reposted from MapleSandbox
by Lynne Swanson
#FATCA Americans overseas: Do NOT allow US tax pros scare u into entering US tax system. Many have no business entering!
— Keith REDMOND (@kredmond_global) January 19, 2017
Backing up the above tweet, Keith Redmond posted the following on Facebook:
Dear Members: I just had a lengthy, robust call with an individual who spent 25 years in upper management with the Department of Treasury IRS Criminal Investigation. He confirmed what I thought about the IRS. There is more bark than bite. He stated that there are many, many Americans overseas ho have no business in entering the US tax system and that Accidental Americans UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should enter the US tax system. He confirmed that there are MANY US tax pros who prey on Americans overseas and Accidental Americans through fear and falsehoods. (e.g. you will get arrested, etc.). Any US tax professional who pushes and scaremongers these individuals to comply are not professionals and should not be used! He confirmed that the IRS is NOT going to go after you in your country of residence (most especially if you are a citizen of that country) and the IRS is NOT going to arrest you at the US border. The IRS does not have the resources to do this plus they go after those who have committed a crime not the average American overseas. He stated that Americans overseas need to not succumb to the fear. Excellent conversation and I am glad my views have been validated.
This reflects what I have long believed. Unfortunately, there is still the nightmare of FATCA to deal with. In some countries, anyone born in the US cannot even get bank accounts. We are treated as criminals just for banking where we live.
I asked Keith how his contact explains and justifies this.
Keith replied:
He can’t. He finds the whole situation abhorent…
@JapanT
In addition to the treaty we do have legal precedents which have prevented IRS from robbing us in the past.
I don’t think its a false sense of security. It is simply a brick in a wall that so far, is still standing.
What’s keeping the IRS from using the private debt collection agency in our countries? I remember reading somewhere that they can now use collection agencies. What I read didn’t specifically say just within the US.
I don’t remember where, but maybe one of you who do this better might remember see this.
What worries me more is that IRS pretty much makes its own rules and I really wonder WHEN (not if) they will start selling our debt, pennies on the dollar, to private collectors world-wide. What’s to stop them?
Found it:
https://www.irs.gov/uac/newsroom/new-private-debt-collection-program-to-begin-next-spring-irs-to-contract-with-four-agencies-taxpayer-rights-protected
@Unforgiven
I seem to recall the conversation where it was said that bounty hunters are illegal in Canada; bailiffs exits and there are rules concerning collection agencies. Someone also said there are no laws to prevent agencies from a different country operating here but I do wonder about that………
I used to wonder what would stop US Police from coming to our doors since Canada has given them the right to do that but everyone has always said that is over-the-top.
I think worrying about this before there is any evidence of it happening is not helpful/useful and is harmful/reverse fearmongering. Be nice to yourself! We haven’t even heard from people who have heard anything from the IRS since info was exchanged (Sept 2015 & Sept 2016).
I don’t know that all countries would have the same rules but here is where things stand with collection agencies in Canada (different provinces have different regulations):
Collection Agencies
In Ontario a collection agency can:
The quick version, as I understand it, is that a collection agency can hound you day and night but ultimately they can’t touch your money without a court order. Which means a court would have to agree to someone collecting a tax debt on behalf of the IRS, which goes against the Canadian interpretation of the tax treaty, at least in cases where the “offender” was a Canadian citizen at the time the tax bill was incurred.
Under those circumstances I don’t think a Canadian collection agency would be wise to buy an American tax debt. In other words, I’ll believe it when I see it.
No, I am not a lawyer.
@Nononymous
No they cannot “hound you day and night.” Check out the links.
Sorry, I meant that metaphorically. They can hound you politely within reasonable limits. But only the courts can crack open your bank account, no?
“That said, there is NO evidence that the IRS has attacked Americans abroad.”
The IRS filed liens against me in an agency of the District of Columbia. The liens are visible on the web. They knew the second one was fraudulent at the time they filed it, and after calendar call in US Tax Court they settled that one for $0 (which they should have done without making me and my wife fly to the US) — but they haven’t released it, either. I’ve gradually figured out that they should have known the first one was fraudulent at the time they filed it too. They did release that one, and the release is also visible on the web, but it also should not have existed.
I’ve gradually figured out that this is part of they way they protect their embezzlers from getting caught. Some eventually have been caught but the ring leaders haven’t been caught yet. With a tax lien, everyone thinks I refused to pay tax and no one helps me.
Anyway, evidence is visible on the web.
“Citizens of Western Democracies (and especially the U.S. citizens) have been conditioned to believe that compliance with law is a virtue and that in a general sense that law reflects societal values and morality. After watching this discussion for the last five years, it’s clear to me that NOTHING could be further from the truth.”
Rosa Parks beat you to it.
“We seem to have reached Godwin’s law”
IBS has already been there before.
Meanwhile, don’t forget: The law is the law.
@Nononymous
Well, that’s what we think but who knows? We also thought Flaherty would be able to prevent FATCA…………(so did he)
Are you a Canadian citizen and resident and have you renounced U.S. citizenship and have paid or are subject to the U.S. Exit Tax (IRS 877A)? [No, I do not mean the $2350 fee.]
If so, we ask you to consider being a Witness in our Canadian FATCA IGA lawsuit.
You might have renounced U.S, citizenship but own, for example, a now valuable house (i.e., Canadian-made IRS asset eagerly waiting to be confiscated) in Toronto/Vancouver/London etc. and have (because interest rates are now very low) a very valuable IRS-asset-company pension (IRS wants percentage of cashed out total value of your CANADIAN pension)— and had/have to pay a U.S. exit tax.
— The value in U.S. dollars of your CANADIAN house, plus CANADIAN company pension, plus a few CANADIAN investments, might put you into “covered” territory where you, a CANADIAN, will be be punished for your success.
Information on the exit tax and examples of the exit tax can be found at the citizenshipsolutions.ca site.
If interested, email me at: Stephen.Kish.Chair@adcs-adsc.ca Your name and situation will be made public in a submission to the Federal Court of Canada.
Rats are leaving State, wonder if this good for those of us renouncing…
The Entire Senior Management Team At The State Department Just Resigned
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-26/entire-senior-management-team-state-department-just-resigned
@clarence
I doubt that has any impact on the future FATCA or CBT.
The State Department by all accounts wants nothing to do with enforcement of US tax law, to wit dropping the certification of tax compliance from the passport application (in favour of simply reporting the SSN) a few years ago, and the lack of evidence that data gathered from passport applications was ever sent to or used by the IRS to track down non-compliant citizens overseas.
The only implication I can see is delays for renunciation if turmoil at the top reaches down to the consular level.
This obviously has significance for US foreign policy and national security, as the tire fire in Washington intensifies, but that’s a different debate.
@Nononymous
Thanks for those comments. And as far as I can see, no State regulations for the passport revocation for tax debts were ever published (the law was passed in 2015). So that supports what you say.
On the other hand, State is the one that decided on the $2450 fee to renounce and was probably the very rats who are leaving State now who did that fee. And as reported many times in this forum, the fee is outrageous and illegal.
I would be curious to know who was behind the fee increase, and why, now that you mention it. But I expect that those decisions were made well below the level of the folks currently resigning. I doubt that renunciation fees have ever been a high priority for the State Department leadership.
As for the rest of it, drop the partisan “rats” – the shit going down in the foreign policy and national security establishment is serious – potentially far more threatening to my personal well-being than FATCA – and more importantly, not for debate here.
@Nonymouse, “As for the rest of it, drop the partisan “rats” – the shit going down in the foreign policy and national security establishment is serious – potentially far more threatening to my personal well-being than FATCA – and more importantly, not for debate here.”
You are right this is not the place for that debate. But let me state that Secretary Clinton would have likely taken the USA one closer step to war instead of Trump taking one step back.
There is an ebb and flow in upper level Washington corridors and those who cut their teeth in the last eight years will be very inclined to go and I tip my hat to such people as it is the right thing to do and not stay around when you disagree.
“Hi and thanks for all the interesting comment regarding “Accidental Americans”
I think, looking at the information on the following YouTube video, we may all fall into this catogory
The YT video I refer to is:- https://youtu.be/%5Bcensored%5D
This is presented, by Grand Cay Stratagies”
At about the 5 minute point of the 41 minute video, they started to hint at the substance of their tax evading strategy. We don’t need tax evading strategies to be spamvertised in this forum. We have enough trouble with honest taxpayers being abused.
“You are right this is not the place for that debate. But let me state that Secretary Clinton would have likely taken the USA one closer step to war instead of Trump taking one step back.”
One step closer than zero steps away would be minus one step, eh? Trump’s been pretty active in his first few days; how many wars has he withdrawn troops from and how many overseas CIA black prisons has he made initiatives towards closing?
Two criminal gangs can’t stand each other, oh too bad. You know how to partially avoid part of the fallout? Hint, all roads lead to there.
Thank you for alerting us on the contents of video presentation of Grand Cay Strategies, Norman Diamond. The comment you refer to has gone into moderation / unapproved.
“.. I’ll believe it when I see it.”
Sound advise in normal circumstances but in this environment that could be like closing the barn door AFTER the cows have escaped.
“With a tax lien, everyone thinks I refused to pay tax and no one helps me.”
What would happen if someone south of the border sent info of a lien filed against you in D.C. to your employer, or bank or whomever? Canadian law could not be used against those who sent the info. What protections would you have?
What recourse would you have if a debt collector in the US sent you a letter threatening you to pay or they will send this info to your employer, bank, etc?
These people do not play nice.
@PM
“Well, that’s what we think but who knows? We also thought Flaherty would be able to prevent FATCA…………(so did he)”
Exactly. The strongest defense you had has already been breached. If that wall can be felled, so can all others.
“And as far as I can see, no State regulations for the passport revocation for tax debts were ever published (the law was passed in 2015). So that supports what you say.”
The passed in Dec. 2015 and was signed early Jan. 2016, so just a year old. FBAR was on the books for over fourty years before it began to cause us trouble. It is too soon for many of these new laws to be implemented and far too soon to see any impact.
I am a fencer (of the Japanese variety of the art) so please allow me to use my experience facing off against an adversary to describe how I see our situation.
If I content myself to doing no more than parry the first blow without any preparedness for what comes after, I lose, for my opponent will certainly continue attacking until they find an opening or create an opening for a successful attack. The opponent continues with various attacks routes until successful or I score a hit.
We are unable to hit back at the IRS, we can only parry their attacks. They are on the attack, they will not stop after the first attack is parried but will press on with a new attack from a different quarter. If unsuccessful they will attack through yet another route. They will attack and attack and attack until successful.
After putting a lien against us, the IRS hires private collectors to go after us. We parry the attack with Canadian law restricting their activities in Canada. They counter with a letter sent from the US, outside the juristiction of Canadian law, informing us of the lien and threatening to send the information to our employers, banks, etc. How do we parry this? How will they attack next? How will we parry that attack? Then what?