From George (Original George)
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Could someone create a post on BOTH of these positions because it would be sure handy that we now have ammunition to write Reps and Senators REGARDLESS of Party!!!
This is very very important because BOTH parties Overseas have now converged on a common position.
WE will be attacked by do gooders in the homeland but now we have a shield from DA that must be used.
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@Biscuit had a great llink to what Republicans Overseas is urging…
It seems that the RNC has passed a resolution calling for FATCA repeal and change to territorial taxation for individuals. Text is here:
https://republicansoverseas.com/rnc-approves-resolution-supporting-territorial-taxation-individuals/
Democrats Abroad is now speaking from the same song sheet;
From George (Original George)
Sing from the sheet as long as you want…The problem is the same as it has always been. The Income tax is so easily amended that since 1986 it has been amended over 8,000 times. What is needed is to go back to the constitution before the Marxist’s 16th amendment was copied from the Communist Manifesto allowing a tax on income. It quickly started to achieve it’s purpose. It has virtually destroyed the Middle Class. The rich found ways to avoid by all those amendments and the poor pay nothing as it is, then WHO? The middle class. the only way to heal and let the middle class prosper is a tax on consumption. Every congress since 1998 has had a bill that would fix the problem for us and you. It has gained momentum, but the swamp dwellers have blocked any discussion in committee and if it can’t get out of committee it can;t get a vote. When the sales tax bill that is in committee is explained to a hundred people, 91 loved the idea and the other 9% had ties to income tax where that % makes a living, If I mention the bill number or any more details my post never makes it to even one member of the website,
My solution is niether democrat or republican, it is American.
DA also lastly states that they want
“•Simplified and improved tax filing for Americans abroad,”
So, residence based taxation will be achieved by expats filing and declaring taxes on improved forms.
Don’t mention exactly what the DA proposal is, just pick out which sentence best applies and write your D congressperson none the less.
Never thought I’d live to see the day that Democrats Abroad emerged from the dark side. If you read their full submission, there’s still a bit of waffle:
Democrats Abroad is open to a broad range of solutions for structuring and implementing Residency Based Taxation…
And they’re still proposing Same Country Exemption instead of FATCA repeal. But at least there is, for the first time, some basic cross-party agreement, outside the USA, on RBT. Will the Democratic Party leaders in Washington take up the cause? I wouldn’t put money on it.
@Mark Twain:
To be fair, the full sentence that you excerpted reads:
Simplified and improved tax filing for Americans abroad, which would address the hardship of Americans abroad filing even following the implementation of Residency Based Taxation for those who elect to continue to file.
In the full submission they explain in reasonable terms what is meant by such a statement:
Even if Residency Based Taxation were to be implemented for qualifying U.S. non-resident taxpayers, those who elect to continue to file (perhaps because they intend only a limited period of residency outside the U.S.) will continue to suffer.
Please, don’t anyone throw cold water on this bit of news. Not just yet. Let’s savour the hope for change… after all our troubles…. over these long, long years.
For now, for today, have a drink and let’s just hum…..
“Bluebirds fly over the rainbow, It’s good-bye to Miss American Pie.”
(And write like hell to your congressman!)
Trust me, Democrats Abroad got an earful, from me, and from many others. They know there’s anger, and lost votes. In fact it would be, at this stage, nothing short of suicidal for them to do anything less that support RBT.
Interesting twitter re extortion money /
The U.S. has been talking to North Korea, and paying them extortion money, for 25 years. Talking is not the answer!
Donald Trump
This should have happened long ago. How very weakened our voices were without solidarity. ALL expats must show what a problem they are having with CBT otherwise we have no clout. Who could believe us if half of us says “this isn’t so bad”?
I have been after DA for some time to get support for RBT front and centre on their website. For many many months there have been positions supporting RBT on internal pages that could not be navigated to from the home page.
No wonder why they could not get planks in the Democratic Party Platform before the last election. If any press, public, Congressional staffer went to their website they would only find focus on Mainland American Democrat issues.
Via Wikileaks we find a behind the scenes attempt by DA to influence the Democratic leadership in regards to overseas issues before the last election. There were a few e-mails. This one lists FATCA and FBAR reform as the #1 issue for persons overseas: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/30694 Yet why couldn’t this be plastered on DA website homepage. Only the #1 issue!
There has been a change recently on the DA website with this news: http://www.democratsabroad.org/carmelan/residency_based_taxation_what_is_it_and_why_should_democrats_abroad_support_it_faqs
The above was on the DA homepage as a news item. Yet we see they have two news items on the homepage, with most recent ones displacing older ones.
Currently, the DA homepage has zilch on support for RBT. However, as an improvement over the past, the above news item may be found by navigation from the homepage (a few pages in) OUR PARTY > Our Priorities > Taxation and there it may be found. IMO, still kind of hidden.
While in the Wikileaks e-mail to Podesta FATCA/FBAR reform was highlighted #1 issue, DA still has not called FBAR evil and don’t want to mention FBAR. Even in past attacks against the Bopp lawsuit they only mentioned FATCA and not FBAR.
On Twitter I was serially blocked by them before the last election, now not blocked.
We still have this mentality that taxreform is one of many issues DA is dealing with, such as nonUS citizen immigrants (so not playing ball on the #1 issue for U.S. persons overseas and treating it as their #1 priority, yet one of many).
https://twitter.com/CrossBriton/status/901420066574671872
Have a look at the tweet stream above. DA promises action in Sept on RBT:
Stay tuned for a tax webinar in Sept, which complements our global RBT campaign from June. Taxation is high priority for us as you can see.
The DA should be renamed Demonrat Homelanders Abroad.
We know from earlier announcements from them what they mean by “RBT”: CBT light. They never mention in this paper how exactly they interpret RBT. I’m pretty sure that is what they are supporting here; not full, real RBT. Why else would they write about “qualified individuals” and electing to stay in CBT. That and the fact they spend so much digital ink on the details of changes needed for those who live “offshore” and want to (are still bound to?) stay in CBT.
Who in their right mind would reside outside the US for any period of time which qualifies them as a resident of a different country “elect” do deal with this crap. They, themselves, list off all the BS and by doing so (unintentionally?) make the argument for full RBT.
The 1984 doublespeak just screams at me out of this paper, especially, when taken in context of their previous RBT papers AND the Demonrats history of titling things something which in reality does EXACTLY the opposite.
I don’t trust them.
I have gotten to the point that I don’t believe any single member of Congress (or president) actually reads a bill beyond the title and nickname, including the one who “wrote” it. This why they have such snappy backronyms:
I’m willing to bet if an oil lobbyist wrote a bill called “Tree Restoration and Economical Environment Act (TREE), also known as the “Save the Trees Act”, that most Republicans and ALL Demonrats (provided the DNC said it was what they want) would vote for it and any of the last 5 presidents would blindly sign it, never actually reading that the EE part is about cutting down ALL the trees and burning them so wood heating won’t compete with the oil industry and the TR part is about making a few plastic tree replicas for museum parks so people would be able to see one.
“We know from earlier announcements from them what they mean by “RBT”: CBT light. They never mention in this paper how exactly they interpret RBT. I’m pretty sure that is what they are supporting here; not full, real RBT.”
CBT light, and FATCA light, and FBAR light.
The paper mentions the “Overseas Americans Financial Access bill”, introduced by Rep. Maloney, Democrats Abroad Caucus co-chair. It lets FIs treat accounts of “qualified individuals” as exempt from reporting, if the FI chooses to do so. Another bill introduced by Rep. Maloney seeks to establish a Commission to study the effects of federal policies on Americans living overseas.
https://www.americansabroad.org/news/two-bills-to-examine-concerns-of-americans-living-abroad/
I suppose the Commission would work out what you would have to do to be a qualified individual – if it ever came into existence. And perhaps the requirements for being a qualified individual would turn out to be quite similar to the requirements described in the American Citizens Abroad plan.
Of course, the politicians and MSM just take the lobbyist’s word that it will “make ‘Murica’s forests grate again”: every Murican will always be able to see what a tree looks like, for at least 20000 years, guaranteed (for a fee, of course). All will be told about the billions of jobs created in the oil, plastic tree, and tree-cutting industries, as well as all the construction jobs putting up malls and 20-lane highways in all this new room.
And, above all, the clause calling for a wall on the border to Canada to keep all those lumberjacks from sneaking illegally across the border and stealing some of those jobs will be financed with the visitor fees and a special tax on Canadian lumberjacks with any connection to the US (e.g. they know how to find it on the map).
Seriously, we all know that’s how the US works, and always has.
Democrats Abroad are finally realizing the end, or at least the beginning of the end of blind loyalty. It’s starting to dawn on them that in order to meet the objectives of the DNC (garner non-residents votes) they have to actually do something to end the abuses against us. They’re also having to play catch-up to Republicans Overseas at this point, but as long as FATCA is hurting us, they never will.
I notice that in the 2015 Wikileaks emails ( see string with ‘Subject: Re: Overseas Americans Key Issue: FATCA/FBAR Reform’ and Smallhoover to Podesta Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:58 AM https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/19056 ) as cited above, DA Smallhoover describes those like us outside the US who oppose FATCA thus ; “…there are a number of blogs (pretty much hair on fire stuff) that raise the same issues and get folks all wound up, calling not for reform but outright repeal. …..”.
If it wasn’t for this and subsequent blogs, and making as much noise as possible, as well as those taking other action, we wouldn’t even be this far. I think we’d have had more pacifying cra/pap from the DA issuing forth that we’ve had since at least the advent of the OVDI 2011 crusade, and the nothingness from the RA that we originally had before we started raising this in as many ways as possible.
“Hair on fire” indeed. FATCA is a piece of crap extraterritorial legislation that abuses those outside the US with legal local banking and savings, and which is costing my fellow NON-US taxpayers to buy free lunch for the US – the initial and ongoing implementation costs of which are a US extortionate extraterritorial tax on NON-US people around the world forever and ever.
And Smallhoover’s comment in the email is only concerned with the impact on fundraising for the Dems, and election support, but NOT the fact that those ‘abroad’ pay taxes where they live, and so have concerns re FATCA and FBAR not only as so-called deemed US taxpayers as if they are actually US residents, but ALSO as the US sucks away at our local tax revenues through FATCA imposed on our actual home and country of tax residence and for some, other more salient citizenship.
FATCA is a piece of abusive US extraterritorial imperialism. FBAR is unconstitutional and treats those living legal locally compliant lives as criminals before the fact.
It’s not ‘hair on fire’ tinfoil hat to speak this truth to power.
The Smallhoover/Podesta emails show us what they really think about US citizens living outside the US.
@Badger I wouldn’t mind some Wikileaks on the Republicans as well. Wikileaks themselves may be subject to extraterritorial targeting with legislation to brand them a “Non-state Hostile Intelligence Service”
I do have more Wikileaks & DA & overseas Americans issues:
Americans, living abroad, use foreign financial institutions, #FATCA not needed to ensure that they obey the law !!
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/1383
.@wikileaks outs Podesta E-mail calling Bopp suit #FATCA / FBAR
@DemsAbroad never acknowledged injustice of #FBAR
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/5733
.@wikileaks:Recommendation to @johnpodesta for @HillaryClinton to make “a STATEMENT” on #FATCA reform.” NOT ACTION!
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/6580
Thanks for those additional links @JC, and I too would have welcomed equally, info on the other party. I have not forgotten that when we look back on how we got to this point (which we used to talk more about in some detail here at IBS in earlier years), those ‘abroad’ were very likely to be demonized and scapegoated by both parties, and subject to legislation that originated with either party, that treated our local, legal accounts as criminal before the fact, even if things have shifted in more recent days to demonstrate that FATCA and recent iterations of OVD harm has the Dems stamp on it.
A history of the FBAR shows that major changes to it ( American Jobs Creation Act of
2004 ) that added a new NON-willful penalty and weaponized it further in ways more likely to harm those living outside the US with legal, local accounts came in 2004, during a Republican administration and control of Congress (for record of votes, see https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/108-2004/h509). For discussion of the changes, see; “…In further effort to improve FBAR compliance and enforcement, Congress, in Section 821 of the American Jobs Creation Act of 2004, reorganized Title 31 USC §5321(a)(5), and enacted a new civil penalty for non-willful violations of FBAR reporting requirements and increased the penalty for willful violators.19 Under these changes, the new civil penalty for non-willful violations is up to $10,000 and the existing penalty for willful violations was increased to an amount up to thegreater of: (1)$100,000 or (2) 50 percent of the amount of the transaction or the balance in the account at the time of the violation……..” JOURNAL OF TAX PRACTICE & PROCEDURE 37 June–July 2008 ‘FBAR Enforcement—Five Years Later’ Steven Toscher and Michel R. Stein http://ogdenpage.com/pdf/1Fbar_Enforcement.pdf ).
See also;
‘EVOLUTION OF THE FBAR: WHERE WE WERE, WHERE WE ARE, AND WHY IT MATTERS
By Hale E. Sheppard 2006 HOUSTON BUSINESS AND TAX JOURNAL http://www.hbtlj.org/v07p1/v07p1_sheppard.pdf
“the Jobs Act makes three principal changes. First, it adds a new penalty for cases involving non-willful
violations.109 Second, it essentially changes the burden of proof in certain situations. Under the old law, all penalties required the IRS to demonstrate willfulness; that is, the IRS had to show by clear and convincing evidence that the taxpayer knew about the FBAR filing requirement, yet intentionally failed to comply.110 By contrast, the new law allows the IRS to assert the penalty any time an FBAR is not properly filed or the records are not properly maintained.111 This shifts the burden to the taxpayer to meet the “reasonable cause” exception.112 Third, the new law increases the maximum penalty that may be imposed for
willful violations.113 The previous penalty ranged from $25,000 to $100,000, depending on the amount of the transaction or the balance in the account.114 Now, however, these penalties have increased substantially.115 The low range of the penalty has jumped by $75,000 per violation and the high range has no monetary ceiling whatsoever, just a percentage cap.116 As a result, this new FBAR penalty could have serious consequences for taxpayers holding large sums of money in undisclosed foreign financial accounts. According to one commentator, the message from Congress is unmistakable: “taxpayers must disclose, disclose, disclose, or suffer the consequences.”117″……..
[quote]And, above all, the clause calling for a wall on the border to Canada to keep all those lumberjacks from sneaking illegally across the border and stealing some of those jobs will be financed with the visitor fees and a special tax on Canadian lumberjacks with any connection to the US (e.g. they know how to find it on the map).[/quote]
Us Canadians just want a wall to keep the mess from down south of the border from spilling over into our pristine wilderness. ~dripping sarcasm~.
You have to be careful about lumberjacks. They might try to sneak over dressed in women’s clothing.
The GOP proposal to go to territorial based taxation goes too far. Residency based is good. Territorial would make it even more of a tax haven than it already is. The pursuit of justice is to give relief to those living overseas who suffer CBT. If the GOP is going to use this issue to leapfrog to a massive tax cut for the rich with territorial system, I’d rather keep CBT.
Bob, could you explain why or how territorial would make the USA more of a tax haven than it is. Why would “territorial” be a tax cut for the rich? Please explain.
Hey, Bob, I’ve lived in Hong Kong, which has true territorial based taxation. Far from benefitting the rich, only the top income earners pay income tax. Only the top 13 percent of salaried individuals pay salaries tax, and most other revenue (property rental) comes from the top 3 or 4 percent. The tax form is two pages, there are almost no deductions, no capital gains tax, and the corporate and personal taxation rates are nearly identical, so there’s no hiding behind a corporate structure. Meanwhile, Hong Kong provides universal health care for the poor, and there is an obscene budget surplus. Meanwhile, nobody–including the most bleeding heart liberals–complains about taxes being either too high or unfair. The USA would do well to model the Hong Kong system of territorial based taxation.
Now explain to me how territorial based taxation is a tax cut for the rich. You’d rather keep CBT? Try thinking outside the Homelander bubble of partisan soundbite politics, and you’ll discover how foolish your remark sounds.
Bob,
Why do you and others feel the USA is exceptional to all other countries in holding on to citizenship-based taxation? Why is there an invisible wall around *the land of the free*?
So many of us have no meaningful connection to the US and *Americans, accidentally so-deemed by the US*, are our children born and raised abroad in countries where their parent(s) have chosen to become citizens OR children born on US soil but who left your country as infants or children to live and be raised in the country of their parents — US collateral damage in yet another area. Some affected by a US-deemed US taxation citizenship cannot even renounce that citizenship they did not / do not claim, for whatever $$$ amount the US wants to hike the renunciation fee to — for they do not have requisite mental capacity for one reason or another and a parent, a guardian or a trustee cannot renounce on their behalves. What is their fair share you all go on about as they are entrapped into yearly US tax and FINCEN114 reporting, both complex and expensive in administrative US tax accounting assistance they would need, most often with no actual taxes that would be owed?
The perceived problem of leapfrogging a massive tax cut for the rich surely should not be on the backs of innocents with no connection, no benefit from that US CBT exceptionality — including, now, different rules for the US in the OECD Common Reporting Standard (OECD CRS).