In order to keep the comments on Stephen’s post on topic, please direct your comments regarding Barbara’s comment, to this post.
Barbara says
December 18, 2018 at 12:18 am (Edit)
@BB: “We need to get people coming back to Brock.”
First step: how lovely it would be if someone actually moderated the forums and simply culled the repetitive and incessant chatter on some of the (formerly) useful threads. Many of the most essential threads have turned into a free-for-all which veer way off topic, raking over the same-old-same-old coals that have been raked over in every one of the other popular threads. It’s become so that I don’t even come to IBS much anymore. I check for new top-level posts and anything new on the “Current Media and Articles” thread and skip the rest of the bla-bla-bla because I’ve read it all so many times before.
Sorry to be so negative. When I first joined IBS a couple years ago, it was a clean, mean source of wisdom. I wonder how I’d feel if I joined now, with so much of the useful discussion buried under so much steamy hot air. I wish there were a separate thread called “The IBS Pub” where all the windy conversations can cheerfully continue, while those who simply need clarity about renunciation, etc., don’t have to comb through page after page of blather to find the few nuggets.
I still very strongly support the principles here, and the actions of the brave souls who put their time, money and lives on the line for the rest of us, and therefore I am happy to offer financial support.
**************
Thanks.
Once upon a time there were a lot of scared Canadians who were born in USA. However, since the Canadian banks are not forcing Canadians to reveal their US birthplace as was originally feared by many would happen, there is less need for Brock. That, not the boring, repetitive comments is the reason for less traffic here.
Patricia Moon:
“If what you are saying were the only true aspect, then we wouldn’t have the complaints about the comments about Hitler, slaves and the like.”
With respect, I merely expressed emphatic agreement with Annie’s comment, viz.:
“Another way to look at the reduction in site visitors is that many of these people have found resolutions to their situations and moved on. If less people feel the need for support from Brock, this is a good thing not a bad thing!”
Complaints about comments mentioning Hitler, slaves, and “the like” (?) need to be addressed elsewhere. I don’t make them.
This site is at least alive. The well is sometimes full and other times may go dry.. Don’t tamper with it. I agree with some of those who find it quite adequate .
@Plaxy
My comment concerned this part of Annie’s comment:
I was referencing an extreme form of comment that does drive people away. We definitely heard a lot of it during the fundraising time. It is true that comments affect the site. I was not at all saying you made such comments.
I believe I acknowledged the second part of her comment concerning people leaving because they solved their issue. I could not determine what part of her comment you were supporting.
I am curious why no one seems to care about the people who are bothered by the comments? Why no one addresses my question about why is it so difficult to give some effort to stay on topic? I am not kidding or speaking hypothetically. There are a lot of people who are truly bothered by the extent of it.
Patricia Moon:
“. I could not determine what part of her comment you were supporting.”
I don’t know why there would be any difficulty determining what I was responding to, given that I quoted what I was responding to (twice) and my comment consisted of just two words (“Hear hear!”)
Here it is again:
and here’s a link:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2018/12/18/moderation-at-brock/comment-page-1/#comment-8547448
Here we go, down the rabbit hole.
@plaxy
Have you ever heard of the term “picayune”?
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/picayune
I am one of those who is truly bothered by the comments. Not the Hitler references, not the slavery remarks, not the endless reminders about “only the US and Eritrea”, not the relentless near-identical comments about identity theft years and years and years ago and Japanese citizenship/banking issues (sorry, someone has to say it) and (thankfully less so now) the Fair Tax. I can skim past such things if they are served in moderate helpings. But it’s the sheer onslaught of such commentary that is spoiling the party for me.
For me, the headline posts are important, but the most USEFUL threads for new visitors, and for me even now, as I still navigate the waters of compliance and renunciation, were the FATCA and Renunciation threads, in which the comments are the whole point of the thread. Used to be someone would post a question, and get five pages of thoughtful, detailed and useful replies and some well-mannered on-topic arguments. Now you have to wade through 25 esoteric, argumentative or off-topic comments, usually by the same handful of authors, for every useful comment. That’s why I feel this site needs sprucing up.
Sure, some Canadians may have dropped out. Some people may have renounced and feel they don’t need to come back. For that very reason, the site needs to adapt, just a little. “Don’t tamper with it” is the first step on the road to irrelevance.
And on that pleasant note, I wish y’all a Merry One.
BB: I agree, my comment was insignificant, but the fact that many have been able to resolve their situation is not insignificant IMO.
It’s good news (well, not exactly news, but welcome all the same).
That’s what I was enthusiastically agreeing with. Off topic, no doubt. 🙂
Merry Christmas to all and may 2019 bring real progress for Americans abroad.
I’ve tried to comment less, but I can’t hold this one back.
I love this site, and I love it as it is. I’ve been coming here for, I think, 5 years. I’ve found comments to be a great way to get a feel for the general mood. In my opinion (I have commented on this before) the comments are overall exceptionally moderate, thoughtful and articulate (in fact I cannot think of a more civilized place in all my internet travels). I don’t mind that things go “off topic” sometimes, or often. There is no other place that can help you bounce ideas off others and get immediate, varied, thoughtful and useful answers; it’s OK to have to navigate some provocation and some playful digressions. If I cannot find precise information buried somewhere I just ask and someone provides it. I’ve never felt that the site was diluted or unusable. I’ve come back again and again and again (and again) because I was addicted to the comments and the subjects alike. I cannot remember truly shocking comments or comments that made me think “hey, I’m not coming back here”. However I can remember many instructive, well-written ones, and I can remember lot’s of humor and common sense.
For many subjects, structured posts are not enough. Only by having the anonymous freewheeling never-ending “chatter” found here can one forge one’s own feeling and idea of what one should do. I just don’t know how I could have gotten a feel for all this without everybody here going “off subject”, or repeating their views and stories. Besides, it’s easy to scroll through and pick what you read.
If anything, the chatter is a sign of a lively and successful site. That’s very precious, and I’d greatly hesitate to change. “On ne change pas une équipe qui gagne” feels like an appropriate saying at this point.
Barbara says: “Sure, some Canadians may have dropped out. Some people may have renounced and feel they don’t need to come back. For that very reason, the site needs to adapt, just a little. “Don’t tamper with it” is the first step on the road to irrelevance.”
I don’t get it. Many people who are done with this issue will NOT come back. How is adapting going to get them back? In fact, should the day of RBT come, the site will be irrelevant, and so be it. Perhaps the repeated stern admonishments to “stay on subject” do more to drive people away than the comments themselves. I certainly understand nostalgia for the early days — when the community was smaller? Isn’t there a contradiction between wanting more traffic and lamenting too many comments?
Another reason for decreasing traffic may simply be the life of this subject. First you learn about the problem, you get all worked up… then you find IBS. And you learn to cope with the situation. After a while (a few years) no matter what happens, focus will shift. Either you’ve renounced, or you’ve come to live with it. There was always going to be a peak number of people who would come here repeatedly. I have had times when I came several times a day, and now I’m down to a couple times a week. It has nothing to do with the site itself. It’s just that life goes on, I file my forms and have lots of other things to think about, I worry less, the IRS has not come knocking, banks seem to be leaving me alone, etc. At this point most people who should know about this already do and have already decided to come here, or not.
Finally, the comments are greatly therapeutic, for those who write them, and those who read them.
Merry Christmas and a sincere heartfelt thank you to all, naysayers, optimists, pessimists, flat taxers, the compliant, the non-compliant, DA, RO, on-subject commenters, digressers, moderators, etc, etc.
“Merry Christmas to all”
Hey! Canada is allowing Muslim refugees to enter who are rejected by the US. Also don’t forget that Americans abroad have to hide their US citizenship the same way as non-Christians in some countries before and during World War II had to hide their non-Christianness.
Now that should put an end to the discussion of moderation at Brock.
[/snarkiness]
And the US government is closing down for xmas if Santa doesn’t bring the wart a wall…
Ho ho ho 🙂
Rabbit holes, anyone?
@plaxy
Why doesn’t he go for drones to scout his border much cheaper and more effective?
Thank you for IBS!
When I got the OMG moment, I turned to the internet and found this community. If it weren’t for the comments this site would be a bore because the subject is a bore. Personally I hate paperwork but I enjoy reading others perspectives that are in similar positions. As Fred (B) says its therepeutic to some of us who do not get the chance to speak with others in our situations (because we live outside the country we were born).
When I see comments that I don’t agree with or don’t want to read, I skip over them. When people need information they seek it out and find it or continue looking. Folks who find Isaac Brock Society website will look for what pertains to them. This place is a treasure trove of incredible information, please leave it be and know that you help so many people in the world!
Re: moderation and/or changes to this WordPress site- just my opinion but I do know WP and it would take more than $50USD of someone’s time to look at the back-end. The website has been using the theme for many years, its dated but it functions well.
Let JetPack do its moderation keeping you spam free and let the posts do their good work. Moderation takes time and it can “eat at ya” and WP takes time then becomes “a job”. Make sure your IT person keeps up with all the updates on WP, ALL of the installed themes on your server as well as the plug-ins (active or not!). And that should be it. Maybe change your domain to httpS but that costs money as well.
One more thing about “your numbers”. It they’re lowered it could be a reflection of algo based ranking in searches, and algos in f-book, twit and the like. Face it this is not exactly a subject our oppressors want us talking about. Just a thought, but no worries people WILL still find you.
Thank you IBS and thank you Canadian friends Happy Holidays and have an excellent New Year
Simply, things changed…..the originators moved on.
But yes, keeping the comments directed towards the article has never been the strength of the reader. It would be smart to have constant reminders
And, the left versus right polarization has always been there.
But remember, when you read the comments below an MSM article, there are hundreds of them going in every direction…..at MSM it’s only a small portion that read comments. Brock commenters read each other.
Though comments aren’t moderated, thread-starting is very tightly controlled, – the default position, with blogging software.
Which inevitably leads to a limited number of threads.
Some topics, such as renunciation, are of interest to many and attract a lot of comments – most of which are indeed on topic for the very broadly-stated heading. Such very long threads may not be easy for lurkers and newcomers to navigate to find already-posted answers to their questions.
A narrower topic, with a heading such as “How long does it take to get an appointment in {Toronto/Zurich/Paris}?” would likely draw fewer comments, but the downside would be a greatly increased number of threads, which can also be difficult to navigate if searching for already-posted information.
Pros and cons.
Perhaps an effective way to cut down the chatter and increase the quality of the comments could be rather than throw a random half related question out there to solicit an answer that requires a ridiculous amount of research for someone else to correctly answer, would be to research the answer yourself and come back to the group with some real and valuable information.
Actually, it seems to me the unmoderated-comments format – people having conversations – has been serendipitously and accidentally quite effective (for some participants and possibly for some lurkers) in challenging the scare tactics of the US tax advice industry, and unpicking their lies.
In particular, it’s gradually become clear that the IRS, far from “coming after” US-born citizens of other countries, forcing the burdens of US citizenship on them, confiscating their retirement savings and threatening our children, actually can’t enforce CBT extraterritorially at all.
It makes a huge difference to the way people see the problem. Opens the door, for some.
Hearing about what other people think, what some have done and not been damaged, and so on.
Lots of digression and repetition also of course. That’s life.
Fred(B) said:
“For many subjects, structured posts are not enough. Only by having the anonymous freewheeling never-ending “chatter” found here can one forge one’s own feeling and idea of what one should do. I just don’t know how I could have gotten a feel for all this without everybody here going “off subject”, or repeating their views and stories.”
Hear hear! 🙂
Over now though, probably. Once the site becomes the topic, the conversation tends to die.
I know, I know. 🙂
I’m off.
@BB
I don’t think one needs to sound a thunderous gavel everytime the conversation strays. In fact I gind the tone of that gavel quite offensive.The idea of changing the format runs risks as well. I have always found the exchanges here useful and informative.
Two gavels are twice as loud.
That’s two gavels too many. As far as I know, this is the only site that speaks to all the strips of diaspora be they whose who wish to retain to those who wish to divest to those who have no interest in either.The conversations even the rambling ,as you call it , inadvertently touch upon some very relevant material.. You may tire of it does not that others do.
https://xkcd.com/810/