31 thoughts on “Independence Day attempt in European Parliament–the Empire lives well”
The EU don’t want to deal with this, they want the few Americans impacted to either renounce, get the system changed via their own political representatives, or go home.
Or did.
I think the commission is increasingly aware that these people are EU citizens and long term residents, in the tens of thousands, their lives are being turned upside down by punitive treatment by a foreign nation and the member states are complicit in their persecution.
They will have to act, there is now too much awareness and pressure for them not to.
They could start by actually questioning their own acceptance of the USA being able to tax these people in the first place.
I listened tip the whole debate. It appears that the prevailing sentiment, with a few exceptions, is: FATCA is a done deal and there’s nothing we can do about it, and if it’s not reciprocal, it’s because the USA is different than us and we can’t change them. What an unimpressive, cowardly group of do-nothings this commission seems to be. Let’s see how the vote goes. But will a vote in favor of the resolution, other than being a symbolic victory for accidental Americans, lead to actual, decisive action? I am not counting on it.
“…actual, decisive action?”
Such as?
War of 1812 fought over this
“Impressments, that is the practice of forcing American sailors to join the British Navy was among the most important sources of conflict between the two nations. Driven in part by trade with Europe, the American economy grew quickly during the first decade of the nineteenth century, creating a labor shortage in the American shipping industry. In response, pay rates for sailors increased and American captains recruited heavily from the ranks of British sailors. As a result, around 30 percent of sailors employed on American merchant ships were British. As a republic, the Americans advanced the notion that people could become citizens by renouncing their allegiance to their home nation. To the British, a person born in the British Empire was a subject of that empire for life, a status they could not change. The British Navy was embroiled in a difficult war and was unwilling to lose any of its labor force. In order to regain lost crewmen, the British often boarded American ships to reclaim their sailors. Of course, many American sailors found themselves caught up in these sweeps and “impressed” into the service of the British Navy. Between 1803 and 1812, some 6,000 Americans suffered this fate. The British would release Americans who could prove their identity but this process could take years while the sailor endured harsh conditions and the dangers of the Royal Navy.”
Mark Twain – dual US/EU citizens can renounce US citizenship but the cost of course is high – $2350. The Resolution “Calls on the Council to mandate the Commission to open negotiations with the US on an EU-US FATCA agreement, with a view to ensuring the full reciprocal exchange of information, upholding the fundamental principles of EU law, as well as the Payment Accounts Directive, and allowing EU ‘accidental Americans’ to relinquish their unwanted US citizenship on a no‑fees, no‑filings, no‑penalties basis;
Is this what people have in mind in hoping that the adoption of the Resolution by the EU Parliament might lead to “actual, decisive action”?
Because the desired action seems to be up to the US to deliver – not the EU.
The AA collective have accomplished amazing progress. The PETI Committee has produced an excellent report documenting FATCA’s injustices, and has drawn up this excellent Resolution which if adopted might actually lead to the Commission raising some of these issues with the US.
Bravo, AAs, and bravo, PETI Committee! Fingers crossed!
The decisive action I’m hoping for is for the EU to, at a minimum, jointly put a halt to FATCA, refuse to forward data to the IRS, and tell European FIs to stop collecting data on US citizens, until the USA reciprocates, which of course the USA never will. And that any 30% withholding imposed on European FIs will be responded to tit-for-tat against American banks, same as trade sanctions. The point being that the USA can no longer unilaterally impose its laws on or inside other countries. That would be the minimum I’d dream of happening.
But while several speakers were unequivocal in calling for bold action, many others were filled with blather about “studies to be released three years after bla bla bla…” Sadly, my experience with governments everywhere is that almost every time, when decisive action is called for, what they end up delivering is promises to “monitor the situation”, “set up a new committee” and to “further study the relevant matters”. Am I being too cynical?
The decisive action I’m hoping for is for the EU to, at a minimum, jointly put a halt to FATCA, refuse to forward data to the IRS, and tell European FIs to stop collecting data on US citizens, until the USA reciprocates, which of course the USA never will.
Of course it won’t. And EU law requires Member States to
require their banks to collect data on accountholders who are tax-resident in more than one country. As long as EU-resident USCs are treated by the US as tax-resident in the US, their accounts will be treated by EU banks as reportable to the US, under not only FATCA but also under DAC/CRS (Wider Approach).
Again, only the US can change this. The EC can’t and doesn’t want to. The EC loves AEOI and just wants the US to reciprocate.
The French legal suit, if it gets as far as the ECJ, could conceivably result in a court ruling that would require changes to FATCA. Should come to the French courts next year.
“Am I being too cynical?”
Over-hopeful, perhaps. I think that governments (and certainly the EU, which would dearly like to shift taxation from a national competence to Commission level) don’t necessarily mind handing over their citizens’ information if they see it as in their interest, and legal, to do so.
MEPs want to open negotiations on an EU-US FATCA agreement
A resolution on the adverse effects of the US Foreign Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) on EU citizens and “accidental Americans” was endorsed by plenary on Thursday.
resolution states that the US federal law FATCA, which requires EU financial institutions to report detailed information on identities and assets held by presumed “US persons” to US authorities, might lead to the arbitrary exposure and punishment of both EU-US dual citizens and “accidental Americans”.
The term “accidental Americans” refers to individuals who by accident of birth inherited US citizenship, but who maintain no ties to the country, having never lived, worked or studied there and who do not hold US social security numbers.
MEPs say that the information that EU financial institutions require, under the threat of franchise-destroying penalties in the US, could constitute a breach of EU data protection rules and fundamental rights (B). The FATCA law was originally introduced to stop US citizens evading taxes, since they could be subject to tax filing obligations, even if they have never resided in the America.
The resolution
calls on the Commission and EU governments to present a joint EU approach to FATCA in order to adequately protect the rights of European citizens and “accidental American’s”,
calls on EU governments to mandate the European Commission to open negotiations with the US on an EU-US FATCA agreement, which should cover the possibility for EU “accidental Americans” to relinquish their unwanted US citizenship on a no-fees, no-filings, no-penalties basis,
calls on EU countries to ensure the full and correct transposition of the EU Payment Accounts Directive, and to guarantee the right for all EU citizens to have access to a payment account with basic features irrespective of their nationality,
stresses the importance of providing an adequate level of protection of personal data transferred to the US under FATCA, in full compliance with national and EU data protection law, and
calls on the European Commission to conduct a full impact assessment of FATCA and the US extraterritorial practice of citizen-based taxation (CBT) on EU citizens and EU financial institutions.
The text, tabled by the European Parliament’s Petitions Committee, was approved by 470 votes to 43, with 26 abstentions.
Quote
The Chair of the European Parliament’s Petitions Committee, Cecilia Wikström (ALDE, SE), said: “The affected citizens have for too long been neglected by the member states and EU institutions to please the US government. It is therefore high time for the European Commission and the European Council to recognise the problems and start addressing them. As chair of the Petitions Committee, I therefore urge the Commission and the Council to present a joint EU approach to FATCA, and to open negotiations with the US on an EU-US FATCA agreement, ensuring the full reciprocal exchange of information and compliance with relevant EU laws.”
“approved by 470 votes to 43, with 26 abstentions”
🙂 🙂 🙂
Congratulations, AAs!!!
Congratulations AAs in the EU, and shame on Canada for continuing its fight against AA’s in Canada!
Our dear Sophie in’t Veld … such a feisty and very much appreciated presentation. Bless her heart!
WONDERFUL news!!!! Congratulations to the French contingent for their hard work getting this before the EU Parliament. This is historic – the first time any government has officially resolved to push back against FATCA and US extra-territorial taxation. Bravo to Jules, Fabien and all of our compatriots in Europe who have helped to bring this about. We will all join with you in any way we can to make sure this resolution becomes successful action.
Perhaps I should allow at least 24 hours of unbridled celebration before being critical but I am concerned that the resolution only goes so far as suggesting that access to a “payment account with basic features” should be guaranteed to every EU citizen. They should be free to open any damned account they wish!
That being said, I am truly thrilled for this huge step in the right direction.
Yes, BB – – shame on Canada!
“the first time any government has officially resolved to push back against FATCA and US extra-territorial taxation.”
I wish. The EU Parliament has adopted a resolution calling on the Council (Heads of Member States) and the Commission to try to get the US to (a) allow cheaper renunciation for AAs and (b) move to full reciprocity. The Council and Committee have not agreed, and no IGA partner government has agreed.
So – outcome uncertain. But certainly a great achievement by the AAs and PETI Committee. US-born EU citizens are no longer to be treated as criminals by teenage spotty bank clerks. 🙂
“I am concerned that the resolution only goes so far as suggesting that access to a “payment account with basic features” should be guaranteed to every EU citizen.”
Indeed. Unfortunately, that’s all that EU law (the Payment Accounts Directive) guarantees. It’s next door to useless.
We were contacted by a reporter from Tax Analysts/Worldwide Tax Daily who asked if we had any comments about the news coming out of the EU. The following was sent to her, on behalf of the Isaac Brock Society as well as the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty:
“There are few countries that confer citizenship based only on birth in the country. There are only two countries (the United States and Eritrea) that impose “worldwide taxation” based only on citizenship. The United States is the ONLY country that does both.
The EU resolution is very welcome because it recognizes that the United States via FATCA coupled with “citizenship-based taxation” is imposing “worldwide taxation” on people who are “tax residents” of Europe and have no connection whatsoever with the United States. By using FATCA to enforce “worldwide taxation” on the citizen/residents of other countries, the United States is siphoning income from those countries directly to the United States. By imposing worldwide taxation directly on the residents of other countries, the United States is attacking the capital base of those countries and burdening the sovereignty of those countries. This outrageous and unjustifiable intrusion into the affairs of other nations must come to an end. Furthermore, the combination of FATCA and U.S. “citizenship-based taxation” has turned the citizen/residents of other nations into “second class” citizens in their home countries. In some cases, they are not even allowed to have basic bank accounts because and ONLY because they were born in the United States. These people are forced (at great expense) to renounce U.S. citizenship – a citizenship they never wanted and in many cases never even knew they had.
On a broader level, the EU resolution will be welcomed by Canada and other countries who are suffering the effects of U.S. extra-territorial laws (FATCA and “citizenship-based taxation”). All countries should support the EU resolution and all countries should work together to ensure that U.S. tax laws cannot extend to the “tax residents” of other countries.
These are the reasons that the “Alliance For The Defence of Canadian Sovereignty” (http://www.adcs-adsc.ca) has brought a “FATCA lawsuit” in the Federal Court of Canada to prevent the application of FATCA in Canada.
John Richardson, LL.B., J.D.”
Ah -love Sophie. She really cuts through the smoke and mirrors. It is so irksome that the others always beat around the bush. Every country can make their own tax laws? It certainly was easy to tell Eritrea that their idea of taxation is unacceptable to other nations` residents. Bottom line: it is BLACKMAIL. America is abusing its financial power to make other nations` citizens pay up. It is and always will be about standing up to the heavyweight gorilla in the room. But HEY- Trump renegotiated just about every treaty America had- so why not have the EU renegotiate FATCA including all the bullshit IGAs as well? But they need people like Sophie on board to tell it like it is.
“It is so irksome that the others always beat around the bush.”
I didn’t hear any MEP speak against the Resolution. I may have missed something? I thought the support for the Resolution was quite striking, and believe it may suggest that parliamentary representatives in many nations (perhaps including some EU Member States) would show similar sympathy for AAs, given the chance. MEPs are in a somewhat unique position, in that regard – being less bound by “party discipline” than MPs in netional parliaments.
The Commission, as expected, expressed its known position (that there’s nothing the Commission can do because EU law is not being broken and taxation is a national competence and the Member States refused to mandate the Commission to negotiate a EU-wide agreement).
The Council, obviously, spoke in defence of its members. The Council speaks for the heads of the Member State governments – each of whom has signed up to FATCA/IGA.
@PatriciaMoon : A very nice letter overall. Minor quibble: The US also is laboring under the impression that it can foist its citizenship on people who have never set foot in the country and were *not* born there, e.g. children born outside the US but with US citizen parents.
As far as I have been able to ascertain, Uncle Sam still thinks these people should cough up.
Obviously such people are hard to identify unless they volunteer to get fleeced by getting a US passport or whatever.
@plaxy
Towards the begining, the second female speaker says that every country has the right to make its own taxation laws. Sophie got right on it saying that everybody opposed Eritrea trying to enforce the same type of law.
I dont know how many times Sophie has stated “this is bullshit” to the parliament members. The only reason that they wont stand up for the rights of their citizens are the banks.
“the second female speaker says that every country has the right to make its own taxation laws.”
Yep. She’s not an MEP. She’s speaking for the Council.
“the second female speaker says that every country has the right to make its own taxation laws.”
“the second female speaker says that every country has the right to make its own taxation laws.”
Every country has a right to set its own laws, but do we all keep quiet when another country implements laws that harm our residents?
What if the other country decides all people with ginger hair shall be US citizens and subject to US taxes? It’s their right?
What if that countries laws amount to a human rights abuse as the citizens of that country are no longer free to leave with being persecuted and discriminated against? It’s their right to do that?
The true impact of what the USA is doing here is still not widely understood by the high and mighty in governments and the EU, and this resolution can only help in this respect.
Nobody who fully understand what is going on here can simply dismiss this on the grounds that other countries have a right to set their own laws.
The USA should be getting exactly the same treatment as Eritrea got over this issue.
“the second female speaker says that every country has the right to make its own taxation laws.”
Every country has a right to set its own laws, but do we all keep quiet when another country implements laws that harm our residents?
She’s not an MEP. She was speaking for the Council.
Excellent letter from the Alliance! Thanks, John and Patricia!
The EU don’t want to deal with this, they want the few Americans impacted to either renounce, get the system changed via their own political representatives, or go home.
Or did.
I think the commission is increasingly aware that these people are EU citizens and long term residents, in the tens of thousands, their lives are being turned upside down by punitive treatment by a foreign nation and the member states are complicit in their persecution.
They will have to act, there is now too much awareness and pressure for them not to.
They could start by actually questioning their own acceptance of the USA being able to tax these people in the first place.
I listened tip the whole debate. It appears that the prevailing sentiment, with a few exceptions, is: FATCA is a done deal and there’s nothing we can do about it, and if it’s not reciprocal, it’s because the USA is different than us and we can’t change them. What an unimpressive, cowardly group of do-nothings this commission seems to be. Let’s see how the vote goes. But will a vote in favor of the resolution, other than being a symbolic victory for accidental Americans, lead to actual, decisive action? I am not counting on it.
“…actual, decisive action?”
Such as?
War of 1812 fought over this
“Impressments, that is the practice of forcing American sailors to join the British Navy was among the most important sources of conflict between the two nations. Driven in part by trade with Europe, the American economy grew quickly during the first decade of the nineteenth century, creating a labor shortage in the American shipping industry. In response, pay rates for sailors increased and American captains recruited heavily from the ranks of British sailors. As a result, around 30 percent of sailors employed on American merchant ships were British. As a republic, the Americans advanced the notion that people could become citizens by renouncing their allegiance to their home nation. To the British, a person born in the British Empire was a subject of that empire for life, a status they could not change. The British Navy was embroiled in a difficult war and was unwilling to lose any of its labor force. In order to regain lost crewmen, the British often boarded American ships to reclaim their sailors. Of course, many American sailors found themselves caught up in these sweeps and “impressed” into the service of the British Navy. Between 1803 and 1812, some 6,000 Americans suffered this fate. The British would release Americans who could prove their identity but this process could take years while the sailor endured harsh conditions and the dangers of the Royal Navy.”
https://courses.lumenlearning.com/suny-ushistory1ay/chapter/the-war-of-1812/
Mark Twain – dual US/EU citizens can renounce US citizenship but the cost of course is high – $2350. The Resolution “Calls on the Council to mandate the Commission to open negotiations with the US on an EU-US FATCA agreement, with a view to ensuring the full reciprocal exchange of information, upholding the fundamental principles of EU law, as well as the Payment Accounts Directive, and allowing EU ‘accidental Americans’ to relinquish their unwanted US citizenship on a no‑fees, no‑filings, no‑penalties basis;
Is this what people have in mind in hoping that the adoption of the Resolution by the EU Parliament might lead to “actual, decisive action”?
Because the desired action seems to be up to the US to deliver – not the EU.
The AA collective have accomplished amazing progress. The PETI Committee has produced an excellent report documenting FATCA’s injustices, and has drawn up this excellent Resolution which if adopted might actually lead to the Commission raising some of these issues with the US.
Bravo, AAs, and bravo, PETI Committee! Fingers crossed!
The decisive action I’m hoping for is for the EU to, at a minimum, jointly put a halt to FATCA, refuse to forward data to the IRS, and tell European FIs to stop collecting data on US citizens, until the USA reciprocates, which of course the USA never will. And that any 30% withholding imposed on European FIs will be responded to tit-for-tat against American banks, same as trade sanctions. The point being that the USA can no longer unilaterally impose its laws on or inside other countries. That would be the minimum I’d dream of happening.
But while several speakers were unequivocal in calling for bold action, many others were filled with blather about “studies to be released three years after bla bla bla…” Sadly, my experience with governments everywhere is that almost every time, when decisive action is called for, what they end up delivering is promises to “monitor the situation”, “set up a new committee” and to “further study the relevant matters”. Am I being too cynical?
Of course it won’t. And EU law requires Member States to
require their banks to collect data on accountholders who are tax-resident in more than one country. As long as EU-resident USCs are treated by the US as tax-resident in the US, their accounts will be treated by EU banks as reportable to the US, under not only FATCA but also under DAC/CRS (Wider Approach).
Again, only the US can change this. The EC can’t and doesn’t want to. The EC loves AEOI and just wants the US to reciprocate.
The French legal suit, if it gets as far as the ECJ, could conceivably result in a court ruling that would require changes to FATCA. Should come to the French courts next year.
“Am I being too cynical?”
Over-hopeful, perhaps. I think that governments (and certainly the EU, which would dearly like to shift taxation from a national competence to Commission level) don’t necessarily mind handing over their citizens’ information if they see it as in their interest, and legal, to do so.
Hot off the press!
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20180628IPR06837/meps-want-to-open-negotiations-on-an-eu-us-fatca-agreement
MEPs want to open negotiations on an EU-US FATCA agreement
A resolution on the adverse effects of the US Foreign Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) on EU citizens and “accidental Americans” was endorsed by plenary on Thursday.
“approved by 470 votes to 43, with 26 abstentions”
🙂 🙂 🙂
Congratulations, AAs!!!
Congratulations AAs in the EU, and shame on Canada for continuing its fight against AA’s in Canada!
Our dear Sophie in’t Veld … such a feisty and very much appreciated presentation. Bless her heart!
WONDERFUL news!!!! Congratulations to the French contingent for their hard work getting this before the EU Parliament. This is historic – the first time any government has officially resolved to push back against FATCA and US extra-territorial taxation. Bravo to Jules, Fabien and all of our compatriots in Europe who have helped to bring this about. We will all join with you in any way we can to make sure this resolution becomes successful action.
Perhaps I should allow at least 24 hours of unbridled celebration before being critical but I am concerned that the resolution only goes so far as suggesting that access to a “payment account with basic features” should be guaranteed to every EU citizen. They should be free to open any damned account they wish!
That being said, I am truly thrilled for this huge step in the right direction.
Yes, BB – – shame on Canada!
“the first time any government has officially resolved to push back against FATCA and US extra-territorial taxation.”
I wish. The EU Parliament has adopted a resolution calling on the Council (Heads of Member States) and the Commission to try to get the US to (a) allow cheaper renunciation for AAs and (b) move to full reciprocity. The Council and Committee have not agreed, and no IGA partner government has agreed.
So – outcome uncertain. But certainly a great achievement by the AAs and PETI Committee. US-born EU citizens are no longer to be treated as criminals by teenage spotty bank clerks. 🙂
“I am concerned that the resolution only goes so far as suggesting that access to a “payment account with basic features” should be guaranteed to every EU citizen.”
Indeed. Unfortunately, that’s all that EU law (the Payment Accounts Directive) guarantees. It’s next door to useless.
We were contacted by a reporter from Tax Analysts/Worldwide Tax Daily who asked if we had any comments about the news coming out of the EU. The following was sent to her, on behalf of the Isaac Brock Society as well as the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty:
John Richardson, LL.B., J.D.”
Ah -love Sophie. She really cuts through the smoke and mirrors. It is so irksome that the others always beat around the bush. Every country can make their own tax laws? It certainly was easy to tell Eritrea that their idea of taxation is unacceptable to other nations` residents. Bottom line: it is BLACKMAIL. America is abusing its financial power to make other nations` citizens pay up. It is and always will be about standing up to the heavyweight gorilla in the room. But HEY- Trump renegotiated just about every treaty America had- so why not have the EU renegotiate FATCA including all the bullshit IGAs as well? But they need people like Sophie on board to tell it like it is.
“It is so irksome that the others always beat around the bush.”
I didn’t hear any MEP speak against the Resolution. I may have missed something? I thought the support for the Resolution was quite striking, and believe it may suggest that parliamentary representatives in many nations (perhaps including some EU Member States) would show similar sympathy for AAs, given the chance. MEPs are in a somewhat unique position, in that regard – being less bound by “party discipline” than MPs in netional parliaments.
The Commission, as expected, expressed its known position (that there’s nothing the Commission can do because EU law is not being broken and taxation is a national competence and the Member States refused to mandate the Commission to negotiate a EU-wide agreement).
The Council, obviously, spoke in defence of its members. The Council speaks for the heads of the Member State governments – each of whom has signed up to FATCA/IGA.
@PatriciaMoon : A very nice letter overall. Minor quibble: The US also is laboring under the impression that it can foist its citizenship on people who have never set foot in the country and were *not* born there, e.g. children born outside the US but with US citizen parents.
As far as I have been able to ascertain, Uncle Sam still thinks these people should cough up.
Obviously such people are hard to identify unless they volunteer to get fleeced by getting a US passport or whatever.
@plaxy
Towards the begining, the second female speaker says that every country has the right to make its own taxation laws. Sophie got right on it saying that everybody opposed Eritrea trying to enforce the same type of law.
I dont know how many times Sophie has stated “this is bullshit” to the parliament members. The only reason that they wont stand up for the rights of their citizens are the banks.
“the second female speaker says that every country has the right to make its own taxation laws.”
Yep. She’s not an MEP. She’s speaking for the Council.
“the second female speaker says that every country has the right to make its own taxation laws.”
“the second female speaker says that every country has the right to make its own taxation laws.”
Every country has a right to set its own laws, but do we all keep quiet when another country implements laws that harm our residents?
What if the other country decides all people with ginger hair shall be US citizens and subject to US taxes? It’s their right?
What if that countries laws amount to a human rights abuse as the citizens of that country are no longer free to leave with being persecuted and discriminated against? It’s their right to do that?
The true impact of what the USA is doing here is still not widely understood by the high and mighty in governments and the EU, and this resolution can only help in this respect.
Nobody who fully understand what is going on here can simply dismiss this on the grounds that other countries have a right to set their own laws.
The USA should be getting exactly the same treatment as Eritrea got over this issue.
She’s not an MEP. She was speaking for the Council.
Excellent letter from the Alliance! Thanks, John and Patricia!