61 thoughts on “One More Time! TTFI Petition Seeks Signatures”
That may be the way it’s lining up.
The President is under perpetual IRS audit; the Secretary of the Treasury agreed during his nomination hearing that he would ensure the IRS complied with administrative regulations; and the putative new Commissioner, as you say, has a history of defending rich people against the IRS.
Showdown! (maybe)
From Mnuchin’s hearing:
Hatch:
16. Treasury Compliance with Administrative Law
There has been an unfortunate trend in recent decades suggesting that tax regulations are somehow not subject to the normal requirements of administrative law.
That trend has suggested that somehow tax regulations and other rules promulgated by the IRS are not subject to the same notice and comment period as other regulations by other federal agencies, that they are not subject to the same cost-benefit analysis as other federal regulations, that they are not subject to the same OMB Office of Regulatory Affairs Analysis as other federal regulations, and that they are not subject to the same Congressional Review Act requirements as other federal agencies.
The Supreme Court, in its 2011 Mayo decision, and the Tax Court, in its 2015 Altera decision, instructed the IRS that the IRS is not exempt from administrative law requirements. The IRS is subject to the same administrative law requirements as any other federal agency.
Can you assure me that you will make sure that IRS regulations, rules, and guidance comply with administrative law requirements?
Mnuchin:
If confirmed, I will ensure that the Treasury follows the requirements of administrative law, where applicable.
If there was a firm intention to bring out a “fix” bill in April and the IRS is resisting, it might be because of the fuss over the withholding tables.
As I understand it, the Republicans want the IRS to change the withholding straightaway so people see more money in their take-home pay in time to make them all vote Republican out of gratitude.
Whereas the IRS wants to change the withholding later, which would mean people end up paying more tax this year and might vote Democrat out of resentment. They would get bigger refunds next year, but that might be too late to hang onto Republican control of both houses.
“the putative new Commissioner, as you say, has a history of defending rich people against the IRS.”
That’s because rich people can afford lawyers.
Innocent people can’t afford lawyers so the IRS, DOJ, and courts help the IRS’s embezzlers keep what they stole from victims. Even when I perpetually demand an audit, they refuse. They know how to protect their secrets.
@SolomonYue 11h11 hours ago
There’ll be #TTFI text but we don’t know when. Tax Cuts & Jobs Act text was available 1 wk B4 the vote. We can expect the same. We welcome other groups 2 support #TTFI by signing our petition. But we can’t fix their issues in our bill. By overloading the X’mas tree we kill #TTFI.
Solomon Yue
@SolomonYue
13h13 hours ago
Replying to @HeidiHasz @JCDoubleTaxed and 13 others
Commitment is a 2-way street: we got a commitment 2 draft, introduce, score, & vote on a #TTFI bill b4 Easter recess while we r committed 2 provide air support w/ TTFI petitions. We want 2 beat our 2017 3K record w/ 10K this time: so no ticky no washy or no signature no complaint
“no ticky no washy”?
Jesus…
baffles me too. Yet I kind of get the idea.
It seems not only rude but unfair.
“Bring us the details of 10000 unknown individuals or nothing will happen.”
There seems to be a discordancy between this:
We initially expected that a tax reconciliation bill would be submitted in April 2018 to fix any issues with the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act that was passed at the end of 2017. However, it now appears that the IRS will not make any recommendations for ‘fixes’ until the end of 2018.
we got a commitment 2 draft, introduce, score, & vote on a #TTFI bill b4 Easter recess
The first implies that an April “fixes” bill (addressing CBT among other issues) was previously expected but now is not. This is consistent with Congressman Whatsisname’s comment following the passage of the tax reform bill.
The second implies that there is a commitment by unnamed politicians to draft, introduce, score and vote on a TTFI bill before the Easter recess, provided a large number of individuals sign the RO petition.
Drafting and introducing could be done by a willing Representative using RO’s proposal. RO could pay for scoring, as ACA did for their RBT plan. But how would it be brought to a vote? That would need the backing of the Ways and Means Committee – which quote 1 (above) implies no longer exists due to the IRS whipping out its pre-emptive strike “additional guidance” notice.
Doesn’t seem to fit together.
The “no ticky no washy” line is a really arcane reference to the old Chinese laundries. (No ticket, no wash.) If spoken, usually by your racist grandfather, it would done so in a fake Chinese accent with an exaggerated squint.
The same level of racialized caricature as, say, the Cleveland Indians logo. Not cool anymore. A pretty tone-deaf thing to tweet, but then, Republicans…
Also, sign the petition, but with a pseudonym if you prefer.
It is interesting to note IRS is resisting congress laws. But I thought Congress makes laws and all govt dept follows those laws. Is the IRS above Congress as we are made to believe ?
“The “no ticky no washy” line is a really arcane reference to the old Chinese laundries. (No ticket, no wash.)”
It was never cool.
It’s actually “no ticky, no laundry” meaning you can not retrieve your laundry unless you produce your ticket.
And the funny thing is, Solomon Yue is Asian-American. Which doesn’t excuse it.
Have you ever looked at the RO Facebook page? It’s demented. About 5% tax stuff and 95% Deep State conspiracy undermine democracy whack-job bonkers craziness. Absolutely awful.
Perhaps he was making a deliberate point.
The damage to US citizens overseas has already been done through FATCA already. Financial institutions all over the world are scared of US citizens and do not want them to hold accounts at their institutions. Killing CBT was the first choice but they do not want to listen and now TTFI. It will be very difficult for financial institutions to understand after getting scared of FATCA to understand TTFI. Yes Canadians would benefit but for the rest of the world it will not be possible.
I agree that many of us would prefer to use a pseudonymn to protect our own and our families’ information — the U.S. fear factor embedded into us in many aspects of having meaningful conversation with Big Government. Just wondering what the rules are for validation of the signatures on the petitions we continue to sign and what might be the risk of us not being taken seriously given that a large number of us would choose to sign that way, indeed the only way some of us will sign.
It is difficult to understand given the number of years we have been fighting this that any US government representatives can say they know nothing of FATCA and CBT, etc. No excuses should wash for their ignorance.
Also article very worth reading, quotes from Brockers, ADCT, ADCS, etc.
Super article! Thanks for posting that, Badger!
Hell, I signed the RO petition (again) with my name, and added in the comment that I wanted RBT and exclusion of bona fide foreign residents from FATCA (I know, same thing, but repetition is necessary). What are “they” going to do if they know your real name? Frankly, the greatest risk is getting deluged with RO emails (damn, should’ve thought of that).
Anyway comments here confirm that politics makes for strange bedfellows, and so does CBT / FATCA obviously. Quite amusing and amazing to see how many liberals (including myself) have found ourselves signing an RO petition, and discovering that Grover Norquist and the Freedom Caucus actually speak sensibly on this issue.
Husband and I both signed with real names but we used a relatively close city’s name rather than our obscure little town’s name. We put N/A for the voting line since neither us can. We didn’t see any need to hide our identity.
@ Fred
There won’t be any e-mails if you unchecked the box at the bottom. We did for sure.
Good point what to put in the comment section.
I think I’ll probably put something in about the justification of taxation and that as no resident services are provided and there is no protection of local property that the taxation is not justified.
@Fred(B) it is not a liberal vs con issue. It’s a common issue that should have been tackled 8 years ago when this monstrosity passed. Unfortunately no one voiced any concern only it started raising its ugly head in 2011 when a lot of normal non resident of US for many years started renouncing their US citizenship and internet became alive with their stories. When I saw people in HK in 2010 waiting in lines I never expected myself to go through this but now I am seriously considering renunciation as it has become a headache for me. For those who are now having issues with their corporations I can feel your pain as I am there with you. My CPA told me that yes I will have to pay transition tax as several CPAs are putting this info on their websites. For covered expat problem I will have to put up with their transition tax, Yes this my last year and suddenly being hit with transition tax on my way out will hurt a lot but now I am unable to do anything as I wish I should have divorced US a long time ago.
That may be the way it’s lining up.
The President is under perpetual IRS audit; the Secretary of the Treasury agreed during his nomination hearing that he would ensure the IRS complied with administrative regulations; and the putative new Commissioner, as you say, has a history of defending rich people against the IRS.
Showdown! (maybe)
From Mnuchin’s hearing:
Hatch:
Mnuchin:
static.politico.com/bc/9e/81e33aa74b5980daa9ffdeb7cba9/steven-mnuchin-responses-to-senate-finance-committee.pdf
If there was a firm intention to bring out a “fix” bill in April and the IRS is resisting, it might be because of the fuss over the withholding tables.
As I understand it, the Republicans want the IRS to change the withholding straightaway so people see more money in their take-home pay in time to make them all vote Republican out of gratitude.
Whereas the IRS wants to change the withholding later, which would mean people end up paying more tax this year and might vote Democrat out of resentment. They would get bigger refunds next year, but that might be too late to hang onto Republican control of both houses.
“the putative new Commissioner, as you say, has a history of defending rich people against the IRS.”
That’s because rich people can afford lawyers.
Innocent people can’t afford lawyers so the IRS, DOJ, and courts help the IRS’s embezzlers keep what they stole from victims. Even when I perpetually demand an audit, they refuse. They know how to protect their secrets.
@SolomonYue 11h11 hours ago
There’ll be #TTFI text but we don’t know when. Tax Cuts & Jobs Act text was available 1 wk B4 the vote. We can expect the same. We welcome other groups 2 support #TTFI by signing our petition. But we can’t fix their issues in our bill. By overloading the X’mas tree we kill #TTFI.
Solomon Yue
@SolomonYue
13h13 hours ago
Replying to @HeidiHasz @JCDoubleTaxed and 13 others
Commitment is a 2-way street: we got a commitment 2 draft, introduce, score, & vote on a #TTFI bill b4 Easter recess while we r committed 2 provide air support w/ TTFI petitions. We want 2 beat our 2017 3K record w/ 10K this time: so no ticky no washy or no signature no complaint
“no ticky no washy”?
Jesus…
baffles me too. Yet I kind of get the idea.
It seems not only rude but unfair.
“Bring us the details of 10000 unknown individuals or nothing will happen.”
There seems to be a discordancy between this:
(https://mailchi.mp/12c8c8f8d63b/sign-the-2018-ttfi-petition)
and this:
The first implies that an April “fixes” bill (addressing CBT among other issues) was previously expected but now is not. This is consistent with Congressman Whatsisname’s comment following the passage of the tax reform bill.
The second implies that there is a commitment by unnamed politicians to draft, introduce, score and vote on a TTFI bill before the Easter recess, provided a large number of individuals sign the RO petition.
Drafting and introducing could be done by a willing Representative using RO’s proposal. RO could pay for scoring, as ACA did for their RBT plan. But how would it be brought to a vote? That would need the backing of the Ways and Means Committee – which quote 1 (above) implies no longer exists due to the IRS whipping out its
pre-emptive strike“additional guidance” notice.Doesn’t seem to fit together.
The “no ticky no washy” line is a really arcane reference to the old Chinese laundries. (No ticket, no wash.) If spoken, usually by your racist grandfather, it would done so in a fake Chinese accent with an exaggerated squint.
The same level of racialized caricature as, say, the Cleveland Indians logo. Not cool anymore. A pretty tone-deaf thing to tweet, but then, Republicans…
Also, sign the petition, but with a pseudonym if you prefer.
It is interesting to note IRS is resisting congress laws. But I thought Congress makes laws and all govt dept follows those laws. Is the IRS above Congress as we are made to believe ?
“The “no ticky no washy” line is a really arcane reference to the old Chinese laundries. (No ticket, no wash.)”
It was never cool.
It’s actually “no ticky, no laundry” meaning you can not retrieve your laundry unless you produce your ticket.
And the funny thing is, Solomon Yue is Asian-American. Which doesn’t excuse it.
Have you ever looked at the RO Facebook page? It’s demented. About 5% tax stuff and 95% Deep State conspiracy undermine democracy whack-job bonkers craziness. Absolutely awful.
Perhaps he was making a deliberate point.
The damage to US citizens overseas has already been done through FATCA already. Financial institutions all over the world are scared of US citizens and do not want them to hold accounts at their institutions. Killing CBT was the first choice but they do not want to listen and now TTFI. It will be very difficult for financial institutions to understand after getting scared of FATCA to understand TTFI. Yes Canadians would benefit but for the rest of the world it will not be possible.
I agree that many of us would prefer to use a pseudonymn to protect our own and our families’ information — the U.S. fear factor embedded into us in many aspects of having meaningful conversation with Big Government. Just wondering what the rules are for validation of the signatures on the petitions we continue to sign and what might be the risk of us not being taken seriously given that a large number of us would choose to sign that way, indeed the only way some of us will sign.
i.e., terms set out here: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/about#terms
It is difficult to understand given the number of years we have been fighting this that any US government representatives can say they know nothing of FATCA and CBT, etc. No excuses should wash for their ignorance.
Just wondering out loud.
Don’t know where all to put this, but Admins could we also publicize the French petition cited here for action by those in France?
http://www.internationalinvestment.net/products/accidental-americans-france-looking-french-govt-help/
Also article very worth reading, quotes from Brockers, ADCT, ADCS, etc.
Super article! Thanks for posting that, Badger!
Hell, I signed the RO petition (again) with my name, and added in the comment that I wanted RBT and exclusion of bona fide foreign residents from FATCA (I know, same thing, but repetition is necessary). What are “they” going to do if they know your real name? Frankly, the greatest risk is getting deluged with RO emails (damn, should’ve thought of that).
Anyway comments here confirm that politics makes for strange bedfellows, and so does CBT / FATCA obviously. Quite amusing and amazing to see how many liberals (including myself) have found ourselves signing an RO petition, and discovering that Grover Norquist and the Freedom Caucus actually speak sensibly on this issue.
Husband and I both signed with real names but we used a relatively close city’s name rather than our obscure little town’s name. We put N/A for the voting line since neither us can. We didn’t see any need to hide our identity.
@ Fred
There won’t be any e-mails if you unchecked the box at the bottom. We did for sure.
Good point what to put in the comment section.
I think I’ll probably put something in about the justification of taxation and that as no resident services are provided and there is no protection of local property that the taxation is not justified.
@Fred(B) it is not a liberal vs con issue. It’s a common issue that should have been tackled 8 years ago when this monstrosity passed. Unfortunately no one voiced any concern only it started raising its ugly head in 2011 when a lot of normal non resident of US for many years started renouncing their US citizenship and internet became alive with their stories. When I saw people in HK in 2010 waiting in lines I never expected myself to go through this but now I am seriously considering renunciation as it has become a headache for me. For those who are now having issues with their corporations I can feel your pain as I am there with you. My CPA told me that yes I will have to pay transition tax as several CPAs are putting this info on their websites. For covered expat problem I will have to put up with their transition tax, Yes this my last year and suddenly being hit with transition tax on my way out will hurt a lot but now I am unable to do anything as I wish I should have divorced US a long time ago.