MAJOR Support 4 #RepealFATCA #Americansabroad thnx 2 @RepealFatca @nigeljgreen @GroverNorquist @CFandP @AmerComm https://t.co/BnuZfY0kSM
— Patricia Moon (@nobledreamer16) March 21, 2017
Came across this today: Ways & Means committee members letter
I do not have permission to reproduce in full but here are a few excerpts:
Dear Speaker Ryan, Majority Leader McConnell, Rep. Brady, and Sen. Hatch:
As free-market and taxpayer protection organizations representing millions of Americans,
we urge that repeal of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)—a plank in the
2016 Republican Party Platform—be included in any tax reform package sent to the
White House.
Since FATCA’s introduction, Americans living overseas have lost access to their banking
and investment accounts as foreign financial institutions drop clients rightly perceived as
toxic. This has not only impacted the welfare of the estimated nine million Americans
who live and work abroad but hampers small businesses owned and operated by
Americans attempting to compete internationally
FATCA repeal bills will soon be introduced in the House and Senate. We urge the
leadership and committees of jurisdiction to include this vital correction of misguided
enactment of the past administration by including it in any forthcoming tax bill
There is a list of 24 individuals/organizations. I ask any Tweeps to RT like mad to show our appreciation for what they are doing. PERFECT timing for the Rally tomorrow! Perhaps someone could put together an email list for those who do not Tweet.
@RepealFatca
@nigeljgreen
@GroverNorquist
@CFandP
@AmerComm
@RSI
@MarketInstitute
@ismurray
@Andrew_Langer
@limittaxesorg
@C4Liberty
@Lisabnelson
@Protectaxpayers
@NTU
@GLandrith
@60PlusAssoc
@SovereignInvest
@LimitGovt
@FreedomWorks
@tgiovanetti
@KarenKerrigan
I could not find an address I could confirm for either these individuals or orgs:
Jeffrey Mazzella President Center for Individual Freedom
Chuck Muth President Citizen Outreach
Pamela Villarreal National Center for Policy Analysis
Andrew F. Quinlan President Center for Freedom and Prosperity
Grover Norquist President Americans for Tax Reform
Phil Kerpen President American Commitment @AmerComm
Iain Murray Vice President Competitive Enterprise Institute
Andrew Moylan Executive Director R Street Institute
Charles Sauer President The Market Institute
Jeffrey Mazzella President Center for Individual Freedom
Nigel Green and Jim Jatras Co-Leaders Campaign to Repeal FATCA
Pete Sepp President National Taxpayers Union
David Williams President Taxpayers Protection Alliance
George Landrith President and CEO Frontiers of Freedom
Jim Martin Chairman 60 Plus Association
Wayne T. Brough Chief Economist and VP for Research FreedomWorks
Bob Bauman Chairman Sovereign Society Freedom Alliance
Andrew Langer President Institute for Liberty
Lew Uhler President The National Tax Limitation Committee
Chuck Muth President Citizen Outreach
Norman Singleton President Campaign for Liberty
Lisa B. Nelson CEO Jeffersonian Project
Tom Giovanetti President Institute for Policy Innovation
Rick Manning President Americans for Limited Government
Pamela Villarreal Senior Fellow National Center for Policy Analysis
Karen Kerrigan President and CEO Small Business and Entrepreneurship Council
I find it interesting (and a bit shocking) that a non-resident executor could cause all kinds of tax complications for an estate, even if the decedent and beneficiaries were Canadian residents exclusively. One would then assume that a US-person executor could run afoul of the US authorities, should they be made aware of the situation. Oh well, guess I can’t be anyone’s executor!
I’m still curious as to what happens when a non-compliant US person dies, particularly one with a US birthplace.
I tend to agree with maz that bank employees are happy to hear what they want to hear, and aren’t inclined to be curious. But problems might arise if a US birthplace is listed on a death certificate, for example. Someone especially diligent might feel duty-bound to start various compliance balls rolling.
I recently met with a will and estate lawyer in Canada. She, in and amongst our multiple legal documents, put in clauses that essentially allowed the executor or power of attorney to hire US specialists (lawyers/accountants) to deal with any US issues. Don’t be fooled into thinking that (especially if your estate has some assets) the lawyers will ignore US taint in Canada. If you own (I believe) more than $60k in US assets when you die, that portion is subject to US estate tax (as an alien). #CLN2014ANDPROUDOFIT
https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/some-nonresidents-with-u-s-assets-must-file-estate-tax-returns
@Born in Canada
By “US issues” do you mean simply disposing of US assets, or do you mean forcing the estate to come into full US tax compliance if it’s revealed that the decedent is a US person?
@Nononymous
“I find it interesting (and a bit shocking) that a non-resident executor could cause all kinds of tax complications for an estate, even if the decedent and beneficiaries were Canadian residents exclusively.”
That’s because to my knowledge, the executor becomes a legal proxy for the deceased.
Now what I can’t seem to find any research on is how the US would treat a non-resident non-US executor of a non-compliant US person who was a resident in Canada at his/her time of death, should the executor choose to be wilfully non-compliant regarding the US person’s estate.
I’ll add to the word salad: a non-compliant US person who was a resident in Canada at his/her time of death and who had no US assets.
I’m curious as to any reporting mechanisms beyond FATCA, but also how the whole legal process would behave knowing the deceased was a US person.
Also, if an executor did not disclose a decedent’s US personhood and the estate remained non-compliant, could the executor be personally liable for some sort of US sanction? You would not want your executor to be forced to choose between squandering your children’s (Canadian-earned) inheritance to pay US tax bills versus their never being able to cross the border again.
See, this is why I say we can not be complacent in our belief that whatever we have done or not done will keep us safe, not till FATCA, FBAR and CBT are all deadm buried and long since forgotten. There are just far too many threads that lead to trouble. Too many for any one person, refardless of intellegence, knowledge or training to think of and find. Too many for any one body of persons to learn of.
Until these three monsters are slain there will always be a least one invisible filament waiting to trip you up.
Staple a forged CLN to your will. Photoshop ahoy!
Love it!
There’s a lot of info out there about how US estate taxes apply to US persons in Canada (with an exemption for the first $5.25 million apparently so it has to be a decent estate to be taxed) and why you need expensive legal advice, but zero information on how the US would learn of a non-compliant person’s death in Canada or compel payment of US estate taxes in Canada, assuming of course no US assets.
Re EXECUTOR LIABILITY
From the past — 27 November 2015
Good To Know… Part 3 – From Larry Stolberg, CPA, CA
I think the concern here is how any potential executor would respond to the responsibility should they be informed of what that responsibility is. Ignorance is truly bliss in this case, because not knowing or knowing will not make a difference in the outcome it seems.
In a sense there is another type of accidental American – the estate executor who took on the role of a US person without knowing the full implications of accepting such a responsibility. Thanks to CBT, there are plenty of OMG moments to go around.
Is it not feasible that ‘pure’ Canadians could find themselves in the same position as many so-called US persons in Canada – that is to no longer feeling comfortable crossing the US border or to be less than truthful with their bank concerning their US personhood?
It boggles the mind to think that someone like this could also be considered a US person just because of the tax and penalties of another country.
This kind of ruined my night…
@Calgary411
“Executor liability for U.S. income tax and penalties, interest, etc., may extend to you if you were aware that the decedent owed the U.S. treasury for say tax from unfiled tax returns.”
Great catch. Just the threat of tax and penalties extending to an executive may be enough to scare executors into Streamlined (or worse, OVDP).
“Eligibility for the Streamlined Foreign Offshore Procedures:
In addition to having to meet the general eligibility criteria, individual U.S. taxpayers, or estates of individual U.S. taxpayers, seeking to use the Streamlined Foreign Offshore Procedures described in this section must: (1) meet the applicable non-residency requirement described below (for joint return filers, both spouses must meet the applicable non-residency requirement described below) and (2) have failed to report the income from a foreign financial asset and pay tax as required by U.S. law, and may have failed to file an FBAR (FinCEN Form 114, previously Form TD F 90-22.1) with respect to a foreign financial account, and such failures resulted from non-willful conduct. Non-willful conduct is conduct that is due to negligence, inadvertence, or mistake or conduct that is the result of a good faith misunderstanding of the requirements of the law.”
https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/u-s-taxpayers-residing-outside-the-united-states
According to the IRS TAS, there are well over 7,000 pages of mumbo jumbo relating to “Us”. Until FATCA, FBAR and CBT are removed there woll ALWAYS be something, always.
“This kind of ruined my night…”
Sorry, but welcome to the club of ruined nights (weeks, months, and now years).
The utterly tragic part is realizing that knowing or not knowing about the tax has not changed any outcome for either group of people – at least so far.
Oh, I’ve been on the case for a long time now, it’s more a hobby than a cause of distress. I’m quite comfortable with the decisions I’ve made and my ability to control the situation while alive. But the uncertainty around passing on a mess is slightly disturbing. Though unless I step in front of a bus, that’s many decades away and a great deal could change.
Yes, but not on its own. If we want it to change in our favor, we must force it to. Not thatbI think you are not working towards that end, butbI fear there are not enough of us on the case.
*In Ontario*, a deceased person’s place of birth, as shown on the death certificate, is supplied to government by the funeral home that takes possession of the deceased’s body. This information is supplied to the funeral home by the person or people that appear at the funeral home to make the burial arrangements. They do not ask for a birth certificate, so those making areangements can state the deceased was born on Mars, if they desired to.
The certificate (more an information page) is supplied by the funeral home, and is used at banks, in lawyers’ offices, in probate court, and possibly for insurance companies, etc. An actual death certificate comes from the province, but is not required for most, or possibly any, of the dealings that are the responsibility of an executor or the family.
There have been several deaths in my family in the last few years, all with “death certificates” from Ontario funeral homes. No one had difficulty executing wills, dealing with banks, Cdn or ON gov’ts using those “certificates”.
For what it’s worth.
Another consideration which has been discussed here before but I will mention again for the benefit of newcomers, is the imposition of a 40%Tax on the Estates of so called ‘covered’ expatriates (be they non compliant expats or so called wealthy Expats who expatriated with over 2,000,000 ) who have US citizen or US resident heirs.
https://hodgen.com/gifts-bequests-inheritances-and-expatriation/
https://hodgen.com/covered-gift-and-bequest-from-covered-expatriate/
These proposals made and passed in Sept 2105 under section 2801 (but have not yet been finalized) put the responsibility on the recipient of the estate to file the gift tax form 708 which ‘will’ ask the US person recipient if the estate he/ she inherited was from a ‘covered expatriate’. It puts the responsibility on the shoulders of the heirs.
This question has not yet been included on form 708 but those affected should be vigilant for it’s appearance. Ignoring the form would be difficult for US heirs as any large inheritance/gift appearing in their bank account could ring alarm bells.
It’s an ill conceived move by the IRS as it would surely encourage any US heirs to also renounce or it would tempt the Estate holder to leave their estate to non US persons or charity.
@Queenston
I dont think the guy was trying to intimidate you. He was just stating fact. I keep my CLN in a VERY safe place too. I think you were burned and traumatised and that coloured the way you saw the situation. He actually congratulated you on having a CLN in a way…..that should feel like a relief. I know my CLN feels like a relief.
@Nononymous
Yes, the “uncertainty” is primarily what drove me to compliance. Having to look over my shoulder the rest of my life and the burden non-compliance might place on either a power of attorney or executor isn’t something I had the stomach for. What’s changed however is my intention to renounce, because like you I too hope that the situation on the ground will change before I no longer have control over the situation.
@The Mom. I guess I’m in good shape, because there is a town in Ontario with the exact same name as my US birthplace. Problem solved, lol.
Yes, I may have a little conversation with my executor this year, to clarify things. And my wife has been instructed to report a Canadian place of birth should I perish unexpectedly. Worst case, deathbed renunciation!
My sense is that the estate of a US person is much like a live US person – if it’s not compliant and off the radar the US has no obvious means finding it (unless the US personhood becomes known to the lawyers and the estate is subject to FATCA reporting) or collecting from it (assuming per usual no US assets). However, keeping the estate off the radar would place of the executor in the difficult position of being complicit in non-compliance, either willfully or non-willfully depending on what they knew about the deceased’s US status.
I’m perfectly comfortable taking that risk for myself while alive, but no so sure about leaving that for someone to deal with after I’m gone. I suppose the simplest thing would be to predecease my Canadian-only wife so that everything goes straight to her.
@heidi. Being a self-relinquisher, I suppose the IRS would consider me to be a covered expat because I never filed any of the crap associated with a relinquishment/renunciation. (Once you accept the fact that you are going to be a covered expat what’s the point of filing anything.) But, because I never applied for a CLN, the US State Dept never notified the IRS that I lost US citizenship. I don’t see how the IRS would have the slightest clue what my status is or was.
I will eventually be the beneficiary of a US estate when my surviving parent dies. This is money I don’t really need and it has occurred to me that one way to make sure the IRS never gets an opportunity to levy that 40% covered expat tax might be to disclaim all or at least a portion of that inheritance at the time I would otherwise receive it. This would have the effect of adding the disclaimed portion of my inheritance to the amount inherited by the other beneficiaries (in this case, my US resident siblings). Why not, because in a sane world they would be the ones who would eventually be my beneficiaries anyway. If the money never passed through my hands and never left the US I don’t see what the IRS could do about it because my siblings would not be inheriting anything from a covered expatriate. Meanwhile, on this side of the border, my solely Canadian estate would be left to solely Canadian beneficiaries. (Plus I could always just spend it or give it away before I die and bounce the last cheque, lol.)
I welcome other’s thoughts about this notion.
The covered expatriate estate tax is my one concern about renouncing and leaving it at that – if my daughter chose to take advantage of her US citizenship and move to the States, I wouldn’t want the IRS to skim 40 percent off an inheritance. That’s a long way into the future and she’s pretty aggressive about her Canadian identity and European connections, but one never knows. You go to grad school in the US, you meet a guy, shit happens…
Am I correct, though, in my understanding that US estate taxes are only an issue if the estate is worth more than US$5.25 million? In which case it’s probably not an issue for me just yet! The bigger concern is an executor feeling compelled to shove the estate into tax compliance (which would mean accounting costs and delays even if no taxes or penalties) because of personal liability.