UPDATE Our Stories
It’s Cruel how we Have had to Give up our Right to Return
A Dual who Managed to Relinquish!
I Renounced – for Human Rights, for Privacy Rights, & for Showing Respect for my Husband’s Privacy
I Lost Hope
I did not Leave America, the U.S. Government Left me
I Feel Cheated by my ex-Country who Treats its Citizens in This Way
How I Became Canadian and Ended up Renouncing US Citizenship
Last Generation American
Why won’t the USA Graciously let its People go?
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I would like to create a section on the Citizenship Taxation website that is devoted to the stories of those who have renounced/relinquised. The primary purpose is to demonstrate a different focus than that of trying to keep it, hoping for change in the political process, etc. Hopefully it would include what it felt like during the period of deciding (the OMG moment + any particular stresses that pointed you in that direction), could include the actual appointment(s) at the Consulate, the aftermath, family reactions, etc. Whatever you feel would be meaningful to communicate…….
Real names are not required. All requests for privacy concerning email, name etc will be strictly respected/followed.
Please email to:
information at citizenshiptaxation at dot ca
Thanks!
FATCA is also very useful for motivating people to renounce their US citizenship. If the Obama regime hadn’t passed it back in 2010, I could have continued to live my life blissfully unaware of their wretched CBT system. I now know just how dangerous the US government is and live my life accordingly.
It is at present. But if the tax/reporting requirements were lightened the options might look different to a lot of USCs.
Sign the W9 and keep the passport? Or lose the passport in order not to sign?
Increase the FEIE and stop requiring USCs to file in order to claim it; stop trying to steal people’s retirement; and I reckon the renunciation rates would fall.
Especially since CRS makes the questions mandatory anyway, with or without FATCA. Might as well keep the passport, many might think (though not I).
” I now know just how dangerous the US government is and live my life accordingly.”
Likewise. But many wouldn’t see it like that, if they want the passport.
I’m with Heidi on this one.
All I want from the US government other than for them to leave me alone is for them to hit rock bottom and be forced by a court (any court) to pay me my $2350 blood money plus interest back and have to admit they can’t afford it.
There has been good news today, posted by Duality in another thread. (http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/fatca-and-the-eu/comment-page-7/#comment-8123981)
“Minor aside: Dewees’s mistake wasn’t keeping US citizenship, it was failing to acquire Canadian citizenship. Had he done so he could not have been penalized.”
He still would have been penalized because he still would have US citizenship, but CRA wouldn’t have helped IRS collect because he would have had Canadian citizenship. He’d still have to avoid ever going to the US, investing in the US, etc.
@ND
Sure. But he wouldn’t be any poorer, like he is now.
I consider the instigators of the FATCA scam on expats not just the US government/IRS but especially the US tax compliance industry (the Condors) who are playing a good cop/bad cop game. With the “revolving door” between various industries and regulators (FCC, EPA, FDA, etc, including the IRS) we saw a former CEO of H&R Block being a good fund raiser for a previous president ( was it Obama or the second Bush?) and then being rewarded with a directorship at the IRS. If this sort of thing happened in Australia that would be called corruption and be front page national news. In America however its just considered business as usual. (Read: Nation on the Take) In Australia you cannot get your local tax accountant to figure it out. He or she must be accredited with the IRS. Not even the Mafia could set up an extortion racked so well planned!
Guyz any covered expatriate here who didn’t filed fbars and form 8854?
Hi Jagz
A good question. Very roughly there are some 8 – 9 millon expats and only about 600,000 are compliant with those forms. (Anyone have more accurate figures?) So, if we take a conservative figure of 7,000,000 non-compliant expats at at a very minimum of $10,000 dollars (yes real US dollars) each just to get compliant – of course with the kind help from the corporate tax compliant condors – THAT is what most of this is about, at least in my opinion. Somewhat ironic that CBT was originally created as part of Lincoln’s war on slavery but now is being used to financially enslave millions.
I may have missed some comments but I see a trend that is disturbing (to me). There appears to be a desire to put out stories or images that will, hopefully, make homelanders feel sorry for us, so much that they may change the law. This is wrong in my opinion. Homelanders should be angry enough to make their government change to RBT full stop. Politicians don’t even listen to their own “constituents” why would they pay any attention to us? We must speak to the slaves themselves.
Every person born in the USA has the freedom of travel but as we here all know, they are not free to live outside the plantation. Even if I had never lived “offshore” before and had never traveled outside the US, just knowing the FACT that a born in the USA human being is UNFREE to choose where on the planet they want to live, set up a family and business and assimilate into the country of their choice legally, I’d be “mad as hell and wouldn’t want to take it any more”. In fact I AM mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore!
The FACT that the empire is so afraid of the plantation slaves finding out that humans can live, be successful, have healthy families and be totally happy even in “third world countries” (aka sh!tholes), speaks volumes. To lead a normal life outside the USA it is necessary to renounce the citizenship of bondage, meanwhile the mindless plantation slaves are unaware and hopelessly brainwashed that they “live in a free country”
The usa government has shown its true face to us who live “offshore”. They are NEVER to be trusted as we have so, sooo many examples of human rights violations, genocide, agression and outright lies. These true facts should make any reasoning plantation slave so angry that it could lead to a revolution. It is a delicate situation but we have to wake the homelanders up.
I have a secret hope that this entire issue we’re currently living under will bring just enough of us exhiled escaped slaves together so we can find ways to discuss it with our usa family members and friends both inside and outside the plantation. This is a conversation my usa family has no idea about. why would they? Through further wishing I have come up with the opinion that it is immoral for us who are aware, not to inform the plantation slaves. Remember many revolutions and independence movements that broke away from the grip of colonialism and tyrannical corrupt governments have relied heavily on persons living in exhile. We live in the age of commuication and we can make this happen, and we live in an information age where positive changes can happen respectfully under the law and peacefully.
@escaped slave – I totally agree that we need to make “Homelanders angry enough to make their government change to RBT” . And I do believe there are groups of people within the US that would prize the freedom of movement to live globally especially within the youth- the voting blocs of the future. Rotary International is one such group that encourages their youth (High school age) to go abroad for the year I had the opportunity to speak with just one member of their executive . I kept the focus of the discussion on the fact that Rotary was being negligent in not advising the US exchange students of the tax implications if any of their US exchange students decide to live abroad and of course that it only applies to US students. During the discussion she came to the conclusion that the only way would be for them “to give up US citizenship” and then realized “that would not be a good thing”. So as an example if we can appeal to Rotarians that the US tax regime disadvantages US youth- if we can explain to the US youth that they may “visit” Europe etc but they can never live there or compete – unlike the other exchange students from other countries. Further if someone explains to the the Rotary clubs abroad that their youth should be warned that if they chose to go to the US on exchange – there are tax consequences if they think they want to return on a green card. High school students may not understand tax issues but they will understand if they are told that do not have the same freedom as their peers from other countries. I am sure there are other groups out there similar in scope — Lets get them angry about this injustice!.
@Jagz
“Guyz any covered expatriate here who didn’t filed fbars and form 8854?”
I’m a self-relinquisher who filed nothing. As far as the IRS is concerned, all they know is that I suddenly and without explanation stopped filing anything after years of regular 1040s and FBARs. Its now been over five years and I’ve heard nothing from them and have no reason to expect that will change. (I make sure my banks don’t know about my US connection by happily answering “no” anytime I’m asked a question about stuff that’s none of their business so I don’t wind up getting FATCAed) I suppose this all makes me a covered expatriate…but who cares?
The reach of the IRS outside of the US is greatly exaggerated. By the way, FBARs fall under a different (non tax) section of the US code and have nothing to do with Form 8854 or covered/non-covered status.
@All
Homelanders don’t care about any of this; they have their own problems.
@Maz57
“Homelanders don’t care about any of this, they have their own problems”
I totally agree, I tried to have a conversation about the problems of expats and in extension how it would affect the choices of my well educated US resident dual kids future choices. All I got was anger that I should dare question their so called present choice. I think they are either in denial or it is a form of defense mechanism. They fully understand that they are effective prisoners.
“Remember many revolutions and independence movements that broke away from the grip of colonialism and tyrannical corrupt governments have relied heavily on persons living in exhile.”
Exactly. Residents of the UK didn’t understand why residents of colonies wanted to renounce UK citizenship, and maybe a century too late they finally learned why. Residents of the US don’t understand why residents of the rest of the world have to renounce US citizenship, and even if they ever learn why, we won’t be alive to see it. Sauve qui peut.
“Rotary International is one such group that encourages their youth (High school age) to go abroad for the year”
Yeah, at an age where they’re even less likely than average to learn how the US really treats its diaspora. How many of them have to file those IRS forms for owning shares of mutual funds in the countries they go to for the year?
@Norman
There is a village in Switzerland that I know well that has many International Schools and which have a fair number of American kids doing a year or so of study. I heard they were all denied any kind of temporary bank accounts while their fellow international students from Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, China etc, etc have had no problems. I bet that is a bit of a hard pill to swallow. I am not sure how they function, probably with an American credit card and their bills get paid back home.
Escaped Slave opined: “There appears to be a desire to put out stories or images that will, hopefully, make homelanders feel sorry for us…”
I don’t see it that way at all. It isn’t about trying to arouse pity. In my view, the purpose of sharing stories is to first, attempt to make homelanders aware of the situation in the first place, and two, to get as many of those people angry at the situation instead of angry at us.
In my experience trying to explain the situation to homelanders, the majority either turn off their ears and say “Just move ‘home'” or “Just denounce (sic).” Others say, “Think of those poor ‘Dreamers’ coming to America with nothing, and you’re whining about mutual funds???”
But when they see the video testimonies that were put online a couple years back, or take a moment to read a personal account of why CBT screwed up their lives, only then do they begin to get it.
Storytelling is a powerful tool. Why do you think humans have been telling stories for tens of thousands of years? People are much more likely to respond to a fable like the Tortoise and the Hare rather than their crazy uncle haranguing them to get off their bum and do something.
This is why I see this storytelling project (and the e-book I propose) as another worthwhile tool in getting our point across in an effective way. Not to mention preserving for posterity the tales of a small, overlooked population.
“Storytelling is a powerful tool.” Agreed…also a healing tool for those telling their stories. I hope your e-book will respect privacy concerns as well. Some of us who have gone through the renunciation process prefer to remain anonymous for our own protection. The homelanders may never get our point but it’s worth the effort to get the truth out. I think when the USA sinks from its debt load, the homelanders may suddenly wake up.
@PatCanadian, We’re not even close to an e-book, and I wouldn’t assemble it alone. But it goes without saying that no real names would be used! In fact, no one’s story would be included without their permission. In my mind, I’d only want to put the country of residence, in order to highlight the subtle differences we each face in different countries.
@Barbara
Sounds good. Including country of residence is fine as it does make a difference.
@ Escaped Slave…if you don’t tell the story, how do you educate others who are unaware of the problem? I don’t believe telling your story is about making others feel sorry for those renouncing. I don’t get your logic. A story is communication and the story that I tell my family is the same story that would be shared here. Hopefully, they will repeat my story. They will be educating others by telling my story. I don’t know if this can be fixed. The US is very, very, very broken. BUT, maybe our stories will help educate others thinking of moving abroad.
I was hoping for more stories today. It’s obvious to those who have been at Brock for the past 5 years that I cannot provide a renunciation story (I’m not now or ever have been an American) and I don’t think my husband would be inclined to write about his relinquishment. He’s moved on and seems pretty darn comfortable with being only Canadian now. If anyone is interested in a non-renunciation story (maybe call it a mild denunciation story) here’s a link to mine (wrote it a few years ago) …
http://citizenshiptaxation.ca/testimony-green-card-holder-victim-of-fatca-after-failing-to-return-expired-card/
@Ann#1 US is very very broken. Yes Ann you are correct. Treasury secretary announced that by 2034 US will not be able to pay SS benefits. It’s broken completely and don’t count on anything from US. If you are Canadian you are lucky as even U.K. is broke now. Meanwhile Canadian govt after the Cyprus govt seizing bank funds over 100k euro made a quite announcement that it too can seize funds if needed for any bail outs. I read it a few days after Cyprus govt fiasco. I know US is limited to 250k usd only per SS number. If over 250k, you can say bye bye to that 50k. Don’t know about the Canadian govt limits. But FDIC is broke too now. So no one is sure if many large banks fail at the same time.
I renounced when the IRS said their reason for penalizing me was that I failed to commit perjury. Now I no longer think that was the real reason, but so what, I got out when the fee was only US$450 and FATCA wasn’t being enforced yet.