MAJOR Support 4 #RepealFATCA #Americansabroad thnx 2 @RepealFatca @nigeljgreen @GroverNorquist @CFandP @AmerComm https://t.co/BnuZfY0kSM
— Patricia Moon (@nobledreamer16) March 21, 2017
Came across this today: Ways & Means committee members letter
I do not have permission to reproduce in full but here are a few excerpts:
Dear Speaker Ryan, Majority Leader McConnell, Rep. Brady, and Sen. Hatch:
As free-market and taxpayer protection organizations representing millions of Americans,
we urge that repeal of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)—a plank in the
2016 Republican Party Platform—be included in any tax reform package sent to the
White House.
Since FATCA’s introduction, Americans living overseas have lost access to their banking
and investment accounts as foreign financial institutions drop clients rightly perceived as
toxic. This has not only impacted the welfare of the estimated nine million Americans
who live and work abroad but hampers small businesses owned and operated by
Americans attempting to compete internationally
FATCA repeal bills will soon be introduced in the House and Senate. We urge the
leadership and committees of jurisdiction to include this vital correction of misguided
enactment of the past administration by including it in any forthcoming tax bill
There is a list of 24 individuals/organizations. I ask any Tweeps to RT like mad to show our appreciation for what they are doing. PERFECT timing for the Rally tomorrow! Perhaps someone could put together an email list for those who do not Tweet.
@RepealFatca
@nigeljgreen
@GroverNorquist
@CFandP
@AmerComm
@RSI
@MarketInstitute
@ismurray
@Andrew_Langer
@limittaxesorg
@C4Liberty
@Lisabnelson
@Protectaxpayers
@NTU
@GLandrith
@60PlusAssoc
@SovereignInvest
@LimitGovt
@FreedomWorks
@tgiovanetti
@KarenKerrigan
I could not find an address I could confirm for either these individuals or orgs:
Jeffrey Mazzella President Center for Individual Freedom
Chuck Muth President Citizen Outreach
Pamela Villarreal National Center for Policy Analysis
Andrew F. Quinlan President Center for Freedom and Prosperity
Grover Norquist President Americans for Tax Reform
Phil Kerpen President American Commitment @AmerComm
Iain Murray Vice President Competitive Enterprise Institute
Andrew Moylan Executive Director R Street Institute
Charles Sauer President The Market Institute
Jeffrey Mazzella President Center for Individual Freedom
Nigel Green and Jim Jatras Co-Leaders Campaign to Repeal FATCA
Pete Sepp President National Taxpayers Union
David Williams President Taxpayers Protection Alliance
George Landrith President and CEO Frontiers of Freedom
Jim Martin Chairman 60 Plus Association
Wayne T. Brough Chief Economist and VP for Research FreedomWorks
Bob Bauman Chairman Sovereign Society Freedom Alliance
Andrew Langer President Institute for Liberty
Lew Uhler President The National Tax Limitation Committee
Chuck Muth President Citizen Outreach
Norman Singleton President Campaign for Liberty
Lisa B. Nelson CEO Jeffersonian Project
Tom Giovanetti President Institute for Policy Innovation
Rick Manning President Americans for Limited Government
Pamela Villarreal Senior Fellow National Center for Policy Analysis
Karen Kerrigan President and CEO Small Business and Entrepreneurship Council
I wish the lobbyists could persuade Kenya to restore Obama’s inherited citizenship again and penalize him if he doesn’t send a few million documents to them.
@ND
Can I trouble you as to why that sentence should be omitted. I rather like it, or at least the idea I mean to,convey with it, which is how reprehensible her threat is.
But, being the object of her threat, it is entirely possible that I am not seeing very good reasons for not including it.
Like your, “Go ahead, make my day.” but probably won’t use it.
@BB
Thanks. I like your suggestion for its simplicity and that it could convey confidence. Still leaning towards pointing out the facts in my draft but the more I think on it, the more it grows on me. Hmmm.
@ND
“I wish the lobbyists could persuade Kenya to restore Obama’s inherited citizenship again and penalize him if he doesn’t send a few million documents to them.”
You and I both.
Ah! Just rereread your comment ND. I got it.
Thanks.
@JapanT
This person you’re having this online conversation with is trying to disguise a sadistic bent as some kind of moral authority. There are plenty of psychos out here is cyberworld who have nothing better to do than threaten and intimidate people. Just ask Keith Redmond who experienced a similar threat from someone in the compliance industry who said he’d report Keith to the appropriate authorities for encouraging accidentals to flout their tax US expectations. Keith has now taken our issues to Washington!
If this woman hasn’t seen the injustice of what is going on, she never will. “The law is the law” for some people. Don’t take her too seriously – you can’t win them all.
@ BB
Thanks. I had already pretty much come to the same conclusion. I continue with it only becausecit is in a public forum and I am hopeful that othrs will the discussion and be prompted to research into it on their own. Not too hopefull though. She is the only one who has responded to any of my posts and I to hers. Beginning to thing that the mods have set up an isolated section to keep us out of site by others without us knowing it. My posts disappear when I refresh the screen.
@WhatAmI – thanks for posting that link (https://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Documents/tax598.pdf)
Very useful document. Part II spells out at great length, in the IRS’s own words, all the difficulties that make it impossible for the IRS to enforce CBT.
Indeed thanks to WhatamI for those documents. I particularly like this part:
“Thus, although U.S. citizenship and lawful permanent resident status are valued and valuable,
and provide a sound basis for U.S. taxation of worldwide income, compliance enforcement by IRS
may be extremely difficult with respect to individuals whose connection to this country was or will
be minimal.”
The part where US citizenship is so valuable as to justify CBT. All other citizenships are just unmentionable detritus barely worthy of RBT. All the more ironic that it also acknowedges wanting to tax people whose connections to the US are “minimal”. Jeez. To think homelanders reading this all nod sagely at these pearls of wisdom.
The documented is dated 1998. I suppose it’s impossible to verify what their attitude, means and actions are now.
This report has been posted on more than one occasion, and I am surprised it hasn’t gotten much discussion here.
Proposals to provide relief for accidental Americans didn’t start with the Obama administration.
From the report:
“In addition, persons may be unaware of their status as U.S. taxpayers with an obligation to file a U.S. tax return. As described in Section II.B, supra, IRS has undertaken various taxpayer education initiatives to in crease awareness of filing and payment obligations. In some cases, however, education may not be sufficient. For example, an individual who was born outside the United States and has never even visited the country may, nevertheless, be a U.S. citizen by reason of his parents’ U.S. citizenship. Such a person may not even know that he is a U.S. citizen and thus likely will not know of his obligation to file a U.S. tax return.”…”Thus, although U.S. citizenship and lawful permanent resident status are valued and valuable, and provide a sound basis for U.S. taxation of worldwide income, compliance enforcement by IRS may be extremely difficult with respect to individuals whose connection to this country was or will be minimal. In some limited cases, efficiency and equity may argue for some modification of the rules leading to such noncompliance.”
and,
“Relief for “Unknowing” or “Restored” Citizens
An “unknowing” citizen is a person who genuinely does not know he or she is a U.S. citizen, andthereforedoesnotavailhimselforherselfofthebenefitsofcitizenship. Theclassofsuchpersons could include, for example, individuals born outside the United States who were not aware of the identity, much less the U.S. citizenship status, of a biological parent.33 Although it is impossible to measure the number of unknowing citizens living abroad, it may be significant. IRS has received numerous inquiries from executors of foreign estates who have concluded that the decedent technically was a U.S. citizen but did not know it.
Equity may argue for granting some unknowing and restored U.S. citizens an exemption from U.S. taxation. An individual claiming the benefit of this exemption should bear the burden of proving that he or she had no knowledge of his or her U.S. citizenship during the period at issue.34 Because of the possibility of abuse, the criteria for lacking knowledge of U.S. citizenship should be strictly construed.
Relevant factors may include:
(i) absence of past statements to the U.S. government claiming citizenship (e.g., passport
applications and filings for government benefits as a citizen); and
(ii) past statements indicating a belief that he or she is not a U.S. citizen (e.g., applications for employment, applications to educational institutions, financial transaction documentation, foreign tax returns, requests for a visa for travel to the United States, and entering the United States on a foreign passport).
Once an individual becomes aware of his or her U.S. citizenship or, based on objective facts, should have become aware of such status, the individual could under this regime have a period of time (e.g., six months) to abandon that status without U.S. tax consequences (including the effects of section 877), so long as he or she does not utilize the benefits of citizenship during that period. Cf. 8 U.S.C. § 1483(b) (a U.S. citizen who commits a potentially expatriating act prior to his or her eighteenth birthday is not deemed to have lost citizenship if he or she asserts a claim to U.S. citizenship within six months after attaining the age of eighteen.”
“The documented is dated 1998. I suppose it’s impossible to verify what their attitude, means and actions are now.”
US tax law has changed, but the difficulties of extraterritorial enforcement don’t seem to have changed much. The changes in US tax law undoubtedly make it easier to pursue US-resident holders of non-US accounts, and those with US assets, but for USCs without those blessings (US residence / assets) the position seems to be pretty much the same as when the document was written.
FATCA is a BIG difference, no?
Depending where one lives, it may not have changed much or a lot.
FATCA doesn’t make it easier for the IRS to enforce CBT, it makes it easier for the IRS to identify non-US-resident USCs.
FATCA is certainly a damned nuisance, and local law and treaty agreements can exacerbate the impact. FATCA doesn’t give the IRS any additional powers, though, when it comes to trying to enforce CBT.
The IRS document is useful because it spells out the difficulties that confront the IRS. It’s useful to see those difficulties confirmed straight from the horse’s mouth.
I have a question. Let’s say your info has already been sent to the US via FATCA. Is it still actionable after FATCA is repealed or is IRS’s case against you not allowed to proceed based upon that info?
@ Iota
I see. But, once identified, there is the passport revocation law now too.
Is there any info in the doc that would be helpful to anyone who would like to make it as difficult to be found?
Is there a known instance of the IRS bringing a case against a non-US-resident USC for not filing FBARs or tax returns?
Not that I know of but these laws are new and just being implemented. Japan’s first FATCA report was in July of last year, I think.
The first batch of passport revocation letters were to go out on the first of this month. Way too early for the machinery to be up to operating speed yet. Besides, if Norman Diamond’s experiences are any indication, a large proportion of these letters were missent and/or “returned” to Panama.
“I see. But, once identified, there is the passport revocation law now too.”
Yes, that may deter some non-US-resident USCs from renewing a US passport, if they owe tax, and for some that may be create very serious difficulties. But it’s not a law that helps the IRS enforce CBT, it’s a law that helps the US get USCs back within the US borders so they can be taken to court.
“Is there any info in the doc that would be helpful to anyone who would like to make it as difficult to be found?”
I shouldn’t think so. It’s about compliance, not detection. And it’s not news – it’s just useful to see the obstacles to extraterritorial enforcement spelt out in the IRS’s own words.
Best to read it for yourself to see if you find anything useful.
The GAO weighs in, May 11, 1998:
…”Estimates of the numbers of citizens who are required to file and those who did not could possibly be made if there were reliable data on the total U.S. population residing abroad, related demographic characteristics, and the number of returns they filed. However, the data we obtained on the U.S. population residing abroad—from State Department and foreign government estimates—and the number of returns they filed are too uncertain to support such estimates.”…
…”The revenue impact of nonfiling abroad cannot be estimated, primarily because the prevalence of nonfiling and the income levels of the nonfilers are unknown. The impact could be relatively small or substantial, depending on the assumptions used in the analysis.”…
More…
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/GAOREPORTS-GGD-98-106/pdf/GAOREPORTS-GGD-98-106.pdf
To what extent does FATCA overcome some of these enforcement impediments outlined by the GAO?
Incidently,
Justice Department’s First FATCA Prosecution Yields Guilty Plea
https://taxcontroversywatch.com/2016/05/13/justice-departments-first-fatca-prosecution-yields-guilty-plea/
“Best to read it for yourself to see if you find anything useful.”
I have already downloaded it and looked through the TOC. Will read it later. Thanks.
“To what extent does FATCA overcome some of these enforcement impediments outlined by the GAO?”
Not much, is my guess. Most of the millions of non-filers don’t owe tax and are below FATCA thresholds, so won’t appear in FATCA returns. And a large percentage won’t even be seen by FATCA because they’ve had their accounts for many years and won’t get asked the question.
“Justice Department’s First FATCA Prosecution Yields Guilty Plea”
They pled guilty to money-laundering – a serious and extremely extraditable offence. If their only crime was not filing US tax returns or information returns they couldn’t have been extradited.
“If their only crime was not filing US tax returns or information returns they couldn’t have been extradited.”
Passports revoked?
Passports revoked?
On what grounds?