WITNESS SEARCH UPDATE FOR CANADIAN FATCA IGA LAWSUIT:
WE STILL SEEK MORE CANADIAN WITNESSES:
Have you experienced marital stress or breakup, or medical or psychiatric illness because Canada turned you and your family over to a foreign country — or because you were afraid and entered into IRS compliance and suffered harm, or because you are in “hiding” and can’t afford to be IRS compliant or to renounce? Be a witness.
No single witness will be “perfect” from a litigation point of view. We will be seeking more witnesses (almost) right up to the time of submission of court documents. Your specific situation, that we cannot predict, might have unique characteristics that would be helpful in the lawsuit.
If you cannot be a witness, please tell a friend who you think might be interested.
— If you are interested in becoming a witness You will describe your harm in a written affidavit which will be made public and you can contact me at stephen.kish.chair@adcs-adsc.ca See our website at www.adcs-adsc-ca
FOR THOSE CANADIANS WHO ALREADY VOLUNTEERED: Unless you have already been informed by me or by our legal team that you will not be a witness, there is still the possibility — or (for some) likelihood — that you will be asked to be a witness. I’m sorry but I cannot estimate the time it will take for our legal team to get back to you with their decision. This is because they need to “mesh” the characteristics of all of the necessary witnesses and testimonies with the actual detailed submission that contains the entirety of their evidence, which are all still evolving. Please be patient in our getting back to you with a decision. Thank you for your help.
@Whitekat…IF I was a Canadian in Canada, I would personally step up to the plate for part of my own therapy if that makes sense.
I am getting more inclined to be a person who steps up to the plate across the pond.
You need to look at your risk exposure and Bubbles has a point on streamlined…………..
I would stay away from the condors but instead buy back issues of tax software and start doing some returns. Fill them out to the best of YOUR ability and see where you stand.
@Stephen Kish, “Your emotions have now moved from “terror and tears” when you first discovered that Canada — your own country — actually passed a law that would turn you, a Canadian citizen, over to a foreign government, to the fullest appreciation that “I am a Canadian. Period.”
Superb psychological analysis!!!
You have given legs to my thesis “Multi nationality is only a state of mind.”
The germ to this thesis rests with the strong will of plaintiff Ginny. I am convinced in Court she would never admit to being a US Citizen.
What I think is being uncovered now is the death of the dual US National.
Or to phrase it another way, people are walking away from US Citizenship like walking away from a timeshare.
Let me remind people: If you relinquished U.S.A. citizenship by naturalization but were then tricked into obtaining a U.S.A. passport, and you subsequently worked at the polls in Canada on election day, or otherwise held any government employment with any non-U.S.A. government, you then re-relinquished U.S.A. citizenship and are entitled to a back-dated CLN dated on the date of the expatriating act. That is, if you took the government job with the contemporaneous intention of thereby relinquishing U.S.A. citizenship.
Anybody helping people with citizenship issues needs to ask if the client did such a thing.
Another point. Here in New Hampshire, shortly after the terrorist attacks of 11 September 2001, a rule was enacted requiring certain applicants to go to Concord and not to their local DMV for a license or state ID card. In Concord, qualified staff were available to differentiate between persons in the U.S.A. legally and anybody else.
The rule applied to anybody born outside the U.S.A.
The rule was subsequently changed because it illegally discriminated against some U.S.A. citizens, including some born on U.S.A. military bases. Their U.S.A. passport said their place of birth was Subic Air Force Base, Philippines.
ADCS lawyers should look into the arguments made over that case and see if they can borrow anything from it.
@George re: “IF I was a Canadian in Canada, I would personally step up to the plate for part of my own therapy if that makes sense. ”
Sometimes, the ‘therapy’ can make the malady much worse. There’s a fine line, as with all medicines.
@George, in case my comment above was not clear, I was not trying to dissuade people from being a witness, just saying that everyone’s financial situation, familial responsibilities, etc are different. Not everyone can or should be a witness. For example, what if one has an aging parent for whom they have power of attorney over their accounts or with whom they hold joint accounts (my situation actually). In such a case, being a witness sets up one’s parent for potential harm (i.e. by revealing their bank accounts as US reportable). It’s great to ‘step up to the plate as therapy’ as you suggest, but only after one has completed a risk/benefit analysis with regard to one’s own very unique situation, and has determined that one can live with the risks, and has considered all others one might impact.
George re: ” would stay away from the condors but instead buy back issues of tax software and start doing some returns. Fill them out to the best of YOUR ability and see where you stand ”
All I can say is “PFICS”…lots and lots of PFICS and movements between PFICS….nope, have looked into filing as far as I need to to know there is no way I even have the information to do the paperwork never mind the ability. Fuck that. If I file anything, it will involve a lot of zeroes, and doing a ‘Peter’ on the FBARS.
If somebody works at the polls on election day and thereby relinquishes U.S.A. citizenship by virtue of having accepted foreign government employment with the contemporaneous intention of thereby relinquishing…
…and then they wait seven years and seek a CLN
…do they still have to file back tax returns and FBARs?
@Tom Alciere
Excellent example of the exercise of Rights; I repeat your post verbatim below for emphasis,
“Another point. Here in New Hampshire, shortly after the terrorist attacks of 11 September 2001, a rule was enacted requiring certain applicants to go to Concord and not to their local DMV for a license or state ID card. In Concord, qualified staff were available to differentiate between persons in the U.S.A. legally and anybody else.
The rule applied to anybody born outside the U.S.A.
The rule was subsequently changed because it illegally discriminated against some U.S.A. citizens, including some born on U.S.A. military bases. Their U.S.A. passport said their place of birth was Subic Air Force Base, Philippines.
ADCS lawyers should look into the arguments made over that case and see if they can borrow anything from it.”
Tom I assume your question is hypothetical. Not sure if one or two days employment would get you a CLN.
Nobody HAS to file back taxes and FBARs .Your hypothetical person is SUPPOSED to file .
@Whitecat…only you can decide what course is best for you. At the end of the day, you must have peace with your decision. I chose the route of compliance although I may have been granted a CLN with relinquishing. It was very expensive ($15,000.00), but I wanted to exit as quickly as possible for a variety of reasons. #1 waiting for approval of a relinquishment could have taken a year or longer, if not approved I would have been starting over (my husband said get it done and make sure it is done properly this time and I heartily agreed). #2 I was a signing authority on trust accounts that weren’t my own. #3 a financial advisor knew that I was a US citizen. #4 I am the executor of my parents wills which is going to involve reporting to the US (my step -sisters who live in the US and a sibling who lives in Canada has a landed immigrant). And at the end of the day, the firm was recently FATCA’D by the TD. They received the dread letter about the trust account. I was at peace because the we could honestly reply “no” if the question arose about signing authorities.
From the National Post today…
http://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/taxes/relief-may-be-on-the-way-for-people-who-pay-tax-on-both-sides-of-the-border
I don’t want to read Part 5 of Bill C-31 again but if I’m remembering correctly this legislation is basically a set of directives that require Canadian financial institutions to detect (try to, at least) and report the accounts held by US tainted individuals. If an FI doesn’t do as directed then it is breaking Canadian law. What about a US tainted individual though? Is there anything in the bill which requires a US tainted individual to report his/her status to an FI even if he/she was never asked directly to do so by the FI? Would this individual be breaking Canadian law too? When you break a Canadian law there are penalties (fines and/or imprisonment). If such a case ever came into a Canadian court and the US tainted individual was found guilty of not reporting (if such a charge is valid), what penalty would the judge give that person? Potential Canadian law breakers would like to know what might or might not be the penalties they might or might not face in the future.
@John Canuck
Great article from the financial post. Perhaps the submissions made by the CPA,s and AmCham can be used in the Charter Challenge.
@ Marie
Deckard1138’s (aka DZ) comment below the Financial Post article is better than the whimpy, practically fixes nothing, proposals of the CPAs and AmCham. They don’t understand “mismatched” any better than they do “reciprocity”. Besides it is an “unjust tax system” which is the true nail of the matter and Deckard hits it right on the head. The CPAs and AmCham just want to make things a tad easier for the industry they represent and don’t care one iota about the root of the evil which still persists in tormenting innocent individuals caught in the FATCA/FBAR/CBT trap.
@EmBee
U are guilty of what I was doing… over-thinking… Making it more complicated then it should be… u need to step away…. take a walk… have a bite to eat or drink…. clear your head… I had a problem the last couple of weeks… I over-thought the issue… Then I decided… screw it… do the best I can… So go do something u enjoy…. I went shopping with my sibling… we left all the kids to the men… ok we ran out of the house without telling anyone… we burnt rubber leaving…. lol.
@ US_Foreign_Person
I’m just putting on my coat to go for a walk in some very unsettled weather (rain, snow, wind, cloud, sun — bit of everything). It does sound like I overthunk but I’m trying to get a better handle on the risk factor. If it’s less than I’m capable of imagining then that would be a good thing to know.
It seems that the Liberal government still has nothing to say except that they will still consider myself and my wife second class Canadians. It is clearly time to ramp up the “protest” machine. I tend to overthink as well, but, I’m fed up with the liars, especially our own Prime minister. So, it is time to start the legal protests. I paused on the “Charter” toilet paper as I thought that Trudeau meant what he said when he said a “Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian” . What I didn’t realize is that he was not talking to me or my wife. His MP’s throughout this country are playing “stupid” and “pass the buck” regularly to most of you who seek answers. Well, time to put my knowledge and the fact that myself and my wife are Canadian and we were left out, to good use. The Liberal MP’s who sit in their offices and collect huge wages and pensions need to pay attention. It is fully legal to “protest” in Canada as it is one of our fundamental freedoms. The toughest challenge we face is to get the message out as this is a tad complicated. I am working on a solution. The idea is to protest in front of our Liberal MP’s offices. Signs are good, but most people need more. Well, we live in the modern age. Years ago, I worked for Panasonic Canada in Toronto and at the time, video was just beginning to to be used on billboards. I am working on a portable video system that can be pulled on a wagon. This will be a 55″ LED Sony TV with an inverter and 2 large deep cycle batteries. This can be powered for more than 8 hours constantly. This can be fed from a laptop that runs on a 6 hour battery with the display off. The program displayed can be a combination Mr. Trudeau’s claim “Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian” followed by our videos showing the direct opposite during the testimony and the Parliamentary proceedings etc. This can be done and the public can see with their own eyes that the government betrayed Canada. We can also take orders for the new “Charter toilet paper” that will be available. There is no law against video proof at a protest in Canada!
@ NativeCanadian
I think you are on to something there. People would be lured in by the message on the screen. It would be a great way to snag attention and explain what simply cannot be expressed adequately by a sign on a stick. AE911 used a massive video billboard in New York City to get their message out and I think it was quite effective — expensive, of course, but effective. The Occupy Movement projected messages on buildings which was a unique technique (at that time) and also effective. And I like the TP idea too. You aren’t overthinking, you are thinking outside the box which is just the right way to be thinking, I think.
Native and I just talked. We are going to do the first video protest in front of my Liberal MP;s office because she refuses to meet with me.
Does anyone in or near London Ontario want to join us?
We have some planning and some work to do, so I don’t know yet when it will be..
@ Blaze and NativeCanadian
Awesome!
We would like some Witnesses to be persons who want to “renounce” their never wanted “obligations” to the IRS, but cannot afford to do so.
I think it would be very good to get witnesses who can testify as to what the costs of the “renouncing” is–regardless of whether they can “afford” it or not. I’m not sure if people (even judges or politicians) really get what is involved here and it is going to take strong testimony in open court that reflects what people have been posting on here in a more anonymous fashion over the last few years. Even the $2,350 (the basic fee) is outrageous but that seems to be only the tip of the iceberg and the true costs (including all “compliance” costs) are far higher. Testimony to that effect is needed both from people who “can’t afford it” and from people who held their noses and bent over and incurred the costs.
I specifically want the public to se the video of Mr. Ernewin’s comment on Canadian laws “Making space” for the US laws to over-rule our laws. What a nice way he puts it. TREASON!!
@US_Foreign_Person, thanks for the lift, I always enjoy your posts, and laugh/snorted over this latest;
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2016/03/09/canadian-fatca-iga-litigation-update-we-need-more-canadian-witnesses/comment-page-3/#comment-7310264
@Blaze and @NativeCanadian, re ” We are going to do the first video protest in front of my Liberal MP;s office because she refuses to meet with me.” First of a series filmed all over Canada?