Karen is organising a group to take anti-FATCA/CBT action in Australia and has launched the website Let’s Fix the Australia US Tax Treaty!
The mission of Let’s Fix the Australia/US Tax Treaty! is to press for amendments to the Australia/US Tax Treaty and the FATCA IGA to eliminate discrimination against a subclass of Australian citizens that is also disadvantageous to all Australians. We plan to gather the voices of those impacted, including Australian-only family members, and highlight the obligation of the Australian Government to defend its sovereignty and protect Australians against US extraterritorial law.
The purpose of Let’s Fix the Australia/US Tax Treaty! is twofold:
First, to encourage affected Australians to write to their elected representatives to lobby for change on the Australian side of this equation. Australia has signed two agreements with the US that allow this to continue: the Double Tax Agreement (Tax Treaty) and the FATCA IGA. The Tax Treaty was last amended in 2001 and does not provide for US recognition of the tax-advantaged status of superannuation. There are other portions of the treaty that guarantee the double taxation of dual citizens resident in Australia. Our Australian government must put pressure on the US to come to the table an re-negotiate the Tax Treaty.
Second, to serve as an educational resource for both the affected dual citizens trying to understand how the Tax Treaty affects them AND to help educate our elected representatives on the problems caused by Australia’s capitulation to one-sided US demands.
The Australians have been very active and this is a great new development.
Regarding this new website, JC commented on another thread:
In Australia we are out to make some “noise.” On the Day Roy Berg presents to the Tax Institute of Australia seminar on superannuation, on US taxation and Australian Superannuation, a new website aimed at the injustices has been launched:
Best wishes for making lots of “noise” and effecting much needed change!
@Karen
I want to salute you and your colleagues for this initiative and offer you all my support and encouragement. Every nation is a sovereign one, and though our individual country issues may vary, our commonality remains the same. Make some noise, enough that I can hear you roar from Canada. These one-sided demands from the USA must be stopped. Sovereign nations must come to know among other things, that there will never be any reciprocity from the USA no matter their promises.
Bravo Australia!
Thanks, Pacifica for posting this. And thanks to Canadian Ginny and everyone else for your support.
Please come visit our site and feel free to participate in the discussion there. I expect we will be linking to many Brock posts/comments that are relevant to our problems, and some of the issues we face will be relevant to you.
Roger Conklin wrote this just before he died and I saved it for it’s brilliant logic.
“The US would also be far better off with residence-based, rather than citizenship-based taxation. The United States is one of two members of that “Exclusive Club of Nations” that taxes income on the basis of citizenship; the other “club member” being Eritrea. The US citizen who lives outside of the United States is not only subject to the tax laws of the country where he lives, but also to US taxation as if he had never left home. Even if the foreign earned income exclusion and the applications of foreign tax credits reduce the US tax liability to zero, he must still file a US tax return and as many as 16 additional and highly complex IRS tax forms to prove it. Otherwise he is assumed to be guilty of tax evasion and subject to severe penalties, even though he owes no US tax. But for many persons living abroad who possess US citizenship, “home” is where they were born, raised and have always lived, since they inherited US citizenship by virtue of having been born abroad to a US citizen parent and have never in their whole lives ever even visited the US, held a US passport; nor do they speak a word of English. They were born with dual citizenship in another country.
Eretria was condemned by UN Security Council Resolution 2020 (2011) in December 2011 for its practice of citizenship-based taxation because it violates the UN Declaration of Universal Human Rights which guarantees that every person shall be freely able to leave and return to any country; including his or her own. Leading the charge in the approval of this resolution was Susan Rice, who was then US Ambassador to the United Nations. Never mind that the US policy with respect to its citizens residing abroad is exactly the same as that of Eritrea.
It is a clear case of “don’t do as I do, but do as I say.” Some would call it American Exceptionalism – there is one set of rules for the US but another set for everybody else. The 2010 FATCA legislation which was tacked on to the HIRE Act was approved overwhelmingly by Congress. It is extraterritorial in its reach in that it obligates foreign banks in the 192 other countries of the world to reveal to the IRS by submitting the IRS FATCA Form 8966 for every account on which a US person is listed as one of its holders. In effect it requires that foreign banks violate the privacy laws of their own countries in releasing confidential bank account data to a foreign government, subjecting them to severe penalties on financial transactions with the US if they fail to become certified as compliant with this legislation. These reports must be in English with foreign currency values converted to US dollars.
What would be the reaction of the US Congress if the other 192 nations of the world were to enact legislation obligating US banks to provide identical reports on all their citizens resident in the US, in the language of that country and with dollar values converted to the equivalent value in each of their own currencies?
The only common-sense solution to this dilemma is for the US to join the rest of the world by replacing citizenship-based with residence-based taxation. If you are a US citizen this likely will disqualify you for employment outside of the US. Forget about marrying a foreign citizen and relocating to your spouse’s country of citizenship, unless you are prepared to renounce your US citizenship. Otherwise you will likely not be able to survive without a bank account in the country where you live or hold any property or accounts jointly with your foreign spouse, lest their income is also taxed by the US and their estate subject to US estate taxes when they die.”
Roger Conklin wrote the preceding article. He is correct but the solution is not just to repeal the stupid foreign aspects of the tax law, but to repeal the entire Marxist Income Tax Code. Here is the only logical taxing system to stop massive evasion of taxes and provide revenue to operate the government.
1. Repeal the 16nth and 17nth amendment to the constitution that allow taxation of income that was originally prohibited by the framers and go back to appointing Senators as they wrote into the original document. How else can we change governments in a timely manner. When the voters speak their will is thwarted by 6 year elections, staggered so that the majority party stays in power long after they are no longer the majority.
2. Repeal all Federal Tax Laws.
3. Disband the IRS. Every president of every party gets someone in the IRS to screw his enemies and never gets put into jail, because the government Pukes protect each other.
4. Pass the FairTax, a National Sales tax on new goods, sold at retail and retail services. All taxes are paid by the end consumer any way, but they affect the poor the most. The FairTax essentially eliminates taxes on the poor, as opposed to the current taxing system, which makes them pay all the embedded taxes as well as the payroll taxes.
5. Get out of the way and let capitalism work again.
We learn from the best and experience here at Brock.
JakDac did get a reply from our Australian Treasurer Scott Morrison, in regards to a well explained letter on the injustices of Double Taxation. This was the result of a visit with a local MP, with letter referred to an Australian Senator, then referred by the Senator to the Treasurer, then relayed back via the Senator.
And the response: “it is a matter for the US Government in the first instance.” Haven’t we heard this before in Canada and around the world? (I even heard it direct in an e-mail from Richard Pound, President of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association.)
There is a task of education and impressing that the Australia/US Tax Treaty and Australia FATCA IGA are Australian laws harming Australians on Australian soil. This was my response to the letter from Australian Treasurer Scott Morrison: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/fatca-and-australia/comment-page-33/#comment-7561948
@JC, that letter http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/fatca-and-australia/comment-page-33/#comment-7561948 is very very good. Much of it also applies to the tax gaps in the Canada/US treaty – and the willful negligence (collusion?) of our government in assisting the US Treasury to fund the US government at the direct expense of Canadian taxpayer, citizens and residents – and allowing the treaty to stand with such harms intact.
Thanks to you and your fellow Australians for sharing your efforts. We will follow you with interest – all for one, one for all!
One of the most useful and insightful resources we had here was the early participation, critical analysis, and experiences recounted by ‘Just Me’ – a NZ/US (with Australian spouse). He has been a stalwart here from the beginning, and several of the threads on the right are his (See ex. http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/02/04/letters-to-shulman-or-a-case-study-of-ovdp-communication-attempts-with-the-irs/ ). He also early on alerted us to the ramifications of FATCA and GATCA (a term I think he coined). He saved many of us from OVD hell.
Perhaps the Australian government can be shamed by pointing out how Canada’s treaty with the US confers more protections for retirement funds that Australia received. Our treaty is full of gaping holes, but at least much progress was made on treaty and policy treatment of our RRSP/RRIFs since the early days (ex. http://hodgen.com/the-ultimate-rrsp-and-the-irs-essay/ ).
@Karen and Pacifica
Very good to see anti-FATCA/CBT action being taken in Australia. Also great that you’ve developed a website. I hope this spreads to other countries around the globe.
@Badger
The Australian government is aware of the better treaty terms in Canada and elsewhere. Last night I posted in the AU Tax Treaty group on FB a quote from one of the replies we received from Treasury (signed by a politician, but you can be sure Treasury staff approved it). When I’m at my computer I’ll copy it here.
@PatCanadian
Thank you. Now the hard work begins for our group in Australia.
I hope to see citizens in more countries join in the fight against US extra-territorial taxation and hypocrisy.
Here’s the response I got from Australia’s Acting Assistant Treasurer in July 2014:
There’s minimal recognition that the treaty is BI-lateral and the Australia can push for treaty negotiation to be expedited rather than just waiting for the US to say “boo”!
@All
According to wikipedia Rebekha Sharkie MP has American parents.
“Sharkie moved to Australia as a two-year-old. Her parents are British and American”
Rebekha.Sharkie.MP@aph.gov.au
According to wikipedia “Sharkie moved to Australia as a two-year-old. Her parents are British and American”
@billy – thanks for that. One of the people who completed my earlier survey is in her electorate (Mayo in SA).
Rebekha Sharkie MP – Nick Xenophon team. @MakeMayoMatter twitter.
Way to go, Australian colleagues! Your latest efforts to bring pressure to bear on your government is great news indeed! Every success to all of you!
Parliament of Australia. Senators and Members by Place of Birth.
This is a list of all Senators and Members in the current Parliament arranged by place of birth:
http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/Parliamentary_Handbook/mpsbyplc
There are 26 MP’s and Senators who were born outside of Australia. None were born in the United States.
Doesn’t list the birthplace of parents, siblings or spouses though.
Bill Hayden’s (former Leader of the Opposition – Labor and former GG) father was born in California.
Oops! The list is current as of 29 June 2015. Philip Ruddock is in the list – he has since retired.
Sorry!
Thanks for that Ellen – I’ll check back with that site in a month or two – they should update it for the new parliament.
@MuzzledNoMore – thanks for your encouragement!
@all
According to sydney morning herald Andrew Hastie liberal MP is married to an American
“Hastie, looking like a young US presidential candidate, delivered a superbly rehearsed speech, vehemently defending his record, speaking of his American-born wife Ruth and their newborn baby”
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/canning-byelection-candidate-andrew-hastie-holds-tony-abbotts-political-future-in-his-hands-20150908-gjhris.html
http://www.andrewhastie.com.au
@billie Andrew Hastie does not have a twitter account.
@billy and @JC
1. Andrew Hastie is the member for Canning – one of the survey respondents is in that electorate.
2. This type of information would be best collected either on the FB group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/FixTheTaxTreaty/) or better yet on the website (http://fixthetaxtreaty.org/) – I could put a page under “Act” to collect suggestions about who to contact.
I’ve added the page “Contact Suggestions” http://fixthetaxtreaty.org/act/contact-suggestions/
According to the Australian Constitution, duals can not serve. There was an Australian US person sidelined in Liberal Party preselection because they were a US person.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newslocal/south-west/citizenship-of-two-nations-stalls-federal-bid/news-story/89b80782bfa039241466b52b5f680ead
There is some commentary saying that other countries allow duals and so should Australia: Neither the United States nor the United Kingdom have a similar rule, with the UK even allowing non-British Commonwealth citizens to become prime minister
http://electionwatch.unimelb.edu.au/articles/wed-get-better-candidates-if-we-changed-the-rules
How about Canada?
@JC:
Duals can serve in Canada. For example, the most recent leader of the federal NDP – and candidate for prime minister in the last election here;
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/thomas-mulcair-defends-dual-citizenship-1.1184291
“..Mulcair said dual citizenship has never been an issue for Quebecers, many of whom are also citizens of France.
“For us, it’s just a symbol of the richness of Canada.” …. .”
A previous Liberal candidate for Prime Minister and former head of our federal Liberal Party (2006 to 2008) is/was also a dual (Canada / France) – Stephan Dion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St%C3%A9phane_Dion
Though opponents have tried to make dual citizenship an issue, it is not a legal barrier to election as a Parliamentarian in Canada.
See also;
http://www.cbc.ca/news2/background/parliament39/mps-dualcitizenship.html
Which had a list in 2006 of MPs at the time, who may have had dual citizenship or potentially may have qualifed to claim dual status:
From the CBC:
“Here’s a list of current MPs born in other countries, which could qualify them for dual citizenship. CBC.ca contacted these MPs.
1. Diane Ablonczy, Alberta Conservative, was born in the United States. She doesn’t hold dual citizenship.
2. Omar Alghabra, Ontario Liberal, was born in Saudi Arabia. He has dual citizenship with Syria through his parents and uses a Canadian passport.
3. Vivian Barbot, Quebec Bloc Québécois, was born in Haiti. She doesn’t hold dual citizenship.
4. Sue Barnes, Ontario Liberal, was born in Malta. She is eligible for Maltese citizenship, but hasn’t taken it.
5. Maurizio Bevilacqua , Ontario Liberal, was born in Italy. He’s no longer an Italian citizen and his spokesperson says he has no interest in whether he’s eligible or not.
6. John Cannis, Ontario Liberal, was born in Greece. He doesn’t have dual citizenship.
7. Raymond Chan, British Columbia Liberal, was born in Hong Kong. He has dual citizenship with Britain.
8. Chris Charlton, Ontario NDP, was born in Germany. She does not hold dual citizenship.
9. Olivia Chow, Ontario NDP, was born in China. She does not hold dual citizenship.
10. Tony Clement, Ontario Conservative, was born in England. His office did not return calls.
11. Libby Davies, British Columbia NDP, was born in England. She believes she has dual citizenship because she has never renounced it, but she uses only a Canadian passport.
12. Sukh Dhaliwal, British Columbia Liberal, was born in India. When he moved to Canada, India did not allow dual citizenships. Now, though he’s eligible to renew his Indian citizenship, he says, “At this point in time, I am a Canadian citizen.”
13. Ujjal Dosanjh, British Columbia Liberal, was born in India. When he arrived in Canada in 1968, dual citizenship wasn’t allowed for India.
14. Steven Fletcher, Manitoba Conservative, was born in Brazil. He says, “I was eligible [for Brazilian citizenship] but chose not to take it because I didn’t want to be drafted into the army.”
15. Raymonde Falco, Quebec Liberal, was born in France. She doesn’t hold dual citizenship.
16. Hedy Fry, British Columbia Liberal, was born in Trinidad and Tobago. She doesn’t hold dual citizenship, though she is eligible.
17. Nina Grewal, British Columbia Conservative, was born in Japan, went to school in India, and lived in Liberia. She does not hold dual citizenship.
18. Albina Guarnieri, Ontario Liberal, was born in Italy. She doesn’t hold dual citizenship, though she is eligible.
19. Rahim Jaffer, Alberta Conservative, was born in Uganda. He came to Canada as a refugee, so he does not maintain any citizenship claims with Uganda.
20. Jim Karygiannis, Ontario Liberal, was born in Greece. He holds dual citizenship.
21. Wajid Khan, Ontario Liberal, was born in Pakistan. He holds dual citizenship and has Canadian and Pakistani passports.
22. Maka Kotto, Quebec Bloc Québécois, was born in Cameroon. He, as a dual citizen, holds a French passport in addition to his Canadian one.
23. Gurbax Malhi, Ontario Liberal, was born in India. He doesn’t hold dual citizenship.
24. Inky Mark, Manitoba Conservative, was born in China. He doesn’t hold dual citizenship. He is eligible to recover his Chinese citizenship, but his spokesperson says he has no desire to do so.
25. Keith Martin, British Columbia Liberal, was born in England. His citizenship status is unknown, as his spokesperson says that he doesn’t like to give out personal information.
26. Tony Martin, Ontario NDP, was born in Ireland. While being Irish is a big part of his life, he does not hold dual citizenship.
27. Maria Minna, Ontario Liberal, was born in Italy. When she came to Canada, she had to relinquish her Italian citizenship. She would be eligible for renewal.
28. Maria Mourani, Quebec Bloc Québécois, was born in the Ivory Coast. She used to hold Lebanese (through her parents) and Ivory Coast passports in addition to her Canadian one. Both have expired, but she is still eligible for them.
29. Deepak Obhrai, Alberta Conservative, was born in Tanzania. He doesn’t hold dual citizenship.
30. Daniel Petit, Quebec Conservative, was born in Belgium. He only holds a Canadian passport.
31. Yasmin Ratansi, Ontario Liberal, was born in Tanzania. She doesn’t hold dual citizenship.
32. Pablo Rodriguez, Quebec Liberal, was born in Argentina. He holds dual citizenship.
33. Michael Savage, Nova Scotia Liberal, was born in Northern Ireland. He holds dual citizenship with the United Kingdom, but uses a Canadian passport.
34. Mario Silva, Ontario Liberal, was born in Portugal. He holds dual citizenship and uses a Canadian passport.
35. Peter Stoffer, Nova Scotia NDP, was born in the Netherlands. He became a Canadian citizen in 1980. He says, “I’m a Canuck now.”
36. Andrew Telegdi, Ontario Liberal, was born in Hungary. He doesn’t hold dual citizenship.
37. Lui Temelkovski, Ontario Liberal, was born in Macedonia. He uses a Canadian passport, but hasn’t renounced his Macedonian rights. He says, “I wouldn’t have a problem with a passport from there because that’s where I was born.”
38. Myron Thompson, Alberta Conservative, was born in the United States. He holds dual citizenship.
39. Vic Toews, Manitoba Conservative, was born in Paraguay. He doesn’t hold dual citizenship.
40. Joe Volpe, Ontario Liberal, was born in Italy. When he got his Canadian citizenship, he wasn’t allowed to hold two.
41. John Williams, Alberta Conservative, was born in Scotland. His spokesperson couldn’t comment on his citizenship “
What a fantastic addition to the Brock site. I look forward to your continued progress!
@Bubblebustin-
Isaac Brock Society made it all possible providing a forum where a few of us from Australia got in contact with each other. Especially, that FATCA and Australia page.
Many thanks.