as I wanted some others new to it all to learn from my mistakes. I too have grown weary of what I read here most days.
I join you in your gratitude to all who joined forces for the start of the Isaac Brock Society and those who have contributed their expertise and time to continue through the years. That includes all that your wisdom has lent us, the readers, EmBee!
What I now hate to see is the repetitive negative bickering which, to me, seems to taint all we still have (or wish) to accomplish.
Who cases if it goes away. All is lost You have to either quit the USA if you are on the outside or if like me quit ‘foreign’ anything if you are in the USA. It’s just their rules you have to live by.
I would like to say that IBS has been essential to my sanity and to getting my head straight about the whole mess that we’re all in. My deep gratitude to the many people here who have advised me, and all of us. I come back to look once or twice a week, mainly to check for new top-level posts, any new news in the “Media and blogs” thread, and especially for any progress in the lawsuit. IBS remains a great resource if you trim away the recent fat.
My apologies if I have contributed to any of the negativity that has descended upon these forums. I just couldn’t stand the blather, sniping, and repetitive remarks which have grown like a fungus over every single forum (even the petitions thread! My goodness!). For my own sanity, I can’t be bothered to read the comments anymore, though this thread spoke to my heart.
Thank you to EmBee, Tricia, Stephen, and Peter, and to the many others who built this place. Meanwhile I will remain an occasional lurker. Cheers.
From the beginning, you chose the wrong solution to the problem. You and I mean the royal you, not individually, The U.S. is never going to change the tax code to exempt someone just because they live abroad and here is why. They like complications and are abetted by an industry that grew up to fill out tax returns. Every attempt to simplify a tax return gives them a chance to add another form and be paid by the taxpayer to show them how important they are and just how big the tax preparation industry has grown.
I have told Isaac Brock Associates about how they should have collected money, hired a lobbyist, who would tell the head of The Ways and Means Committee, in the only language they understand, contributions. I know it sounds like a bribe and to us honest folks it is but to a congressman it is how they act. paul Ryan retired this year as a speaker and that was a come down from Ways and Means where he made the big bucks. the Marxist Income tax was unconstitutional until they did the same thing I told you to do. The simply changed the constitution to fit the Manifesto. and the only way we will ever win is if we change it back to the way the founders meant it to be. A national sales tax collected at the point of sale. Not a Value added tax, but a plain old sales tax of approximately 23% on every sale ever made within the border of the U.S. Read Neal Boortz’s book on ”The FairTax. Simplify all our loves, get on Board and help yourself and the rest of us.
I dont know what happened, but I suspect that maybe it has to do with the general anxiety involved which can make people go at each other instead of the real opponent. All of this is/was so stressful. And maybe all has been done and said, and we just have to await the outcome of the trial? That waiting is anxiety-ridden as well.
I still lurk, I just dont have anything more to add. Maybe it is hard to keep a website afloat without a constant news stream?
Brock is in the middle of a major mission and that is to see the ADCS lawsuit through to its conclusion.
In regards to highjacking threads, I was quite interested in advancing the argument and comments about the post on if (and on what basis) there should be a lawsuit against Canada for its Canadian-US Tax Treaty. Then comments quickly went to the usual of ignore it all etc.
May I suggest that moderators consider warning / suspending for a period / suspending from commenting on particular posts or further commenting or suspending particular offenders. It all would involve more legwork on the part of moderators and some of it may be limited by the features available. This may then favour action that involves the least effort and that could be warning/suspension. Maybe put it to a vote here.
Defeatism posts are not helpful and should be discouraged in posting guidelines.
That could be its own post with implementation before we get to the next stage of the ADCS lawsuit.
@ JC,
One step we’ve taken recently is we’ve installed a move comment function to keep certain threads focused. We don’t intend to quash all thread drift (it can be a good thing and relevancy can be a nebulous value judgement), but in some cases, particularly due to the nature of some threads, it’s truly counter-productive.
We are taking everybody’s comments about the site under consideration. A person can also contact a moderator directly by e-mail about this and such e-mail will be forwarded to the entire board for discussion.
Thanks Pacifica. An example of what I meant- there are links in the sidebar to events in 2013
The Brock website was an incredibly helpful resource to me several years ago when my spouse and I were trying to figure out what to do about our US citizenship (taxation) problem.
There isn’t much happening on the FATCA/US citizenship-based taxation front right now. Many of us, I think, are simply waiting to learn the verdict in the most recent leg of the Charter case.
In the absence of anything substantive to discuss, I suspect most of us are continuing on with our other lives. I believe there’s a saying to the effect, “If you don’t have anything intelligent to say, don’t say anything.” Most regulars here, I believe, follow this adage.
The problem, I think, is the one or two who don’t (they’ve been pointed out by others). On a daily basis, they seem to speak for no other purpose than hearing themselves speak and in the process derail, bury, and hijack topics. Threads which should be as concise as possible (eg, consulate reports) end up unnecessarily long and difficult for visitors to navigate through.
Perhaps it’s time for a Spring cleaning at Brock. Spring cleaning could include a review of the rules by the moderators (including adding new rules if considered helpful) and consideration of a new format for the website (eg wiki plus forum as well as an edit button for the mistakes I’ve undoubtably made typing out this post! :))
Many of us have adapted to the CBT/FATCA situation in our own ways, we’ve now had years to do so.
BC_Doc sums it up perfectly. And I can certainly imagine that there is nothing like the urgency and excitement and camaraderie of the early days on IBS. The situation has stabilized, and knowledge and experience about the situation is widely available.
Nevertheless people still comment. The site is alive. And anyone coming here in a state of panic and ignorance will be treated to viewpoints not easily heard elsewhere. They will come away with the sense that maybe they should ignore the whole thing, etc. There is a lot of whining on every post about how we should stay on subject and not go straight to “ignore it” or “they can’t do anything to you anyway” and such. Yet this is an essential piece of knowledge which professionals will NOT give. But they will also get specific answers to their questions. They will be able to bitch and moan along with others. It’s therapeutic. You wonder what to do, you ask questions, you get provocative answers of all sorts, you can bounce your thoughts back and forth and then decide for yourself.
As a physician, with many IBS (irritable bowel syndrome!) patients, I often wonder what I am really doing to help. I’m not curing them, I’m not diagnosing anything new, and they often continue to suffer. Yet they come back and are happy to see me. I listen, I understand, I make sure we don’t miss cancer or other conditions, and I give them the occasional advice on how to manage. And it turns out that what I’m doing really helps.
This site really HELPS!
People come here to vent, to learn, to listen. It helps a great deal. Oldstock Brockers may not feel it, but you are still being incredibly helpful!!
I also find that comments are generally thoughtful and articulate, often witty. Sure, some people comment a lot, and we always wonder when Wilton Tidwell will come along to remind us of the horrors of the income tax and communism. But that’s a bit like family, isn’t it? Uncle Wilton, will he be over this Sunday? What nuance of the flat tax will he invent this time? He’s not alone, but he’s the one we feel we can poke fun at easily.
Those of you complaining about the comments here, jeez, do you read comments elsewhere? The venom, the stupidity, the spelling? In contrast IBS is indeed very civilized in my humble opinion!
I’ve said it before, the site is pretty cool as it is. Shut it down and it’d be a HUGE loss of resources and therapy, and news. Change it completely, modernize it, moderate it, censor it or whatever, and sit back and hear people complain about that too.
So, thank you to the initiators, the oldstock Brockers, and so forth. Respect and thoughts to those that have passed, indeed. And thank you to the faithful commenters, digressers, post writers, etc.
Cheers!
@BC_Doc, as a divergence to this thread, IMO, there is lots going on that does not get reported here. If you think not much is going on I believe then you are not on Facebook or Twitter.
Goings on:
*Monte Silver (raising funds for legal fight against Transition Tax and GILTI) claims “temporary and 1 permanent relief from the US Treasury in one year.”
*Lawsuit in France
*Just heard of interest in getting French style lawsuit in Switzerland.
*27 March: members of Dutch parliament met the American ambassador to discuss #FATCA
*Solomon Yue says: That is why Congressman Holding/@ExpatriationLaw/I are hoping that #TFFAAA2019 will be introduced on April 15: 1) it is a tax date & 2) we can use it for our joint presentation in London during the week of April 22. Only hope!!!
Democrats Abroad: https://www.democratsabroad.org/taxation_news
Laura Snyder (Brocker I believe!) has been appointed to the IRS TAS speaking for international taxpayers.
ADCS lawsuit progressing (not derailed!)
‘Accidental Americans’ in France file discrimination lawsuit
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-us/accidental-americans-in-france-file-discrimination-lawsuit-idUSKCN1R825K?fbclid=IwAR2gOIwO-lpNBYvi_UqxIgVktQwKjQ4XOGO6L-MuC9ZrzHJgK92UfpylyW0
Early on there was hope that the Canadians would set the precedents and help roll back the over-regulation globally. The ADCS lawsuit will be a blockbuster. Yet looks like the Europeans are leading on different fronts.
@Embee, I would miss your voice if you were to stop commenting. Many’s the time you made me laugh in the middle of the night with your songs and parodies. You and others at IBS helped me make it through some very tough days, and months that wore into years before I could shed the US burden and the FBAR fears. I extricated myself with help of different kinds from all the people here.
I don’t comment much, and tend to skim over a lot of comments recently, but still visit regularly to see what is new and like you are committed to continue to support and follow the ADCS lawsuit, and hope someday to see the UN response to our complaint.
It is true that it is easy for me as merely a reader and not a mod or someone doing the heavy lifting, but I still think IBS has much to benefit those many out there who still don’t know of the issues.
Just the other day I recommended it to someone who had been caught up in all this back in 2011, became compliant with much duress, considered relinquishing or renouncing, put it off, and now is pretty certain that renouncing is their only and best course of action at this point in their life. And another younger relative might follow suit.
So we don’t know what good ripples are still going forth.
Take care, best wishes, and thank you for all the many pithy and witty comments you’ve shared with us over the years. I benefited greatly and am forever grateful to you and all the others…..
Will continue to be look for your moniker here and hope I will still see it from time to time ….
New York Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2019/03/27/world/europe/27reuters-france-us.html
Hi all…….old stock brocker know yours truly. Agree with Fred and BC Doc………..
Once you have gotten over it……you settle on with your life having carved out a path. I “know” what these fine two individuals have done and they “know” what I have done. Guess what the path is workable and all are happy.
I check in twice a month to see if there is an update but not much to really say.
Thankful for all the help and hope I contributed something.
I am distressed. I have taken a back seat over the last year or two. I am so sorry to see EmBee, Calgary and other old Brockers feeling down. I came to this site to seek sanity in a crazy world and to lobby and assist in my own little way the fight against destruction of freedom and the sovereignty of Nations. Thank you.
I also think that negative comments, as anxiety inducing as they may be, are important too, because we have to view ALL sides of the story. Without this, Isaac Brock would become irrelevant too. Gathering information is also about hearing things we don’t want to hear. Fact of life, isn’t it? But I still have hope for the success of our lawsuits everywhere, because injustice just plain has to be fought.
New articles should be posted for each of JC’s links. Of course it’s a big job so we can’t complain if no one volunteers.
I’m struggling to put into words the gratitude I feel for your work on IBS. It has made so much difference to many. To me it was a lifesaver to be able to share the agony of the situation with others who understood it. You gave hope, and practical help, and understanding and courage. Thank you so very, very much.
It would be wonderful if it could continue, but I know how it is to be weary and exhausted…, and you can only give so much. Please at least know that we’re incredibly grateful to you.
With very best wishes, thanks, and hope .
In the good old days there were 10-15 contributions a week–by virtue of quantity their contributions were of varied political perspectives.Anti-government and anti big brother were typical thees. Spirited but respectable comments, And a strong Canadia anti-American tilt which was irritating to many US “expats”.
There was a bit of turbulence here and there.
There was no censorship…it was self-moderated.
Contributors have faded away but have not been replaced with new
Many have given up hope that their governments will remove themselves from their personal business, as the trend of governments is to consume.
The Ottoman empire only receded, as did the British empire and the German empire. Their influences only increased even though their territories shrunk. The U.S. empire shows no signs of shrinking.
It took 500 years to shrink the Ottoman empire. Perhaps the surveillance state and FATCA will not disappear sooner. For it to disappear, it will take a generation-bridging cultural effort. Teach your children well. Brock fulfills that end—if the DNA of freedom can live on.
Re: There was no censorship…it was self-moderated.”
Just for the record, as a mod here. We have had to pull comments since the beginning – not many, but like any website we occasionally get some really weird stuff here. But generally people have been exceptionally self-moderating here compared to other sites, which always impressed me because a lot of people here were under extreme stress at the time of writing.
I want to say how grateful I was to find this site in 2014. I had been lurking since June 2014. I carefully read all the posts but I didn’t see one at the time that dwelt with my situation. I was very guilty of hijacking a thread. I was “I am Canada, Hear Me Roar Mr. President.” No one was talking about signing authorities at the time. I was filled with absolute fear and anxiety over my situation. I sign on (7) bank account, six of which were a lawyer’s trust account. I knew we’d get a letter about each of those accounts. I knew I could get compliant, but the FBAR. I just about puked every time I thought about telling my employer about the FBAR. Neither my husband or I slept much. So many people “old Brockers” were gracious and kind to me even though I most certainly hi-jacked the thread. Especially Tricia who exchanged emails with me. I would have like to have participated in the law suit but my husband not so much. I would hate to see the sight cease to exist. I know that in Canada the banks have not gone after some like Europe, but I think it’s still relevant for those stumbling on this now. People do come late to the “party” and I was one of them.