WITNESS SEARCH UPDATE FOR CANADIAN FATCA IGA LAWSUIT:
WE STILL SEEK MORE CANADIAN WITNESSES:
Have you experienced marital stress or breakup, or medical or psychiatric illness because Canada turned you and your family over to a foreign country — or because you were afraid and entered into IRS compliance and suffered harm, or because you are in “hiding” and can’t afford to be IRS compliant or to renounce? Be a witness.
No single witness will be “perfect” from a litigation point of view. We will be seeking more witnesses (almost) right up to the time of submission of court documents. Your specific situation, that we cannot predict, might have unique characteristics that would be helpful in the lawsuit.
If you cannot be a witness, please tell a friend who you think might be interested.
— If you are interested in becoming a witness You will describe your harm in a written affidavit which will be made public and you can contact me at stephen.kish.chair@adcs-adsc.ca See our website at www.adcs-adsc-ca
FOR THOSE CANADIANS WHO ALREADY VOLUNTEERED: Unless you have already been informed by me or by our legal team that you will not be a witness, there is still the possibility — or (for some) likelihood — that you will be asked to be a witness. I’m sorry but I cannot estimate the time it will take for our legal team to get back to you with their decision. This is because they need to “mesh” the characteristics of all of the necessary witnesses and testimonies with the actual detailed submission that contains the entirety of their evidence, which are all still evolving. Please be patient in our getting back to you with a decision. Thank you for your help.
@Embee, and @WhiteKat, re “I promise not to peek but it’s always hard for me to curb my curiosity. ”” somehow when I know I shouldn’t it makes me want to more… the lure of the unknown.
But @Stephen, I promise not to look either – crossmyheart…!
Funny idea that the more people look at it the more you pay. Never knew that existed. How does one guard against malicious access by say compliance condors with a grudge, the federal government, etc. ?
Oh no, malicious peeks? I never thought about that.
Badger, please don’t give these bad people any ideas….
I’m sure there are systems in place to guard against malicious clicks. If there weren’t nobody would advertise online for fear their competitors would keep clicking on their ads.
As someone who has previously advertised heavily online, I suggest we stop talking about this topic. The less it’s discussed the better.
As a small business owner I would not have continued advertising if malicious clicks were an issue. On the rare occasions when I did have an unusual amount of clicks I was able to request a report showing me why that was. Usually the company you are advertising with can point you to a news article on the subject that may have caused a higher amount of interest than usual.
@Badger re: “@Embee, and @WhiteKat, re “I promise not to peek but it’s always hard for me to curb my curiosity. ”” somehow when I know I shouldn’t it makes me want to more… the lure of the unknown. ”
The forbidden fruit.
“The forbidden fruit.”
Is that like not being able to keep your hands off your neighbor’s husband or wife? I’m glad I don’t have you guys for neighbors 🙂 Of course I’m kidding…
One of my neighbor’s husband is fat, the other neighbor’s husband is bald. Somehow I manage to keep my hands to myself.
@OMG No, I think you have to both want it and for it not to be allowed before you can refer to it as ‘forbidden fruit.’
I think it’s going to be a challenge getting enough witnesses from a group of people who are doing whatever they can to hide themselves from all of this crap. I imagine, mostly those who have already been exposed to the harm are willing to step forward?
The courts will protect identities in sexual assault cases. so what about in this case? Can we get identity protection from the court? That would go a long way to encourage unexposed people to step forward – but I imagine not, I know all the cards will be stacked against us, that’s how the system seems to be designed.
Until this crap started, I had no idea what it was like to be discriminated against, it’s really an eye opener, I always feel that I have something to hide, that I must lie to protect myself from harm, that I no longer can perform many financial functions independently as most people can, and that almost everyone else around you is uncaring and oblivious to the discrimination and abuse of power that you are suffering from.
If there’s anything positive to say about this crap, is that I now have huge respect and a much greater understanding towards gay rights and other discriminatory causes. It takes real courage to put yourself in the line of fire and stand up to oppression!
Middle,
I recently asked our litigators again whether the names of the witnesses might not be made public. I was told, again, that the court is very unlikely to keep the names out of the public record. This means that witnesses need to assume that their names will be made public..
Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, and the other witness volunteers we already have, are proof that we will in fact find additional witnesses willing to go public. Yes, it does take courage and these are all very special people.
@Middle Finger, “Until this crap started, I had no idea ………………….”
Refreshing to read that others think EXACTLY the same!!!!
Until all this….I did not understand discrimination but I do know.
While I posted this on another IBS page, I’m reposting here to encourage others to add to the paid advertising effort…
I just checked on the “Take Action – Spread the Word on Kijiji, Twitter, Facebook, Etc.” page and found no one has posted there for a few months so I’m posting here that I just put up an ad on my local Kijiji for witnesses (mentioning it here with the hope that maybe others will do so too). Every attempt may help……
As a sample, you can see my ad at http://www.kijiji.ca/v-volunteers/hamilton/us-persons-willing-to-testify-about-fatca-harm/1151794018?src=topAdSearch
The fact that we are having trouble getting witnesses to testify says it all. We are scared to
expose ourselves to the IRS or even our own government who are more than willing to pass
us on to the US State Dept. or the IRS. There are probably thousands of Brockers who read
the posts but are afraid to participate in discussions for fear that the US is trolling this site.
@Peter Julian
Peter, I appreciate you speaking up in Parliament on our behalf. I live in Greater Vancouver and
have written emails to seven hosts on CKNW requesting them to discuss this issue on air. Only one of them have responded but none have discussed FATCA on air. I believe there is a
conspiracy to not discuss this issue. Please try to get this infront of the Canadian public.
It is not about rich Americans hiding money in Canada. This is our sovereignty, privacy laws
and Charter of Rights at risk.
A relative in the US asked her Congressman about my wife’s situation. He says she failed to
inform the State department of her intent to relinquish (in 70’s) so she was still a US Citizen
and subject to taxation by the IRS. Well screw that. Peter please get any Liberal to tell my
wife what she owes the IRS since she has lived in Canada since the age of two.
WAAC –
There are probably thousands of Brockers who read the posts but are afraid to participate in discussions for fear that the US is trolling this site.
Why speculate? Admins could slice and dice you some stats on quantity of recurring IP visits. Just ask.
Oh. You got no useful data? Then you could ask yourself why and get into … further speculation.
Would Canadian renunciants be eligible witnesses? Many will have suffered FATCA harm by (among other things) being forced to pay $2350 to renounce, in order to recover the privacy rights taken away from them by the IGA.
Assume you are a Canadian deemed ‘US person’ who is not compliant with US tax laws because you never had a clue you were a US taxpayer, or because you missed the FBARS, or whatever. In other words, assume you are like most of the rest of the Canadian US persons – non-compliant with regard to some aspect of US tax and reporting laws. Also assume you have no US assets and no US inheritance in your future – also probably like most of the rest of the Canadian US persons.
Furthermore, lets assume that UNlike most of the rest of the Canadian US persons whose net worth will be mostly in real estate and registered bank accounts, you have a FATCA reportable account. Which do you think would ultimately be worse for you personally in this situation? – to lose the Canadian FATCA lGA lawsuit (possibly putting an end to any hope for protection against further, more harmful US demands) OR to volunteer as a witness? Think about that carefully. Because by not choosing the latter, you may be helping to ensure the former.
If you run a newspaper ad it should be in the Toronto Star because they ran a decent article and their readers are more up to speed now than the readers of other newspapers.
I thank today’s innocent retiree for offering to do an affidavit. Unfortunately I’m not innocent. All the emotional harm I’ve experienced would quickly be determined by the federal court to be self-inflicted, so helping with the funding will have to remain my only contribution. Sorry. I realize and appreciate that the plaintiffs and witnesses are contributing something much more important than money — the courage of their convictions.
Here’s just some rambling thoughts I have this early evening. I suppose many of us could think our situations are self-inflicted or imposed. Who should have known that by marrying someone and/or having Canadian born babies we were passing on the US Plague?
Is it self-inflicted that I am not compliant? I can see the argument at least in the last few years since I came to realize it is required according to some US law. But did I have a false expectation that by being a Canadian, I was a full Canadian citizen, or had at least renounced my citizenship when I got around to acquiring my Canadian Citizenship card which I was entitled to from birth anyway?
Should I also carry a pink index card like the Minister does to remind myself that the new government has inherited the previous government’s decision and suddenly reverses itself to say it is now irrevocably bound by that previous decision?
I think not. Nor do I think Gwen and I are at all unusual. We took a step, for ourselves but mainly for everyone we knew would be affected. Personally, the tipping point for me happened to be the exact thing recently discussed, i.e., Calgary’s son’s situation. I realized I wanted to be his voice and representative and much as I wanted to be yours. I hoped if I were in that situation, trying to protect someone who couldn’t be protected from the worst law/agreement ever written, that there would be someone who would do it for me.
That’s all I am, that’s all Gwen is. We are simply those people. But, we cannot do it alone any longer and what is needed are further witnesses to help.
If you think you can also be that person and are still hesitating in the least, please reach out to Stephen or me and we would be happy to talk to you.
Have we really come so far to now be unable to do what we all hoped could be done? If I truly thought that, I doubt I would be able to sleep again. Please, please help. Injustice always needs to be confronted by light. It is the only way to right this. Do not tell me this law suit is over before it begins. I do not want to be that person whois forced to quit something that is so important to so many of us.
There is nothing Gwen and I can do now without further help.
Will you be that help? You can’t be satisfied with the pink index card government answer, can you?
Abusers always blame their victims, that’s a fundamental part of the abuse process. The abusers will always pick on those who are weaker and more vulnerable than themselves, that’s how bullies operate.
I’ve never felt like a criminal, but I certainly do feel like a victim, and I’ve learned from my early years that the worse thing I can do is to take abuse without fighting back as hard as I can, but that was when I had no family of my own to care about. If I was younger and single with only myself in the firing line, I’d swing back as hard as I could, I know it. My best survival strategy for the time being, is to remain hidden, but I know for sure, when push comes to shove, I’ll never ever submit to abuse from a bank or any government, I just won’t do it even if it means losing everything and doing hard time in a prison cell.
There’s no doubt that the main stream media is in collusion with the banks and governments to keep this madness in the dark. They know full well that it’s not something most Canadian’s will be comfortable with. It exposes the “sunny ways” government as nothing more than another hypocrisy, the latest in a long line up of past hypocrisies. They also know full well, that we’re all very vulnerable financially, so they have confidence that not many of us will stand up and expose ourselves to potential ruin.
I bet though, that they never imagined that over $500K would be raised for a constitutional challenge. If everything is kept fair, they know that they’ll lose the case, so they must be doing whatever they can to taint the final judgment before it happens. I don’t know how reliable our courts are, they seem OK when it comes to challenges that do not involve big money (like our “sunny ways” government is), but I for one, don’t have a lot of faith that the court will not cower to big money.
The constitution is a far more subjective document than I’d like to have seen (no doubt intentionally written that way), so I think we all must be prepared for a “Plan B” should the lawsuit and appeal process fails. Capitulation in this matter is simply not an option for most of us, and if we capitulate, the abuse will only get much worse over time, that’s how it works – the vulnerable only become more vulnerable to continuing abuse until they finally reach a breaking point where they have no choice but to fight back.
The one thing I do know, is that initially they’ll try and keep it “reasonable” enough to prevent a mass revolt, but greed knows no bounds, so they’ll continue to take until there’s nothing left to give.
Maybe it’s too early for this, but has anyone thought of what the Plan B is going to be? There will definitely be a Plan B, and if we do not pick one for ourselves, one will be chosen for us by the abusers on their terms.
Your ramblings are right-on, Canadian Ginny. I have always been amazed and a little frightened that part of your being a witness was for the situation of my son and my family — it is for all such families as mine with sons and daughters like my son. I was *lucky enough* to have some retirement savings to dip into to go through what I have and to pay some big fees to professionals to get into compliance (years 2005 – 2012 as it turns out) and try to find a way to *free* my son from his acquired deemed US citizenship and official renunciation in 2012 when the cost was *only* US$450.00 for a CLN and to prove with the final IRS Form 8854 I was far from being a *covered expatriate*. The little bit of voice I have is for other families like mine, many of whom will not have that luxury I had to have enough saved to be able to do what I did — and even at that I am still connected to the US because of my son who cannot renounce. Neither will many of those many other families yet to know how they are affected have the energy required to go through the same sordid process. Self-inflicted? We could not have known what we know now through some kind of osmosis.
Thanks to you and Gwen for standing up for all of us. I hope I can join you, though as a witness to other harms done.
You are a wise one Mr/Ms Middle Finger. I have my individual Plan B but I don’t know what the group Plan B might be. Even mass defiance gets undercut by the charge that since many have complied, therefore, so should everyone … problem solved they would say. Gotta keep hoping for the success of Plan A because a failure by our judicial system would mean grimmer times ahead.
@Embee, Plan B?
I am a Canadian, I am a Canadian is a Canadian.
@EmBee
Perhaps the main gist of the point I wanted to make concerning the need for a “Plan B” at such an early stage, is that as an organized group, we must let the establishment know well in advance of the trial, that should we loose in court, the fight will only have just begun. Loosing will only make us much more angry and much more dedicated with pushing back and refusing to be herded around like cattle. We must let them know they’ll be in a world of hurt should we loose. If we loose, then they will also loose even more so.
I’m already piping mad with anger, but I have some hope that the courts will solve the matter in an acceptable way, however should that fail, then my anger will really turn against them.
Now, we may be angry, but I’ll stress that what we do as a group must always be peaceful, it’ll be far more effective that way, and anything less than that will be used against us. We can make a whole lot of noise, and cause a whole lot of trouble to those who are harming us by exposing their lies and hypocrisy, and we direct our collective anger at them with both active and passive resistance. There are many creative ways to be significant PITA should enough of us work at it as a group.
For starters, if you haven’t already done so, please check out leadnow.ca. They helped defeat an uncaring and seriously dysfunctional government, now they are working very hard to make sure that “sunny ways” fulfills a few key promises that will make a real long lasting difference! They can always use more help, so please sign up and consider participating: http://www.leadnow.ca/
@calgary411
I’ll echo the same thing many have said in response to Dash’s “prodding” (the kindest word I can think of). You obviously have your sons best interests at heart, never change that for anyone, and certainly not because of insanely stupid and harmful “big money” policy. The megalomaniacs who are pulling the strings don’t care about anyone or anything except their own mounds of money, so don’t let them push you into doing more damage to your loved ones than is absolutely necessary. You are a VERY courageous person for taking a stand, and I admire you for it! I agree 100% with your reasoning concerning your son, you are bang on with that.
@ Dash, I really do understand your anger and frustration, but these are real people with their own lives, who have a lot to lose by taking a stand. You have the wrong target in sight, please direct your anger and frustration at the ones who are causing you harm! DO NOT blame the victim, that’s counter-productive and playing right into their hands.