Canadian Federal Court FATCA IGA lawsuit SUMMARY:
— PLAINTIFFS argue that throwing Canadians under the CRA-IRS bus, because they are deemed by United States or local bank teller to be “U.S. tax-persons”, violates Canada’s Charter of Rights and the Sovereignty of our country.
— PRIME MINISTER JUSTIN TRUDEAU (his representatives, the Attorney General and the Revenue Minister) argues that the United States is a mighty, powerful nation that must be feared: EVEN IF throwing a few million Canadian families under the bus “technically” violates Canada’s Charter and Sovereignty, it is ok, even praiseworthy, to do so — because of the economic sanction the United States “promises” to impose if Canada does not give up its once proud sovereignty.
— This is a new update with some timelines from the Canadian Federal Court showing what has to be done before we know the Charter-Constitutional trial date (taking place next year). In part, there will be motions and responses related to differences of opinions as to what documents and information have to be provided prior to trial.
We can’t provide or speculate on what will be in the Government Motion until the motion is formally received by the Registry Office:
“Order dated 22-DEC-2016 rendered by Roger Lafrenière, Esq., Prothonotary Matter considered with personal appearance
The Court’s decision is with regard to Case Management Conference [recently held by the parties to move the litigation forward]
Result:
Court Orders:
1. D [The Defendants — Attorney General and Revenue Minister] are granted leave to s/f [serve/file] their motion in writing for production of documents and particulars.
2. P [The Plaintiffs — Kazia, Ginny, and Gwen] shall s/f their responding motion record within 28 days from the date of service of the D motion referred to in paragraph 1 above
3. P are granted leave to bring their motion for summary trial [the Charter-Constitutional trial]. P are dispensed from s/f a motion record at this stage and shall instead s/f a notice of motion and contemporaneously serve their affidavit evidence [e.g. testimonies from our Witnesses and Expert Witnesses].
4. The timeline for the D to file a response to the P motion for summary trial is suspended until further order
5. Any further affs, docs, or particulars, and anything else req’d by any order resulting from the D’s motion referred to in para 1 above shall be produced by the Ps to the Ds within 30 days of such order
6. The parties shall make best efforts to schedule the Ds examinations for discovery of the Ps within 45 days of satisfaction of the requirements, if any, described in para 5 above
7. The parties shall requisition a CMC [Case Management Conference] as soon as possible following completion of the steps set out in para 5 and 6 above in order to, among other things: A) fix a timetable for completion of the steps leading to the hearing of the P motion for summary trial; and B) schedule the hearing of the P motion for summary trial.
Filed on 22-DEC-2016 copies sent to parties”
Sorry again for the slow pace.
— I noticed on Brock a recent comment that “Brock is populated with anonymouses who toe the curb.” but confirm that our Witnesses (as well as our Plaintiffs) have all been willing to “out themselves” publicly.
Stephen Kish
— Another update from the Federal Court on some timings related to our Canadian FATCA IGA lawsuit
Thank you for the update of the process. I noted that several steps have defined due dates from 28 days to 45 days, which points to us looking forward to the outcome this New Year 2017! May it go well! Happy New Year, Brockers!
Due to the persistence of our lawyers to thwart the delay tactics of the government, the Court has determined that Federal Government must now produce proof and particulars as to why they are characterizing the plaintiffs’ documents as inadequate.
Firm timelines now in place. Get the examinations of the plaintiffs scheduled if in fact you are going to examine them.
Gwen, Kazia and I have been prepared for some time and we are not the delay.
Onwards and upwards to 2017!
A special huge thank you to the many witnesses who are now participating with the three of us to demonstrate the actual and many consequences of the worst law ever written, and the failure of the Canadian government to protect its citizens affected by the gross over-reach and intrusion of US law into our sovereign nation.
We are not, nor have ever been second class citizens, tax evaders or Americans living in Canada.
We expect and demand equal Constitutional rights afforded to other Canadians.
Thanks for the update, Stephen. I look forward to having my Witness Affidavit published and my name revealed if anyone has not yet caught it. (I might have missed the name of the commenter who refers to all the anonymouses at Brock who toe the curb.) Our brave Plaintiffs certainly have had their names and details revealed for quite some time as they did anything but toe any curb.
May we see continued progress as we move forward with this litigation in 2017. Thanks for all the time and efforts of those in the background who work on our issues and to our Canadian litigation team.
Happy New Year to all who gather here at Brock as generous *US-deemed US citizens who live abroad or are affected from within the US* and who share their experience, expertise and, especially, support that is vital to each one of us so we are not ground down with the slow-moving of process to find justice.
@ Canadian Ginny
Oh thank you for making this update clearer. I got a bit lost in the legal wordage. (Easily done.) I think I’ve actually absorbed a bit of patience (sometimes … when I have to … I guess) from my husband but I imagine all our P’s and W’s are getting impatient with the D’s stalling tactics. Surgite to Court Date 2017!
Hey, my toe was on the curb not so long ago. 2-3 years ago. On Front Street in Toronto straddling the 18 inches of curb while holding a homemade sign.
@ Canadian Ginny
Oh thank you for making this update clearer.
@ Embee: that’s my job here, happy to accommodate. As I always advised my law students, your job is to make things clear and stop communicating to your clients in legalese. I expect the same from doctors, accountants, auto mechanics, computer geeks etc. or anyone who has been lucky enough to study and work in an area that others rely on.
@ Marie: I owe immense gratitude to those of you who were in the forefront and inspired me with your bravery to tag along.
@all Happy New Year!
Permit me to make this public announcement but I would be greatly amiss if I let this year pass without this deep felt acknowledgement.
There are so many to thank, the ADCS committee, the Brock/Maple Sandbox site and admins, and our supporters. All of you inspire me.
Most of all I want to acknowledge the two finest women I have been so privileged to come to know and work with: Gwen and Kazia. We have a special relationship that I doubt can be replicated in any other area of our lives. Not really triplet sisters as I tease, but sisters of the heart. If one feels a little down, the others pick her up. We celebrate each step that gets achieved ( like the update today) together and help each other endure the delays and requirements placed on us. All three of us are determined to get this done.
We can and do talk to our family members and friends who are supportive, but there is just something special amongst us, and the shorthand way we can talk to each other, that enables us to keep going under this intense spotlight of an unusual litigation. We know our lives have been changed from our pre-plaintiff days.
Please join me in raising a glass of a libation of your choice to: Gwen and Kazia. My partners in crime.
Happy New Year Gwen and Kazia. You are the best.
@ Ginny, Gwen and Kazia
Cheers! We applaud your grace and courage. Happy New Year! 🙂
Here here! Thank you Brockers!
I’m a US-only citizen living in Taiwan, no Canadian link. Hopefully this year I will be able to get citizenship and relinquish the US one. (Law changing–used to be you had to renounce first, then be stateless while you waited.)
Big front-page discussion of FATCA in one of the English dailies yesterday. Apparently some have noticed that it’s non-reciprocal:
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/national/national-news/2016/12/30/488046/In-Taiwan.htm
NB The estimate of 5000 US / Taiwan duals here is surely too low–I heard a figure of 40,000.
Yes, a special New Year’s toast to Gwen and Ginny and Kazia.
TO EVERYONE!!!
You have been inspirational for others of us in your coming forward. I love the stories of you supporting one another in your special bond. There are many good aspects of all the pain with these issues — mostly the support!
“(I might have missed the name of the commenter who refers to all the anonymouses at Brock who toe the curb.)”
Did the commenter actually give their name or was it another mouse?
“We are not, nor have ever been second class citizens, tax evaders or Americans living in Canada.”
Sure you are.
In the US, Congress gets to decide who’s a second class citizen. The 14th amendment decides some of who’s a first class citizen, but Congress gets to decide others (naturalized at birth by being born in the rest of the world to parent(s) who match specified profiles, or being naturalized by other methods). Congress gets to decide who’s a second class citizen (non-citizen nationals). Congress gets to decide who’s a third class citizen (someone who would be a first class citizen if they lived in the US, but who doesn’t live in the US and is therefore a tax evader). Congress also gets to decide who’s a tax evader (someone who would be a first class citizen or green card holder or former green card holder if they lived in the US, but who doesn’t live in the US). Congress also gets to decide who’s an American living in Canada (someone who would be a first class citizen or green card holder or former green card holder if they lived in the US, but who hasn’t yet committed suicide or succumbed to heart failure).
In Canada, Congress has spoken. Also Trudeau gets to decide who’s a second class citizen, if Congress forgot to speak for somebody.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2016/12/25/be-careful-what-you-fix-for-a-holiday-gift-what-to-do-about-the-unfiled-fbar/comment-page-1/#comment-7767262
usxcanada says
December 27, 2016 at 9:05 pm (Edit)
Charlese1983 –
Well, Brock certainly DOES have any number of anonymouses, who do not reveal their identities, whether or not they toe the curb. LOL Calgary411 & Marie…….
@ Patricia Moon
He’s anonymous too and since he dotted all i’s and crossed all t’s when he executed his perfect exit then I’d say he toed the IRS’s curb.
@embed, thank you for that last post of explanation as that provides clarity.
I shall use up some of my good will here at ibs and take a liberty I would not otherwise take as a gentlemen with an expression that it appears usxcanada grabbed their ankles and smiled as they exited.
@Ginny I say respectfully you are not an American nor an Eritrean nor a Cambodian regardless what they may say but I say sadly your government of Canada spat on you and made you a second class Canadian.
The son of a great Canadian spat on a loyal daughter of Canada.
@Stephen Kish and Canadian Ginny – Thank you for the update. As the new year approaches, let me add my thanks to the ADCS board, the plaintiffs and the witnesses for all you’ve done, and for being willing to be named publicly. It will take many people like you to fight and win the battle against FATCA and CBT.
Happy New Year!
I join the cheer for Ginny, Gwen, and Kazia. Clink!
Thank you all for being our plaintiffs! I have great hope for you three and Joe Arvay prevailing in court THIS New Year!
Ginny, thanks for your succinct explanation. I grasped that there were firm timelines in place; I didn’t understand what they were for. Thanks for explaining that the gov’t must “produce proof and particulars as to why they are characterizing the plaintiffs’ documents as inadequate” and schedule in the examinations of the plaintiffs. Got it.
@Zla’od, It is refreshing to read an article where the national finance minister’s decision to comply with FATCA is questioned and seen as unfair.
Too often I read the opposite: where the gov’ts treat one or more of its citizens unfairly. Like yesterday’s post on Martin Armstrong’s blog where he relates that the life savings of a 91-year-old lady in Sweden is CONFISCATED because she tried to deposit them in a bank but couldn’t prove how she first got these bank notes (money). “Because the woman had no proof of where they came from, the bank refused to receive notes with reference to the Riksbank’s regulations. The woman appealed to the Administrative Court explaining that she was not a criminal and not present a criminal record. She has lived efficient and economical, and now wanted to splurge a little during his last years of life….The government stole the life savings of a 91 year-old woman who wanted to splurge before she died.”
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/taxes/91-year-old-woman-court-sides-with-bank-her-cash-saving-illegal/
In the subsequent post to the one above, Armstrong comments: “Just more confiscation because ALL governments now PRESUME we are all guilty and it is our BURDEN to prove we are innocent.” Yup, that sums up our ADCS lawsuit case.
Thank you for the update, Stephen, and your translation of that update, Ginny.
Happy New Year everyone. I’m burning an effigy of 2016 tonight.
Thanks to Stephen and Ginny for the update and all plaintiffs and witnesses. Happy New Year to all! We’ll see what happens with the Canadian lawsuit in 2017. I have hope.
This December 2016, I celebrated my second anniversary of freedom through expatriation. Not that expatriation is or should be for everyone. It’s very distasteful to renounce the country of one’s birth to avoid being taxed to death in retirement as a dual citizen. I renounced December 16, 2014. However, now this goes on my calendar every year as “Liberation Day”. A new holiday with new meaning.
Thanks for everyone’s good wishes. Happy New Year to all of us!
I plan to be around more than I have been. Had been taking a FATCA break, as well working a lot lately, but I will be back in the thick of the fight in the new year.
Toasts to you Ginny, Kazia, the ADCS directors, and all the witnesses and supporters in Canada and around the world!
Surgite 2017!
“it appears usxcanada grabbed their ankles and smiled as they exited.”
I complied as I exited, but I did not grab my ankles; I had already been raped.
At the time of renouncing I was really torn up, but a few days later I figured out I had mostly escaped from the Mafia. I’m still fighting for what they embezzled from me, and my heart was injured to the point of needing surgery, but I mostly escaped.
“The Latest: Washington penalized for 12 men on field”
Yeah? Why aren’t they punished for abusing innocent people?
Oh, wrong Washington. And they’re talking about sports.