Today (11/16/2017) the floor of the House passed the House tax reform bill. The earlier version is here .
Today also the Senate Finance committee passed the Senate tax reform bill. See link
Do not yet have the final versions of either bill but suspect that we are not helped in the bills. Will post here final versions when they become available.
Listen to the C-span clip found by BB in which Residence-based taxation is mentioned by Golding and Brady in the House tax bill debate — none of this however, appears to have been incorporated into the House or Senate bills passed on 11/16/2017
Republicans Overseas (RO) continues to press on, to make changes in the final tax package that will help us. The fight is not yet over, but it continues, right from the beginning, to be an uphill battle — and the odds don’t seem very good right now. RO says: “Again we need to focus on the Senate side since this fight is far from over.”
Personally, it makes no sense to me to blame Solomon and the handful of people at Republicans Overseas for trying to make a change and, so far, failing. Yesterday a friend reminded me that there was this Ismene, who kept telling her sister Antigone that it was pointless to even “try”: “…but you’re bound to fail…No sense in starting a hopeless task…Go then, if you are determined, to your folly, etc. etc.” Antigone responded: “When I have tried and failed, [then] I shall have failed.”
Borges could write a story about infinite bills, or infinite variations of the same bill, being considered by infinite congresses, and how all of them are true at the same time–we just have to decide which parallel universe to enter (perhaps by smuggling forged bills into the Congressional Record).
@George (GB)
“This was the biggest bald faced lie perpetrated on voters, PERIOD.
The Republican Party owns FATCA.
The Republican Party owns the IGAs.
The Republican Party owns FBARs.
The Republican Party owns CBT.
The Republican Party owns every single renunciation from this moment on.”
And let’s them with this again and again and again until they act.
No need to feel ashamed, they were the best chsnce we had. YOU did not lie.
“Thank you to @Patricia and the others here at IBS who continue to provide reasoned and reliable information to counter misinformation and the compliance industry and friends.”
Hear hear.
Cheer up, Brockers. History is on your side, in the matter of RBT. For US persons outside America, the comments from Brady and Holding are the significant takeaway from yesterday’s “debate.”
It could be a long long time before the shift towards RBT bears legislative fruit – too long perhaps to be helpful for those currently caught up in the problems created by CBT. And America’s interpretation of RBT may well turn out to be not so much a cure as a new disease. Hard choices remain, for the foreseeable future. Never mind – such is life. At least the available choices are now known, thanks in considerable measure to this website.
IBS together with others has shown and is showing that CBT can often be stepped around or ignored, and has helped defuse the fear of the IRS for many, and has contributed significantly to the general dethronement of American exceptionalism. Three cheers, and my personal thanks.
I am really disappointed. The one thing Trump should have been good at he also messed up. Almost every other country in the world has sorted out its corporate foreign earnings problem and instead of looking at existing solutions, they had to reinvent the wheel, with, in typical IRS fashion, hundreds of mixed length spokes. Some companies will benefit enormously, others will suffer; at random.
I am also frustrated that the RNC has so little influence on the GOP. What’s the point of it then? It’s just another proof that the american government is completely dysfunctional.
Of course, that bill hasn’t passed yet so there is plenty of chances for more vaudeville.
As far as expats are concerned, it is becoming clearer every time that we cannot fight the US government with its own weapons, on its own terrain.
We must fight abroad and we must use public opinion. CBT is slavery. If we start with that notion and completely avoid the notion of money and taxes, the public can only agree. If the British public, the French public, the German public turn against america, we will win. Note that they don’t need much prompting nowadays, america has been very good at making enemies everywhere.
It is a problem less talked about, but the extraterritorial control of the US extends way beyond taxation. There are many other ways in which we are its slaves and that helps our position. We need to complain to our own governments and ask for their protection. When Iran wrote a fatwa again Salman Rushdie, the British government spent a fortune protecting him. The fatwa was completely legal in Iran but the UK didn’t automatically think it extended to its own territory as it does with american law. Why can’t we get the same treatment?
Finally, renounce, renounce, renounce. How many times do we have to be betrayed before we understand the relationship is over?
A warm welcome to Shane from another forum. He’s going to explain why you are just whining tax evaders.
So today is not our day and tomorrow is not looking good either. A big thank you to RO, ACA, and all of the other groups pushing for change. It looks like for Canadians our last hope is our federal trial. We Canadians have been through this before during the last federal election. Cons passed the Fatca IGA, Libs rebelled and promised change. We all know how that ended.
Holding’s speech is in this long document (Ctrl+F for “citizenship-based taxation”) https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/2017/11/16/house-section/article/h9381-2
We still have no actual bill text from the Senate, but JCT released their revenue estimates for the version of the bill that the SFC reported https://www.jct.gov/publications.html?func=startdown&id=5043
The actual text would not help you much. Typically it reads “change this, delete that, add this”. What would really be helpful is a section-by-section summary. The house version of this contained the 10-year roll-up scoring numbers for each of the individual sections. I’m seeing new things in the spreadsheet released by the Senate, and a slightly lower overall 10-year roll-up deficit.
I still don’t see any relief for expats, and I don’t see the promised JCT scoring of TTFI that would supposedly have enabled that.
Or am I missing something here?
Please RT AND Like: Grosver Norquist Tweets support.
https://twitter.com/GroverNorquist/status/931693832076447744
Hopes for change to US citizenship-based regime still alive, campaigners say
By: Helen Burggraf | 17 Nov 2017
http://www.internationalinvestment.net/products/tax/hopes-change-us-citizenship-based-regime/
Duality (at http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2017/11/02/here-is-the-2017-u-s-house-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act-bill-does-it-help-or-harm-us/comment-page-26/#comment-8055248): “…there was also that successful tribunal brought about by a Dutch-American in the Netherlands back in 2014. However, that alone did not effect any changes in Europe (and I cannot figure out why).”
This case was reported on IBS at http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/04/14/dutch-board-for-the-protection-of-human-rights-rules-against-fatca-nationality-discrimination/
As various posters commented at the time, the ruling was against the bank, not the IGA. The IGA doesn’t require banks to discriminate against US citizens by closing their accounts: the IGA tells the bank to report the account, not to close it.
So unfortunately, this case reinforced the FATCA/IGA hegemony rather than opposing it.
Other EU efforts: J.R.’s petition was debated by the PETI Committee (http://www.europarl.europa.eu/cmsdata/124980/03.%20Newsletter%20July%202017.pdf).
And there’s also the proposed or contemplated legal action by the French Accidental American group.
It may be quite some time before there are further developments in either of these efforts. Anyone considering renunciation should probably not wait in hope.