Today (11/16/2017) the floor of the House passed the House tax reform bill. The earlier version is here .
Today also the Senate Finance committee passed the Senate tax reform bill. See link
Do not yet have the final versions of either bill but suspect that we are not helped in the bills. Will post here final versions when they become available.
Listen to the C-span clip found by BB in which Residence-based taxation is mentioned by Golding and Brady in the House tax bill debate — none of this however, appears to have been incorporated into the House or Senate bills passed on 11/16/2017
Republicans Overseas (RO) continues to press on, to make changes in the final tax package that will help us. The fight is not yet over, but it continues, right from the beginning, to be an uphill battle — and the odds don’t seem very good right now. RO says: “Again we need to focus on the Senate side since this fight is far from over.”
Personally, it makes no sense to me to blame Solomon and the handful of people at Republicans Overseas for trying to make a change and, so far, failing. Yesterday a friend reminded me that there was this Ismene, who kept telling her sister Antigone that it was pointless to even “try”: “…but you’re bound to fail…No sense in starting a hopeless task…Go then, if you are determined, to your folly, etc. etc.” Antigone responded: “When I have tried and failed, [then] I shall have failed.”
I have given the bill a separate post and a better link to the bill.
We got zero……no we were told Let them eat cake.
Today, every renunciation is on the shoulders of Donald Trump.
Trump and the GOP own FATCA….they own CBT.
Trump has the power of the pen to stop signing IGAs eyt he is signing them today.
Trump has the authority to unwind existing IGAs yet he will not.
Trump has the authority to index the $10,000 FBAR limit after almost 50 years and refuses to do it.
Just about nothing helps and some things hurt.
Hearing crickets from Republicans Overseas Headquarters.
No FATCA reciprocity for Justin Trudeau’s Canada Revenue Agency is something that “helps” by omission.
Oh, we as expats WANT and now DEMAND all the free stuff.
We want the foreign Obamacare exchange with subsidies. We want Medicare, we want food stamps, we want student loans and pell grants we want it all.
I don’t see anything. Scanned entire section on Foreign pp 312 to end. Nada.
Let it begin.
For those in the know, can Brady add TTFI in his “markup” before Nov 6? (hanging on to any vestiges of hope at this time).
Like Tim, waiting for RO to speak.
I had a feeling about this that nothing will happen. Most of us look at FATCA being an Obama baby but actually the Heart Veterans Act of 2008 and expatriation bill buried in there was passed in President Bush’s time which made renounciations difficult and all the requirements. Congress was debating already about offshore accounts and it was a hot topic even at that time. Please do some google. The compliance industry was salivating for opportunities for laws to make money for US citizens living oversees in their native or adopted countries.
As stated before on this blog several times, ” All roads lead to renounciations “. The compliance industry would never let us escape if they are given the chance.
Republicans Overseas already told us that they can’t do anything about FATCA in a bill they want to get passed in reconciliation. They could have done territorial for individuals but they are scratching for savings.
I long ago gave up hoping they would do anything after RO made their statement. Thei plan is the court cases that look doomed.
Solomon Yue and Mark Zell both haven’t tweeted in several days. Republicans Overseas UK tweeted the video just an hour ago, ask them what happened:
https://twitter.com/UKGOP/status/926111138303102976
George (GB) Trump would never do any of the acts like you or I want it as it is feeding a giant monster with tentacles all over the world. Local banks offshore even though I am resident there tell me to get lost as they don’t want to deal with US compliances.
Early days yet, I realize, but I for one am not surprised.
The best hope for relatively well-protected duals and accidentals is that FATCA fades away and is mostly ignored, like FBARs in the past when compliance was rare. The IRS guidance about not really needing an SSN/TIN if the customer can’t or won’t provide one is an encouraging sign of the directions in which things might move.
Even in that case there is still plenty of work to be done, but rather than lobbying DC (pointless I imagine) one should focus on domestic lawsuits to strike down IGAs or ensure banking access, and above all on education: get the word out that non-compliance is a safe and viable strategy for most duals who discover their filing obligations.
Also telling off reporters every quarter when the dumb stories about renunciation appear. That’s worth doing.
“For those in the know, can Brady add TTFI in his “markup” before Nov 6? ”
I’m not in the know but it seems unlikely that anything will be added unless it would be a pay-for. They’re desperate to get a bill through in this calendar year.
Better to accept that the cause of the problem is never going to fix the problem. Make it worse, more likely.
Democrats Abroad is now out on TWITTER blaming Republicans Overseas for being weak.
@Tim, “Democrats Abroad is now out on TWITTER blaming Republicans Overseas for being weak.”
Donald Trump and the GOP now willfullly own CBT and FATCA.
I will smile with glee if this issue is POUNDED on them by the opposition.
George (GB) Ever wondered that Democrats and Repubs are the same sides of a coin? I am an independent never liked both parties as their goals are the same.
Twitter link to DA and they will now pound the GOP
https://twitter.com/demsabroad?lang=en
YES my friends….The Republican Party is now the willfull owner of CBT and FATCA.
Democrats and I suspect they will….will now state and take the posotion they did not know how bad the law would be…it was a mistake as written….they lobbied to change it and the Republicans willfully kept it while they bailed out their homeland FATCAT supporters.
You know……they could have tossed us a crumb. There were plenty of revenue neutral items that small would have been something.
Instead they listened to the bonafide hardships and told us all to eat cake…,.f— Off and die.
There is no way anybody can rightfully blame RO for anything. Solomon and Michael worked their butts off and stuck their necks out for us. Every single expat should be damned grateful for their efforts.
The GOP had the tax gavel for years and did not move an inch to understand the overseas problems with double taxation. We also had competing reform proposals to help them see the onerousness ways of the tax code and no still no luck. The real winners are the CPAs and other special interest who gained handsomely off our backs.
@Patricia….as you know I have been reminding folks on these boards not to be critical of the US Republican Party and then Donald Trump because they had listened and made written promises.
I hold no ill will for Solomon.
That said…..it is not tenable for Solomon to defend the US Republican Party for their willfill omissions today and that includes Donald Trump.
1. They made promises to get votes.
2. Those promises were in writing.
3. They then went on a listening campaign.
4. Republicans Overseas and Democrats Abroad were UNITED in a single cause because of the abject horror.
Today…….we did not get a crumb and in fact according to @Eric it appears that some expats are now worse off!!!
Solomon needs to stop apologizing for the US Republican party and call it what it is. Solomon needs to come out and state we were willfully ignored.
Obama and the Democrats blindly passed FATCA.
Trump and the Republicans WILLFULLY kept FATCA and double downed with CBT. To be honest I am now surprised we didn’t take it more with some type of expatriot tax to fund goodies for mooch homelanders.
Democrats Abroad rightfully and now eagerly are pounding on RO and the US Republican party. They will take full claim to their plan to help expats that the GOP ignored in secret.
@plaxy
I thought TTFI was supposed to be Revenue positive. A possible bargaining chip? (hope dies hard in old B.B., but then that’s all I’ve ever had). Or maybe they just don’t want to close the loophole that exempts wealthy non-resident foreigners from having to pay taxes on substantial real estate investments in the US.
Condors: 1
Expats: 0
Bubblebustin – I know that’s how RO presented it but I wonder if that would ever have got through the scoring.
But I suspect mainly TTFI was never really on their minds. Maybe they listened to the presentation and considered it briefly, but what they really desperately want is tax cuts (for voters and donors and themselves) and stimulus. Changes for expats just don’t tick any of those boxes. Even if it had been included, I suspect it would have been dropped as the bill got pared down for the vote.
@Bubblestein, unfortunately your scoring is correct foe condors as I knew those condors were worried about this bill and may have tried some donations to kill any individual taxation problems. Those of us who are now looking forward to renounciations should start doing that in case they make it impossible to renounce also as I was given this info by a compliance condor ( a friend ) in 2011 about renouncing as quickly as possible to avoid future problems. I did not trust him as he was a condor and I hated those condors preying on individuals who have no clue about international taxation.
Looks like a complete zero. Bye Bye RO.