"I complied with human rights-violating U.S. renunciation rules — and this leaves a bitter taste." https://t.co/H5qRkzhxxq
— Citizenship Lawyer (@ExpatriationLaw) August 24, 2016
Click on the link in the above tweet to see the complete discussion.
The bottom line is that Dr. Stephen Kish – Chair of the Alliance For The Defence of Canadian Sovereignty and plaintiff in the Bopp FATCA Lawsuit, has formally renounced U.S. citizenship. He performed this act in Iceland which is the final resting place of Robert James Fischer – one of the most famous and well known cases of U.S. citizenship relinquishment.
“No other people face such nonesense. No other document causes such concern.”
Yes others do, including some temporary (non-permanent) residents of Japan who don’t even have any connection to the US, and including you if you lose your wallet. If police command you to present your residence card and don’t understand that the reason you can’t present your residence card is that your wallet was stolen, you’re in trouble — though in your particular case your skin colour and citizenship (if your passport wasn’t stolen) will likely keep you from being arrested.
And when my wallet was stolen, I made a report and got another card. CLN stolen, lost in a fire, tsunami, then what?
I and every other non Japanese learned when getting our visas that we would be always required to carry our gaijin card with us and what the consequenses for not having would be.
I and all non Japanese share in this and by our choosing to accept the visas we applied for, knowingly and willing accepted the responsibilities that came with it.
Not at all similar to a CLN. As others have posted, law does not require it. Law does require we carry our gaijin cards. The requirement to carry the gaijin card was known and knowable before entering the country. FATCA and the application of FBAR to overseas Americans, was not knowable before leaving the States nor even afterwards for most.
This comparision doesn’t pass muster.
We’re all still slaves on the plantation…of the United States of America
http://fatcarebel.blogspot.ca/2016/08/were-all-still-slaves-on-plantation.html
…and subject to the whims of the patty-rollers unless you have your emancipation documents.
Here. I made ’em up a badge…saves them the trouble of having to get a designer.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HbX6miBsyzU/V8YyFjk_McI/AAAAAAAAABQ/CAWSskjQYewCh6Ld1g7ajuvTYVcVaXKdgCPcB/s1600/RunawaySlavePatrolBadge.jpg
@The Animal
I’m going to suggest that no matter how much free advice someone gives out, anyone who earns a living from enforcing US taxation against non-residents agrees with CBT. Otherwise, how could they do it?
“Secondly I am helping my wife pursue her Canadian citizenship. It may not help her out of the current situation but if we lay low long enough, perhaps the statute of limitations will run out on all the years that she’s gone as a PR and will only be valid for the years that she will be a Canadian. So there is the “productive part” of my outrage.”
I hate to raise your blood pressure even more, but the SOL does not run out on non-filed US tax returns. Sorry…
‘“He probably meant he didn’t like how the Harper government went about making some Canadians second-class citizens”
I guess he probably meant those Arab “suspected terrorists” and not good ol’ Joe C (for Canuck) “I don’t wanna be an” American Citizen.’
Arab “SUSPECTED terrorists” just like we are SUSPECTED tax evaders and some of us who have been framed by the IRS’s internals embezzlers are SUSPECTED and ACCUSED of committing fraud.
Maybe suspects shouldn’t be punished until they change to convicts?
Oh, well, they’re still only getting five years if we choose to file before she makes her exit. Meanwhile, I’ll just enjoy my Nikon cameras and lenses. They can all go fuck themselves. 😛
“Maybe suspects shouldn’t be punished until they change to convicts?”
I wouldn’t give them ideas if I were you.
“I’m going to suggest that no matter how much free advice someone gives out, anyone who earns a living from enforcing US taxation against non-residents agrees with CBT. Otherwise, how could they do it?”
bubblebustin’ I one hundred percent agree with you. No matter how much they may say they are opposed to it, nobody is going to cook the golden goose.
“And when my wallet was stolen, I made a report and got another card.”
As I said, your skin colour and your citizenship (assuming your passport wasn’t stolen) likely kept you from getting arrested when you made your report.
“CLN stolen, lost in a fire, tsunami, then what?”
I don’t know if you can send a copy of your copy[*] to the embassy and ask them to send a duplicate. Do you know?
[* Either copied from one of the copies that you stored elsewhere, or printed from your scanned file that you also stored on several drives[**]]
[** There are two kinds of computer users: those who make backups, and those who someday will wish they did.]
“This comparision doesn’t pass muster.”
It wasn’t a comparison. You said no other document has the critical importance that if you don’t have it you’re in big trouble. There are other documents with that critical importance.
No, I said of “such” importance.
I have never been exposed to the potential closing of a bank account, period. I have never been exposed to the knowledge of anyone having to provide any other document to maintain a currently held bank account, period.
By not having having my gaijin card on my person, I would be breaking the law of the nation in which I reside. I would not be breaking Japanese law by not having a CLN.
While I have had to show my passport to current employers to show that I still had a visa, this is common to all noncitizens and was understood upon accepting employment with them.
No other document compares to the CLN. The closest would be a receipt of self purchase out of slavery from the days of slavery in the US, as Animal points out. Those have not been in existance in our lifetime, however.
Oh, and my children, being Japanese citizens, are not required to carry a gaijin card but would still need a CLN to avoid problems with their bank.
Nope, the CLN is unique. It defies comparison in the modern world.
“CLN stolen, lost in a fire, tsunami, then what?”
I don’t know if you can send a copy of your copy[*] to the embassy and ask them to send a duplicate. Do you know?
No. What I do know, is that many are waiting a long time for their first CLN. I know that I am still awaiting a response for the FOIA request that you and I worked on. I know that I am still waiting for three months of Leave an Earnings Statements (the US navy’s version of a W-2) from 1992 that I never received.
I doubt that anyone has even thought about even thinking about even considering that there might possibly be a need for a system to replace lost CLNs yet. They won’t until a large enough number of people make enough noise to be heard by those in the ivory tower.
Until then, you live without a bank account, and good luck to you.
This should brighten your day, The Animal.
Despite warnings from the US,
Canada considers investing in new Asian infrastructure bank in China:
“American officials warned that the new bank would provide loans to developing countries without requiring any caveats about the environment, labour rights or anti-corruption reforms, as are typically included in loans from the World Bank and International Monetary Fund.
Former Canadian diplomat Charles Burton of Brock University in St. Catharines, Ont., said a Canadian decision to join the bank would signal that Canada is prepared to see China take a seat at the table in terms of having input on the global economic landscape.”
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-invest-infrastructure-bank-1.3742097
@The Animal
Let me rephrase that. The news may brighten your day at the prospect Canada snubbing the US, but darken it with possibility of increased Chinese influence over the Vancouver housing market, considering China’s consul general is critical of the new foreign purchaser’s tax (after initially approving of it):
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-29/furious-chinese-envoy-slams-vancouver-real-estate-tax-local-housing-market-implodes
“China has capital controls on, and Vancouver has become the money laundering mecca of either the world or North America, and something is going to change and change drastically.”
http://www.businessinsider.com/people-are-freaking-out-over-canadas-housing-market-2016-8
@Pacifica 777
What good is a fact if you can’t prove it. Yes, one who has relinquished is no longer a USC but that does not matter if their bank requires a CLN as proof of the fact and the former USC does not have a CLN.
In fact, loss of nationality is NOT required, only the piece of paper “certifying” the supposed act. If my bank asks for proof that I am no longer a USC and I can produce a CLN, then their needs are met and I keep my account, even if the CLN was counterfeit, I still being a USC.
If I am in truth no longer a USC but do not have a CLN, the bank’s needs not being met, I lose my account. It is not the act that is required, but “proof” of the act. In different words, the act of relinquishing is not the determining factor, presenting a CLN is. Phil’s analogy still misses a very important point. He simply does not understand the environment for many of us outside the US.
Have you ever gone to the hospital feeling as bad as you could imagine only to have the doctor, whom you are meeting for the first time greet you with a cheerful , “Good morning, how are you feeling today?”. I, having been brought up to avoid hospitals as they are dangerous and only for sick people, wanted to reply, “Why doc, come to think of it, I feel fine. In fact, I do not know why I took time out of my busy day to pay you a visit. I think I’ll go home now, thank you.”. The doc clearly had no clue that people who visit a hospital are feeling horrible or else they would not be there. Because the doc did not understand this basic point, it caused me to doubt his over all ability and knowledge.
P H clearly does not understand the need many have for the CLN. He has demonstrated that he does not know the purposes for the many who are seeking it. He does not understand how the CLN operates in the real world.
Same for my children.
I feel the same way as Animal. If he is so opposed, why does he not use his professional knowledge and skill to make money fighting it instead of taking money from his felow citizens whom are being abused by it?
“Canada considers investing in new Asian infrastructure bank in China:” – YAYYYY!!!! ~jumping up and down~ One more strike to the US $ being the currency transact amongst the world.
My day was sufficiently brightened by my oldest son making the Surrey Minor Hockey Association Bantam Rep A2 team today. That is the reason why cash for my wife to get her CDN citizenship is so lean at the moment. We put our kids first with the modest income that we make…and that’s the reason why I give the middle finger to the US of A and those scumbag leeches who proliferate amongst the 99%. We don’t make a lot. Last year we were lucky to make $25K. But if it keeps my son from hanging out with a bunch of delinquents and gives him something to be proud of (his sports abilities), then I don’t care about the cost.
As I’ve said before, The US and their moneygrubbing leeches can go FUCK themselves.
Congrats!
“I know that I am still waiting for three months of Leave an Earnings Statements (the US navy’s version of a W-2) from 1992 that I never received.”
I presume BuPERS is probably taking their sweet-ass time with it, I presume or the request for the L&E Statements got lost in the circular file?
I heard it once said that the Navy BuPERS response time is much like two elephants having sex: A lot of bellowing, screaming and butting heads and no results for two years…
“I heard it once said that the Navy BuPERS response time is much like two elephants having sex: A lot of bellowing, screaming and butting heads and no results for two years…”
Hmm, I wonder why they’re better than other government agencies?
Usually an interaction between a human and a government agency is like one elephant and one human having sex, with the elephant on top, lots of bellowing and screaming from below, and no results at all.
@Bubblebustin
I’m going to suggest that no matter how much free advice someone gives out, anyone who earns a living from enforcing US taxation against non-residents agrees with CBT.
Phil Hodgen’s firm does US investment for non-resident aliens to protect them from US taxes, and US citizen (and green card) expatriations. If you want another (dodgy? clumsy?) analogy, I see him as part of the modern-day ‘underground railroad‘ that helps people to freedom, rather than an enforcer trying to keep them enslaved.
@ Japan T,
Re:
I agree in the banking context, if confronted with the accusation of being a US citizen, proof of loss is the determining factor.
The CLN is really efficient proof because it’s widely recognised and should be very easily understood by a bank employee, but it also looks like self-documentation of a relinquishment could be used per the Japan-US IGA.
Japan-US IGA, Annex I (II)(B)(4)(a)(3)(a) (page 16)
This is what I just received from one of the members of Republicans Overseas. I don’t have a link yet. This appears to be good news:
“BREAKING: Israeli Supreme Court today issued a temporary injunction against enforcement of the FATCA data transfer provisions in the newly enacted FATCA implementation law and regulations in a suit brought by Republicans Overseas Israel. An emergency hearing is to be held before September 15, 2016. This is a preliminary but important victory for individual liberty!”
@Watcher
I don’t know about Underground Railroad, but looking at Hodgenlaw PC’s website, he’s definitely found a niche within an expanding market. Call me cynical, but I can’t help but feel his ‘take or leave it’ soft pedal approach to US taxation and expatriation urules is part of his sales pitch. Is there anything in his writings other than an apparent empathy for the difficulties non-resident USP’s face to indicate he actually opposes our continued taxation?
What kind of risk is he taking by encouraging people to be in compliance when they expatriate?
Just a quick question whats the deal with fatca and china, when will the chinese banks actually start reporting americans to the IRS? Is it too late to close your chinese bank account now?