Today (11/16/2017) the floor of the House passed the House tax reform bill. The earlier version is here .
Today also the Senate Finance committee passed the Senate tax reform bill. See link
Do not yet have the final versions of either bill but suspect that we are not helped in the bills. Will post here final versions when they become available.
Listen to the C-span clip found by BB in which Residence-based taxation is mentioned by Golding and Brady in the House tax bill debate — none of this however, appears to have been incorporated into the House or Senate bills passed on 11/16/2017
Republicans Overseas (RO) continues to press on, to make changes in the final tax package that will help us. The fight is not yet over, but it continues, right from the beginning, to be an uphill battle — and the odds don’t seem very good right now. RO says: “Again we need to focus on the Senate side since this fight is far from over.”
Personally, it makes no sense to me to blame Solomon and the handful of people at Republicans Overseas for trying to make a change and, so far, failing. Yesterday a friend reminded me that there was this Ismene, who kept telling her sister Antigone that it was pointless to even “try”: “…but you’re bound to fail…No sense in starting a hopeless task…Go then, if you are determined, to your folly, etc. etc.” Antigone responded: “When I have tried and failed, [then] I shall have failed.”
“My point is that a measure of compliance can be attempted for whatever personal reasons, but this should be done by feeding a tax preparer selected data, not blindly handing over one’s entire financial life.”
I agree that for anyone who wants to comply in order to renounce that’s a sensible approach (leaving out the tax preparer). As a way of life, it’s not very good, is it? It’s basically just tax evasion. That’s what the US tax code does – teaches people how to become tax evaders.
Better to renounce, if possible, or simply ignore US tax as many of us did for many years before FATCA came along.
“The tax on corporations reminds me of taxing capital gains on house sales. These are not things I would report on my returns since there is no way for the IRS to know if I sold a house abroad or if I incorporate my business.”
I believe that Boris Johnson was not in tax compliance when the IRS came knocking for taxes on the sale of his house. Well, I assume so because he was gob-smacked at the very idea of paying taxes to the USA at all, something he would surely have been aware of had he been tax compliant?
So how did they know?
Surely if you are tax compliant and you have a $1.5 million deposit, questions may be asked.
The new development regarding yet more taxes US taxes on foreign owned businesses is just one more grain of sand in an entire beach of evidence that says people need to cut all ties with the USA.
“The new development regarding yet more taxes US taxes on foreign owned businesses is just one more grain of sand in an entire beach of evidence that says people need to cut all ties with the USA.”
All financial and legal ties, at least. I agree.
The american tax system needed to be simplified much more than it needed to be reduced and we get a 250 pages document with even more loopholes and special circumstances? I can see the swamp is doing well. Territorial Taxation is impossible to implement without a million ancillary rules to make sure people don’t abuse it. One of the interesting side effects is that it would indeed make the life of US tainted expatriate business owners impossible unless there was a residency clause. This is serious enough to suggest the residency aspect might get looked at after all. Fingers crossed.
If the Republicans are uncaring enough to sacrifice their expats again, the resulting wave of renunciations might finally prompt them to act for us. I am sure many have been holding out in hope and will now give up en masse when all the profits of their businesses go up in taxes. The Social Justice Warriors will immediately tag this as an anti-Trump movement, deeply shaming the present government.
@fredb
Yes, I agree with you but it is becoming extremely difficult to do what you suggest as the screws tighten.
In my country of residence one has to place all funds from house sales into a personal banking account registered in the sellers name, escrows wouldn’t work. I believe Barbara who wanted to sell her investment property and buy a citizenship through investment property had the same problem.
Boris Johnson had several problems. First, he had been pestering the american government for years for millions of pounds of London Traffic Charges unpaid by staff of the US embassy (yes, when it’s them, they don’t go to court, they just don’t pay). They must really have enjoyed digging up something to hit him with, which was simple enough when the newspapers published the capital gain he had made on his house. This fortuitously happened just as his new book on Churchill started selling well in the US giving the IRS a perfect hold on his money. At that point, it is quite possible the Conservative party ordered him to get his affairs in order, otherwise, he will live in the eternal shame on having given up to the US bully when he actually was in a position to stand up to it. Nonetheless, like with so many others, having completely lost the good will and citizenship of a potential British prime minister will be one of the unending side effects of the CBT/FATCA fiasco the next generation of americans will have to live with.
“If the Republicans are uncaring enough to sacrifice their expats again”.
I think they are well aware that any effort to exempt the rich ingrates sipping cocktails on the beaches around the world from paying their taxes is going to be a public relations disaster that will have the democrats rubbing their hands in glee.
It’s not that those who understand don’t care, it’s a case of priorities.
In many ways this is going to be a self curing issue, and the USA won’t have anyone to tax outside of the USA.
“Boris Johnson had several problems. First, he had been pestering the american government for years for millions of pounds of London Traffic Charges unpaid by staff of the US embassy (yes, when it’s them, they don’t go to court, they just don’t pay).”
There’s the hypocrisy, AGAIN. While the USA terrorises people around the world for taxes for services they don’t use, the USA refuses to pay the charges for the roads it DOES use. They sicken me.
“Nonetheless, like with so many others, having completely lost the good will and citizenship of a potential British prime minister will be one of the unending side effects of the CBT/FATCA fiasco the next generation of americans will have to live with.”
And that is a very good point.
@Mike
I am not sure they have lost the good will of that so called ‘potential’ prime Minister. His refusal to even discuss his tax settlement or act as an advocate for US labeled persons in the UK, makes me suspect he got some kind of deal from the IRS to keep quiet. He seems to be quite eager to get a post Brexit trade deal with them
“One of the interesting side effects is that it would indeed make the life of US tainted expatriate business owners impossible unless there was a residency clause.”
I did wonder if something like this might explain why Brady said TTFI/RBT/ whatever was “being considered” and the tax writers had “made the case.”
It’s not going to be considered unless there’s a reason to consider it. Something that either helps pay for the cuts or wins support from otherwise unco-operative Republicans or makes Apple & Co more willing to play ball. I don’t quite see how RBT would do that but if it doesn’t I doubt if it will happen.
Anybody who is on Twitter, you may want to RT and comment on a nice post by Jeremy Vine (of BBC Radio 2) this morning who has picked up on this issue. Cheers 🙂 https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/926732426679848960
@USCA
I am NOT at the end of the road, I’m at the end of my wits. For reasons that our US citizenship has made complicated, we CANNOT renounce right now.
The situation is truly KAFKAESQUE.
@Heidi
In Canada at least, banks report your year end bank balance.
Somewhere on an IBS thread the cost of implementing CBT/FATCA as opposed to what it yields in taxes collected was discussed. How about this then?
http://www.ibtimes.com/political-capital/defense-department-war-terror-has-cost-250-million-day-16-years-2608639
It seems to me the US doesn’t care about the cost because it’s only about strutting around like peacock to show off power and not what can be gained by it.
Also, I feel that expats as a whole are a disjointed group and will never be able to lobby long and hard enough to get tax/reporting relief.
A good example of this is gun legislation. 93% of Americans are for tougher gun laws and universal background checks, but, despite children getting slaughtered at Sandy Hook and, most recently, 59 killed and hundreds wounded in Las Vegas – NOTHING CHANGES!!! The NRA won’t let it happen and they have the politicians to insure that.
Getting back to my point…
Expats exert no powerful influence to make a difference in Washington and the varying tax codes and banking practices of other countries mean that IGAs vary across nations, affecting expats differently enough to make a unified front among our kind a weak facade at best.
I feel the human rights violation aspect is a better way to go about fighting back. The complaint filed with the UN is a better approach due to the pressure on the US by other nations who view America’s CBT system as an old-fashioned oddity.
Something else:
In May 2018 the new GDPR (general data protection regulations) go into effect in the EU. The standard is quite stringent. Perhaps someone smarter then I would care to look through the legisation; FBAR filing, which has a poor level of online data security, might be rendered lame due to the GDPR requirements. It could be a small victory. http://www.eugdpr.org
As far as GDPR goes – Member State national tax agencies are legally required to comply with GDPR. They probably do.
FBAR filings, on the other hand, aren’t subject to GDPR since the data is being sent voluntarily by the owner of the data.
Whether the data is being sent voluntarily or not is neither here nor there. The GDPR requires the receiving party to fully document the data using strict parameters. FINCEN does not comply with these. As a EU citizen, under GDPR I am fully within my rights to demand from them all the info they have on me as well as the documented proof of how they obtained it. Nevermind the fact that they are legally required to “forget” my data upon my request. They are also not allowed to share the data with any third parties, even if they’re government agencies, so FINCEN technically can’t pass the collected data on to the IRS.
“FBAR filings, on the other hand, aren’t subject to GDPR since the data is being sent voluntarily by the owner of the data.”
Voluntarily?! No. More like under coercion due to threat of fines.
Of course it’s voluntary. Most US citizens living outside the us don’t file FBARs and don’t get fined.
But if you file FBARs and suffer data loss as a result, you might be able to hold FINCEN responsible in a US or EU court.
“The GDPR will also apply to the processing of personal data of data subjects in the EU by a controller or processor not established in the EU, where the activities relate to: offering goods or services to EU citizens (irrespective of whether payment is required) and the monitoring of behaviour that takes place within the EU.”
Source: http://www.eugdpr.org/key-changes.html
This part:
…apply to the processing of personal data of data subjects in the EU… where the activities relate to: the MONITORING OF BEHAVIOUR that takes place within the EU.
Other key points are (same spource as above):
It must be as easy to withdraw consent as it is to give it.
Part of the expanded rights of data subjects outlined by the GDPR is the right for data subjects to obtain from the data controller confirmation as to whether or not personal data concerning them is being processed, where and for what purpose. Further, the controller shall provide a copy of the personal data, free of charge, in an electronic format.
Also known as Data Erasure, the right to be forgotten entitles the data subject to have the data controller erase his/her personal data, cease further dissemination of the data, and potentially have third parties halt processing of the data.
Article here, for instance, on the Equifax breach and how GDPR would have affected it if GDPR had been in force when it happened.
http://www.oriium.co.uk/blog/2017/09/13/gdpr-and-the-equifax-data-breach/
Just because people ignore or aren’t aware of FBAR doesn’t mean it’s voluntary if you do file. As soon as a USC has foreign accounts worth more than 10K USD you are REQUIRED the file the FBAR.
Sorry, plaxy, I fail to understand your view.
“where the activities relate to: offering goods or services to EU citizens (irrespective of whether payment is required) and the monitoring of behaviour that takes place within the EU.”
FINCEN doesn’t offer goods or services, and doesn’t monitor behaviour. It’s a US government agency.
I’d be pleased to be proved wrong, of course.
OK, we see it differently. Good luck – it would be great if you find a way to use GDPR against FINCEN. I don’t see how, but I’m not a lawyer.