Today (11/16/2017) the floor of the House passed the House tax reform bill. The earlier version is here .
Today also the Senate Finance committee passed the Senate tax reform bill. See link
Do not yet have the final versions of either bill but suspect that we are not helped in the bills. Will post here final versions when they become available.
Listen to the C-span clip found by BB in which Residence-based taxation is mentioned by Golding and Brady in the House tax bill debate — none of this however, appears to have been incorporated into the House or Senate bills passed on 11/16/2017
Republicans Overseas (RO) continues to press on, to make changes in the final tax package that will help us. The fight is not yet over, but it continues, right from the beginning, to be an uphill battle — and the odds don’t seem very good right now. RO says: “Again we need to focus on the Senate side since this fight is far from over.”
Personally, it makes no sense to me to blame Solomon and the handful of people at Republicans Overseas for trying to make a change and, so far, failing. Yesterday a friend reminded me that there was this Ismene, who kept telling her sister Antigone that it was pointless to even “try”: “…but you’re bound to fail…No sense in starting a hopeless task…Go then, if you are determined, to your folly, etc. etc.” Antigone responded: “When I have tried and failed, [then] I shall have failed.”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but TTFI and RBT are not the same thing.
Under TTFI, individuals (like corporations) would only pay US tax on US based income. You could have people living in the US, taking advantage of all benefits and services, but not paying US taxes on all income. What if a US resident derived all of her income from foreign sources? Zero US income tax? I think congress will have an issue with this. I think people in general will have an issue with this. RO is pushing TTFI.
I don’t think the same issue exists with RBT. NON-residents are taken out of the equation and US residents will remain taxable on all income sources. I believe ACA is pushing RBT.
Am I missing something? Honestly, at this point I’ll take either one. I just think TTFI is a harder sell.
@BC-Doc….greetings to my fellow Irishman. I need to make a correction to ” Here in Canada, they may lead to Do It Yourself Renunciation. Much easier and less expensive (no need to pay a $2350 Exit Tax Lite)”
In most places, they may lead to Self Documented Relinquishment. Much easier and less expensive (no need to pay a $2350 Exit Tax Lite) unless you want a notarized affidavit for 100.00 (insert local currency).
The only reason to buy the overpriced CLN is if you live in a country where banks demand proof of birthplace and won’t accept anything less than a CLN if you want to open an account.
@Marie, “Correct me if I’m wrong, but TTFI and RBT are not the same thing.”
Yes, they are not the same thing but as I have been stating on these boards I do not care what proposal gets through ACA, DA or RO…..we need some relief.
When Obama floated the accidental get out of jail card I applauded that. Its something…… If a proposal gave you your freedom but kept my family in bondage I would still smile.
The big question is what is the easiest sell. I do know that Solomon is kind of an insider and Keith Redmund have been knocking doors of Congress. They are in the know and we are not. I do have exprerience in Congress in my prior life but that was twenty years ago so I am too dated.
What I think could happen is we have TTFI for those that meet the bona fide residence test abroad if that makes sense. That should be revenue neutral.
@Fred “well done! Unfortunately not possible here in Belgium where national ID cards are necessary for just about anything. ”
A reminder as to why I am glad ID Cards were defeated on this side of the channel.
@Mike, “You know, when ID cards are mentioned in this neck of the woods and there is a cry of outrage from one section who do not want their identity including place of birth recorded on national database and a plastic card, there is another section who cry “what have you got to be afraid of if you’ve done nothing wrong”?”
Let me give you some help in your corner.
Having an ID card that says Born in the USA could be a death sentence in a terror attack where they take everyones wallets.
I do know that for EU licenses, requests have been made and approved not have USA listed as a place of birth because of security and safety concerns.
@Nervous, “RO will have to prove the accuracy of their words and Republicans generally will have to prove their worth with action.”
RO exists to get the GOP out. Solomon rightly felt that this issue wiould bring folks to support Republicans.
If the bacon is not delivered he may have no choice to resign in disgust at the US GOP.
Democrats Abroad however are in a Win Win.
They have admitted that FATCA was passed blindly and they are trying to fix it!! But now its the bad GOP who is not helping expats.
If expats are helped DA will take credit.
If expats are not helped its the GOP fault.
@Bubbles…..I saw your question on Facebook, answer is here
https://www.congress.gov/legislative-process/committee-consideration
Markup meeting is open to the public?
If I lived in DC, god forbid, I’d go. And take my knitting.
So what exactly is “Chairman Brady’s markup”? Is Brady just producing another version of this bill that he’s gonna dump on the committee right at the beginning, or are we actually going to see a standard committee markup process starting from the existing bill that got released already, with a black-and-white on-the-record vote on a specific TTFI amendment?
BTW, for Barbara: Section 1031 real estate exchanges survive in the current version of the bill. (The bill would repeal it for exchanges of other types of property like livestock, collectibles, and business equipment; hopefully the resulting increase in tax revenue is enough to sate the wolves who were howling for total repeal.)
Thanks for the GGB. I agree with Plaxy, and so should expat groups.
@Marie and all.
A representative from RO stated on Brock that the reason they decided to go with TTFI for individuals, rather than RBT was that it would be easy to sell as it would be tagged onto the proposal of T T for corporations. Now that seems to have be shelved, then why not try for good old simple RBT for individuals?! It would not result in a risk of a downturn of inward investments in the US and the problem of every tax treaty with other countries having to be renegotiated.
@ Star,
I saw some commenting about Paul Manafort on the Media and Blog articles thread, beginning with Bubblebustin’, Oct 30 at 9:34 am and on the Possible Good News About the Upcoming Congressional Decision thread, begininning with George (GB) Oct 30 at 6:58 pm
I know this isn’t the right place to post this but:
More about FBAR being fished out to finger Manafort and Gates… of the 12 count indictment against them seven of the counts are for failure to file FBAR https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2017/10/30/manafort-and-gates-thats-how-they-got-al-capone/#6266b28c760b
@Deckard
“stories about Hillary’s emails” ARE relevant because they reveal the gross incompetence of her work as Secretary of State. Don’t forget that her boss was the one who weaponized the IRS against not only conservative groups, but you and me, and allowed the reptilian John Koskinen to gleefully demand that US persons abroad pay their fair share. It’s too soon to tell what Trump will do, if anything, to help our cause, but under Hillary, we would not have had a snowball’s chance in hell of finding any relief, unless, of course, she could have found a way to make money from it.
Pacifica – oh thanks, just saw your message, will take a look. Apologies for hijacking this thread but it seems such a clear example of FBAR abuse.
star:
The Federal Tax Crimes blog discusses the FBAR aspects of the Manafort indictment in detail.
http://federaltaxcrimes.blogspot.co.uk/2017/11/tax-aspects-of-manafort-and-gates.html?m=1
Plaxy: thanks
I have also it reported this morning that there are several tax treaty overrides in the legislation.
Mike and George: indeed national ID cards are to be resisted. Here they use them for everything: store loyalty card, visit to the doctor, online taxes, buying medicine at the pharmacy, access to your pension info, etc, etc. People are incredulous when I tell them there is no such thing in the UK or he US.
My birthplace is not listed as USA but New York. Now looking for a birth certificate from New York, UK! 😉
@Fred, I thought you were from New York in Lincolnshire or Jamaica or South Africa.
https://us.geotargit.com/called.php?qcity=New%20York
@Tim Smyth
“I have also reported this morning that there are several tax treaty overrides in the legislation”
What does that do for bilateral dispute mechanisms?
@Heidi
I agree with you about trying for good old fashion RBT. Were we not told the below that I copy and pasted. TTFI was not campaigned for and they want to pass this bill by the end of the year and unlikely to add amendments that will mean tearing up dozens of tax treaties with many countries.
“The RNC passed a resolution in support of territorial taxation in 2017, and the White House supports inclusion of TTFI in the tax reform bill.
But White House support does not mean that the House GOP leadership or the Senate GOP leadership will necessarily support Republicans Overseas’ initiatives as neither the House GOP nor the Senate GOP campaigned on repealing FATCA or replacing CBT with TTFI in 2016.”
Could someone tell me what the comments (currently 38) are like at RO FB? I hate how the comment viewing goes on and off on FB for those who do not do FB.
George (GB) stated Democrats Abroad however are in a Win Win.
They have admitted that FATCA was passed blindly and they are trying to fix it!! But now its the bad GOP who is not helping expats.
If expats are helped DA will take credit.
If expats are not helped its the GOP fault.
The goals of Democrats Abroad are not aligned with the goals of Democratic Party who passed this law without any consideration for expats at all as they wanted to enforce CBT on expats as it is money maker for US treasury and the compliance industry. Remember always lawyers make these laws and Congress just passes it. The tax laws always leave some room for a good highly paid tax attorney to manipulate and get money from their High net worth clients who pay dearly for their tax reduction or avoidance or even reporting nightmares. The average Joe and Jane like you and me just have to pay compliance fees to CPAs or penalties or fines to be in servitude of our masters.