[OCTOBER 1 UPDATE: THANKS EVERYONE WHO SENT LETTERS!]
Today is the very last day to support — by your letter and petition — a Republicans Overseas (RO)/RNC proposal that would replace citizenship-based taxation with a form of “territorial taxation”.
Info is at this website: https://republicansoverseas.com/territorial-taxation-individuals/#petition
RO’s Solomon and Michael will personally bring the letters and petition to the White House on October 2, but they need to receive everything by September 30 — WHICH IS TODAY.
USCA suggests that you consider:
“…The comments in this thread have reflected a diverse collection of views. The RO proposal has been severely criticized for various reasons (mostly revolving around the taxation of nonresident aliens). It’s true that the RO proposal has many flaws.
That said, I think it’s important to recognize in broad terms, that the RO proposal that will change the impact of CBT as it currently stands. In that respect the proposal is at least a start and that start is described as “Territorial Taxation For Individuals”. It is possible (and I think advisable) to support the broad principle of changing CBT without necessarily agreeing with every aspect (or any aspect) of the specific RO proposal. Some of you may have read the most recent ACA proposal which does a good and interesting job of explaining what “territorial taxation” (borrowing from the language of the RO proposal) could mean for individuals. (Interestingly what “territorial taxation” COULD mean for individuals is what most of us think of as “residence-based taxation…)
I am simply trying to argue that change will require education. Education will require engagement. Engagement requires personal interaction.
Your sending a letter and/or signing the petition will help RO achieve the personal interaction that they need to engage and educate. If you care about this issue at all, then you must participate.
I don’t believe that the mere fact of sending letters or signing petitions will make a difference. But, I do believe that WITHOUT YOUR EFFORTS and support that NO CHANGE IS POSSIBLE. Therefore, you are really deciding whether you want to act in a way that makes change possible or if you choose to act in a way that makes change not possible. It’s your choice. This is NOT about supporting a specific proposal. This is about behaving in a way that opens the door to discussion in change.If it matters, I am not a Republican. I am not a Democrat. To the extent that I am political, I would be an independent. I am not primarily a U.S. citizen. So, these comments are not partisan. But, I am deeply committed to the struggle to getting these unjust laws changed. Furthermore, I believe that change can happen ONLY if all those affected create a united front in opposition to CBT. It is the opposition to CBT that unites ALL Americans abroad.
It’s very simple really. Where laws are made through a democratic process: If you don’t make your view known you can’t expect change.
Your participation may or may not make a difference. But, your NONPARTICIPATION will make a difference because it will ensure that no change will happen….”
Only five days left (to September 30 deadline)
I revised the letter to President Trump to say what is relevant for my family and other families like mine, thanks to your example, Stephen. My letter has been sent, acknowledgement received and the petition signed.
I well understand the fear instilled in us by the US that makes us a very huge group of SILENCED persons who live abroad. It was not easy for me to have done this when I know so any others of us have not, but I know I will be able to sleep better for having spoken.
Until we can appear at the Ways and Means hearing with a large check in our hand we will have no representation in the congress. The lobby for tax accountants, tax lawyers,tax preparers and the members of congress, who get very large donations ( veiled bribes) from those want ing favors. and have done the same nearly 9,000 times since 1986 when they stripped the code down so they can charge a voluntary donation to amend it and if there is no donation then there is no amendment. Our congress is firmly entrenched in the swamp, protecting each other ,trading favors a.nd both against draining the swamp. THEY WILL NO EVEN DEBATE THE FAIRTAX ECAUSE WE ARE THE NEW POOR PEOPLE SLIDING FROM MIDDLE CLASS OT OF THE SYSTEM
There are no less than FOUR posts on the front page about writing letters/signing the petition.
I would hope this is enough.
CNN is now reporting that tomorrow, the focus will be on tax reform, now that the Kill Obamacare plan (or whatever one wants to call it) is again, dead.
@Carol……you have helped motivate and encourage me. I having taken a cue from you that I would not have thought of otherwise, having relinquished, and will write seperate letters on behalf of each of my children who are minors.
This meeting at the White House is real and very important vis-à-vis the change from Citizenship Based Taxation. The more letters and petition signatures we have from
Americans overseas, Accidental Americans, and all the associated adversely affected populations the better our collective position will be! We all have to fight the Good Foght! – Keith REDMOND
@ George
Stephen Kish had a good suggestion for those who have given up their US citizenship and didn’t quite know how to approach the letter. My husband needed a bit of a nudge to get it done.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2017/09/24/write-your-letter-for-taxreform-this-week-before-sept-30-fatca-2/comment-page-1/#comment-8003490
@ Keith
I read FB but I don’t do FB so this is the only place I can say thank you for all the hard work you are doing. I hope the White House meeting goes well and that Solomon Yue will be able to deliver a thick package.
Four days left to send the letters.
I have seen several online articles on plans to move to territorial taxation of US corporations, but nothing is said of personal income tax. See
https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/united-states-tax-reform-international-impact-by-martin-feldstein-2017-09
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/a-comprehensive-guide-to-donald-trumps-tax-proposal/524451/
It hardly makes sense to move to territorial taxation for corporations only, I think. Does anyone know any more about this?
Thanks
This is the ‘framework’ of the proposed changes.
As expected the main beneficiaries would be the wealthiest .01% (elimination of estate taxes and AMT)
No mention of RBT. All roads lead to renunciation.
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4061891-Tax-Framework.html#text/p1
I was torn about this. On the one hand, one should do something. On the other hand, it’s America’s problem. So the privacy-protecting compromise was to write the boilerplate “Dear Donald” letter with a pseudonym and submit via the RO web form, while on a VPN. Given that this is my (mostly accurate) personal-story paragraph, they likely won’t use it. But it felt good writing the thing:
I was born in the United States to Canadian parents, and returned to Canada as a small child. This makes me a US citizen. Other than a few years of post-graduate study many decades ago, I have never lived or worked in the United States. I recently learned that I should be filing US tax returns on my Canadian income, and FinCEN reports on my Canadian savings accounts; despite having no financial ties to the US, I could face ruinous penalties for failure to do so. This is of course absurd. I would happily renounce my US citizenship but am not willing to spend $2350 on an utterly extortionate fee, plus the requirement for five years’ tax compliance. I have no intention of ever living or voting in the US, no intention of using a US passport, and frankly, no intention of ever submitting tax returns to the IRS.
@DoD. Well. they proposed RBT for large corporations. For individuals, there’s no mention of FATCA repeal and no mention of getting rid of CBT but the lowest tax bracket would go from 10 to 12% for the low income folks so they can start paying (more than) their fair share. I’m not disappointed because I never expected anything in the first place. Based on their track record so far, it’ll never go anywhere, anyway. Glad I’m out of that third world country for good. As you say, all roads lead out of Rome.
As everyone on this board knows I have been extremely thankful for the commitments made by the Republican Party in their election manifesto which is the manifesto supported by then candidate and now President Trump.
Regardless of what one may think of Obamacare, there was a commitment made to repeal Obamacare.
I am a person who fully subscribes to a promise made must be a promise kept.
Obamacare remains the law and that remains very troubling because a promise was made.
President Obama and his Party were very wrong for persecuting expats and it is full scaled persecution.
President Trump and his Secretary do have the power to provide immediate Executive relief to expats.
To date, every renunciation is a dark stain on the collar of the United States and every American should be ashamed. The responsible party to date is President Obama and his fellow party members.
But……..we are now at the point of all this tipping…………….
Should expats not receive full and absolute relief……..President Trump and the Republican Party (NOT Obama and the Democrats) will OWN FATCA and CBT.
Very very shortly Trump and the Republicans will be responsible for every renunciation and its worse because people will be renouncing their citizenship because Trump and the GOP LIED when they promised to repeal FATCA and CBT.
It is BAD that Obama and his ilk enacted all this.
It is far worse and far more evil if this remains the law after a solemn promise was made to repeal it.
To be honest there should be no need to write letters and sob stories.
The only thing we and everyone else should be doing is demandiing that a written promise be kept.
We already knew the democrats hate expat.
But we are about to learn if the republicans hate expat and are liars.
I know which is worst.
Page 9 of the document that DoD has referenced contains a section entitled “Territorial Taxation of Global American Companies”. Within the few short paragraphs describing a proposed shift from worldwide to territorial taxation it is clear that there is no current intention to include individuals in the proposed reform. There is not an iota of an indication that our issue is on the radar at all. It is as though we are in the midst of that dream in which we are screaming at the tops of our lungs but no sound is coming out.
Lawmakers are getting an in-person presentation from us via Solomon Yue next Monday, less than a week away. Let’s make that count for something BIG! It doesn’t matter a hoot whether you care for the details of the plan or not when those who are about to decide our futures don’t even acknowledge we exist! WRITE YOUR LETTERS! SIGN THE PETITION!
Freedom & Prosperity making the point:
Unfortunately, there was no mention of territoriality on the individual side of the tax code, nor repeal of the destructive Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act that has devasted Americans working and living abroad. It is up to Congress to insist on these changes as part of any final plan.
pls RT
https://twitter.com/CFandP/status/913141665417875457
No mention of TT for individuals in the brief sketch of some tax reform thoughts. What does this mean? Really, who knows what the White House is thinking (if anything) on the details of tax reform that would affect us? If you assume, as most will, the worst, better then to pointedly alert the U.S. President to the problem by sending in your letters and petition.
No, I cannot promise you success or that anyone will listen.
— At the RO FB website one person angrily complained:
“I just read a document published here and there is NOTHING on Territorial Taxation of Individuals !!! Nobody is listening!!!”
RO responded:
“That is the reason RO Vice Chairman Solomon Yue and Worldwide President Michael DeSombre will visit the White House next Monday to not only deliver those TTFI letters/emails/petitions in person, but also discuss TTFI inclusion in the tax reform plan.”
You can’t say that RO is not trying.
Three days and a bit left.
In certain respects, it’s a good thing that TTFI is not mentioned in the document. Can you imagine the shrill outcry that would result? “Ya mean them trillionaires bathing in champagne in their Riviera mansions don’t have to pay taxes? Hang them!” Politically, it is in our favor if TTFI is inserted in the meeting rooms of the Ways & Means Committee, and not coming from the pen or mouth of Trump.
That said, I’m in deep pessimism mode. If state and local tax deductions are removed, it’s an easy stretch to cancel the FEIE. That would be devastating to those like me who live in non-tax-treaty and “low tax” jurisdictions. For me personally, the status quo is easier to handle than life without the FEIE.
On the other hand, you get quotes from hypocritical blowhards like Democratic Representative Peter King of New York, demanding that the state tax deduction stays. To quote him: “No New Yorker should be double-taxed!” …Unless they live outside the USA, right, Pete?
Methinks the renunciation rate is going to go into the stratosphere beginning sometime in mid-October. Me among them.
Petition signed and letter to President Trump emailed to RO.
If anyone thinks the house or senate is going to do tax reform, they are dillusional . 8,000 lobbyist will descend onto them and the leadership with checks in their hands, allowing almost no real reform. They will all take the money and the swamp will see anything the house does as a betrayal and vote no on real changes. They won’t even allow a vote for you or on the FairTax what do you think reform is, They will pretend it is adding 2999 pages to the cpde amd calling it reform.
WE ARE NOT GETTING REAL TAX REFORM.
They are all creatures of the swamp who would rather see Trump fail than do what they were elected to do. Be very selective who you trust. Party doesn’t matter. Yea Party caucus nenbers are the best for truth and trustfulness.
This is reasonably positive. Come on people. Barbara has it right when she writes:
If you think for a minute that a 9 page skeletal outline of tax reform is going to include the concerns of Americans abroad you are delusional. The point is that there is NO ASPECT of these proposals that is inconsistent with territorial/residential taxation for individuals. This is intended to be is a statement of the general principles (a possible constitution if you will) of tax reform. The point is that the concerns of Americans abroad CAN fit into this. It is now the job of Americans abroad to make sure that their concerns WILL fit into this. The door is open to convey the message. But, the message must be conveyed.
The problem now is less the proposals and the committees. The problem is the simple fact that few Americans abroad are taking the time to express their concerns. I will say it again. At this particular point, the problem is less the U.S. Government than it is the inaction of Americans abroad. The number of people who have responded to the requests for letters and petitions is pathetically low. In fact the numbers are so low that the fact of the low numbers is doing harm. They are so low that it’s now easy for the drafters of the legislation to say:
Look how few Americans abroad are complaining. There really cant be much of a problem, can there!
Sure there are reasons for not participating. Sure Americans are terrified of their own Government (the new litmus test for determining whether they really are American). But, the simple fact is that with VERY FEW exceptions, Americans abroad are NOT participating in the fight for (a once in a generation) legislative change. It reminds me of a bumper sticker I once saw that read:
Quite pathetic really.
Ask not, what your country can for you! Ask what you can and should do for yourself and your children!
Do you want your children to be born into tax slavery when you had a chance to object to it?
Apparently so.
I have raised 3 children and each one knew exactly what I wanted of them and the consequences if they went astray. I kept every promise I ever made, In 80 years of life it is my observation that politicians cannot be trusted. They say whatever they think will get them elected and do whatever the last large donor guy with a fist full of dollars asks of them, whether it is good for the nation.
The Marxist, yes Marxist Income tax code, is the bread and butter for senators and representatives, who view their only job as getting re elected as many times as they can.
If you keep your expectations low of congress YOU WON’T BE DISAPPOINTED.,,,,,,,,,,
Their idea of tax reform isn’t what the president want. They will add thousands of pages and walk away and call it tax reform.
I asked Cheryl, my local US barmaid, if she is writing. I knew she would not be. She is scared to death of the US government and is just laying low in the UK, all her finances in her British husbands name, working for cash in the bar. She doesn’t even want to know what the latest development is because she is convinced that it will be more of the same. Another American living in fear of her own government. What the hell is the world coming to?
There is enormous pressure to keep the status quo and I suspect that’s what’ll happen. Repeal of FATCA is going to cause howls of outrage and accusations of helping everything from tax cheats to child prostitution, and letting people leave to avoid paying US taxes while remaining US citizens is going to cause absolute outrage.
There is also a huge amount of lobbying going to be happening by the tax compliance industry, and they have money to feed congress critters.
I said it before and I’ll say it again – I hope those expecting repeal of FATCA and CBT have a plan B, because they will likely need it.
Letter sent:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/fatca-and-australia/comment-page-45/#comment-8005808