DRAFT 2016 DEMOCRATS ABROAD PLATFORM
Democrats Abroad has released its draft 2016 platform and readers of this new election year manifesto are invited to “JOIN OR LOGIN to leave a comment” until April 27th, by completing an online survey.
As usual, there are plenty of widely divergent, even contradictory, statements and goals contained within the platform’s pages. For example, DA favours
…restoring U.S. citizenship to persons born abroad who lost it by failing to meet residency requirements in a section of the Immigration and Naturalization Act that was repealed in 1978…
while calling for
…an amnesty program for foreign nationals who are citizens of the United States in name only, with no nexus to the United States other than their birth on U.S. soil or birth abroad to a U.S. parent, to allow them to shed their unwanted U.S. citizenship on a no fees, no penalty and no tax filing or reporting basis.
This thread is intended for those who would like to comment on this latest DA dispatch without potentially outing themselves in the process. We would encourage Democrats Abroad to carefully read and consider the thoughts and opinions of our commenters here, as well as those who choose to take the survey and comment on DA’s web site.
@All
My sincere apologies but I have had to re-create this post since it was incorrectly formatted as a WordPress page and was therefore not showing-up correctly in the posts stream. I have manually copy/pasted the comments received so far into this comment. Any further comments should appear normally.
Deckard1138
calgary411
Submitted on 2016/04/24 at 9:56 am
I appreciate your having put up this post that JC requested, Deckard, soliciting comment by April 27th for those here who are still in the US system and can offer comment for this initiative.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/comments-invited-for-draft-2016-democrats-abroad-platform/
George
Submitted on 2016/04/24 at 10:59 am
Overall in the general sense “Issues affecting Americans Abroad” was pretty good and Republicans Overseas should join in to find COMMON GROUND!!!
But a bad area because of taxes is the part on removing the residency requirement to transmit citizenship abroad!!!!
Right now my future grandchildren would NOT be infected but this law change would give them the cancer!!
PLUS what if it was retroactive.
calgary411
Submitted on 2016/04/24 at 11:10 am | In reply to George.
With the consequences of US CBT, there should ever only be a CLAIM or a CHOICE of US citizenship. The height of US exceptionalism and servitude of as many as possible the legislators, Democrat or Republican, cannot see this.
Bubblebustin
Submitted on 2016/04/24 at 11:24 am
@George
DA is calling for transmission of US citizenship to unlimited generations of people who may never step on US soil!
George
Submitted on 2016/04/24 at 11:25 am
@Calgary, reemember Rod Serlings Twilight Zone in black and white on TV?
I have sadly come to the conclusion that we are in fact living in a form of the twilight zone and both our neighbors and homelanders can never understand because what we have all gone through is so utter preposterous.
Plus unlike most of the eight million….you, me and a few other members of this motley crew have swallowed the red pill.
VERY FEW would understand why we would fight automatic US Citizenship to persons born overseas who had parents born overseas who had never lived in the USA!!
George
Submitted on 2016/04/24 at 11:27 am
@Bubbles……again kudos/high five for your continued work!!!!
Yes, it would mean countless generations forward and backwards who are suddenly entrapped.
But in our fight……..this “official” party platform position albeit DA and not DNC, is an excellent teaching moment to MPs and may be useful in the legal process.
Make renouncing easier with no requirement to file last 5 years of taxes and cut the renunciation fee down to $100.
While there has been some talk in the past from DA about shifting to Residence Based Taxation, such talk has been confined to internal pages of their website that may not be navigated to from the homepage. This suggests that they are not really serious about this issue.
If you go to their website and go to Our Party > Our Priorities > Taxation there is only a short amount of text, yet while using such language as: “now burdened with a tax reporting obligation that treats us like suspected tax cheats and money launderers” the remedy suggested is FATCA SCE. Any member of The Democrats may go to the DA page, read that, and say that they are for FATCA SCE and may falsely think that they then will answer the dreams of Americans Abroad ! Example, Clinton. Maybe her staffers went to the webpage and that is what they told Clinton to say.
I see this as an epic fail, as it is a monumental task of the “abroad” and “overseas” wings of the main parties to educate their Homeland counterparts to get them “on board.” Again, it shows DA are not serious, or will they be more serious? Already on Facebook a parallel has been made between Obama’s speech before elected saying of his support for expats, only to find in office that he has done the opposite. So DA, IMO, have a huge credibility gap to close.
The DA platform does not equal DNC platform. The DA platform is irrelevant (especially if hidden from their party). I would want and expect DA to tell us of their Herculean effort to get certain key proposals (such as shift to Residence Based Taxation) onto the main party platform. No less!
I think more emphasis and reasoning should be included on their RBT plank. It should be stated in a way that makes it clear that RBT does not cost the US as collection/compliance costs exceed the revenue from overseas taxpayers plus RBT will encourage more Americans to get the international experience needed to effectively promote US export businesses and services.
A few more ideas:
Exempt assets earned (and taxed) overseas from the 877A exit tax – especially retirement accounts and principal residence. Perhaps require a minimum period of overseas residence to get this exemption (5-10 years).
Regarding foreign retirement accounts – Congress shouldn’t wait until tax treaties are re-negotiated. They can fix the problem for US taxpayers residing abroad by exempting foreign pensions of bona fide foreign residents, and taxing foreign pensions of those who become US residents (either immigrants or returning expats) on withdrawal (perhaps disallowing deductions for contributions while resident in the US).
PFICs – there is absolutely no policy justification for treating standard foreign mutual funds and ETFs as PFICs. The definition of PFIC should EXCLUDE any asset traded on a regular stock exchange (ETFs and REITs) and any mutual/managed fund available to non-qualified (retail) investors. For these funds, any taxable distribution made in the country the fund is incorporated in should be accepted as the appropriate taxable amount by the IRS. Capital gain distributions should be treated as capital gains if separately disclosed. If there’s no disclosure, all dividends should just be treated as ordinary dividends.
Any restoration or granting of citizenship should be OPT IN. Taxation of US citizens born abroad, or those with non-US parents who are born in the US, should start only with the first US passport renewal (or use) after age 18 (or perhaps voting, or any other exercise of the rights of citizenship). If there’s no real connection to the US, then one shouldn’t have to jump through all the tax reporting hoops or formally renounce in order to be left alone. If a child can’t renounce citizenship, the government shouldn’t be able to impose it unilaterally.
@JC – I agree – they have yet to convince me that they are serious about RBT.
Sorry to say this, as I am not usually a cynical person, but I sincerely believe that this offer of commenting on the Democrats Abroad 2016 platform, is an exercise in futility. I have seen the exact same “platforms” from American Citizens Abroad, from Democrats Abroad and from Republican Overseas for more years than I can remember. They all contained many of the same well-known points and the same explanations and not only have none of the more than obvious, necessary and urgent initiatives never happened, things have actually got far far worse, as nearly every expat reader on this blog knows. An exercise like this would only work if we were dealing with an actual true democracy. Sorry, we are not. The hallmark and the bedrock of any democracy is a representative government. We know very well, and Democrats Abroad knows very well, that there are no elected dedicated representatives in Congress, chosen by the American expat community. Other countries do have that for their expats, as not having it is an affront to the very principles of democracy. As an American, born outside of the U.S. who inherited his citizenship through parents, themselves also not born in the U.S. who inherited it from their parents, I have no representation, I have no Senator, no member in Congress, nothing. My attempts to contact a Senator and three Congressmen were met with disinterest and many unanswered letters and emails. Yet I’m expected to file and pay taxes to a country that I never lived in, never used any services in and deny me the right to vote for the very people responsible for drafting and passing the very laws that impact my daily life and the financial wellbeing of my family. Yet, the Americans still believe that they have a democracy! Nowhere in the Democrats Abroad “platform” did I see any proposal for creating representation for the 8 million U.S. citizens who live outside of the United States. Is that democracy? Having lived and grown up outside the U.S. my entire life, I am truly flabbergasted at just how naive and gullible Americans can be. Do they actually believe that this time it will be any different, when they submit their pleas for having a territorial based tax system, like the rest of the entire world, except for Eritrea? The only solution is to renounce, as I am currently in the process of doing, together with four family members and three colleagues that work in the same company in two other countries. When the United States has representative government for ALL its citizens and no longer abuses, extorts and harasses its valuable diaspora, only then will I believe that they understand what a democratic system really is.
Regretfully, I have to agree with Robert. A waste of effort.
Great comment Robert. The first thing that Democrats Abroad should do is live up to their name. I agree completely with Robert, that the current situation proves that there is not a democratic system in the U.S.A. How could a group, Democrats Abroad, who are supposed to represent the interests of their expatriates tolerate and not propose anything to change the fact that U.S. expatriates have no direct representatives accountable to the expatriate electorate, who should be put into office by winning elections for exclusively representing the expatriate community? Democrats Abroad doesn’t even propose anything to get the system to become democratic, so what’s the use in giving them any consideration? I know that my feelings are shared by so very many. We have all wasted too much time falsely believing that our interests are being addressed. I don’t need an organization to look out for me, I simply need a congressman or congresswoman elected by me and accountable to me and my fellow Americans living abroad. I agree, renouncing and getting away from a totally undemocratic country is the only solution. Give me democracy or nothing! Democrats Abroad is a total waste of time!
The wording of the taxation section of this “platform” reads like: “Um, pretty please give us RBT. But but butbutbutbutbut if you don’t wanna, that’s okay that’s okay please don’t spank me, can we please maybe have some of this smaller stuff instead?”
Pretty forceful argument to present to the DNC…not.
Though I’ve participated in every single feedback exercise, poll, and letter-writing campaign on these issues in the past two years (since my OMG moment), I draw the line here. As Robert said, this “consultation” is a waste of calories.
It sounds like not participating in the survey is more a statement against DA than anything else. Is DA relevant to the DNC? I suppose if the DNC ever had the necessity to focus on expat issues, they might find DA to be its best resource of information. It’s for that reason and that reason only that I might participate, even though it’s very unlikely the DNC will ever find the necessity.
Democrats Abroad should start by including in their platform a proposal to remove all congressional and senatorial representation from the States of Oregon and Oklahoma, or from the state of Virginia. Why? If you combine the populations of Oregon and Oklahoma you have approximately 8 million people and the same for Virginia all alone. That is the same number of U.S. citizens living outside of the U.S. The Democrats Abroad platform should then propose, once the mentioned states have lost their representation in Congress and the Senate, that special draconian tax laws be applied to those states, with special reporting demands placed on their banks in order to collect as much tax revenue as possible from these citizens without representation. Let’s see how long that situation would last.
If Democrats Abroad are serious and if they have any sense of justice and respect for democracy, then they would stop proposing lame solutions and half baked platforms to resolving a problem that has at its core a total disrespect of and negation of democracy. We are no longer fooled by this game of smoke and mirrors. Fight for and demand direct representation of the U.S. expat community in the DA 2016 platform and stop proposing lame workaround solutions, i.e. Same Country Exception and all of the other short-term and undemocratic proposals that they come up with in order to avoid confronting the hard truth of dealing with an undemocratic and abusive system. If they value and uphold democracy, then that is where they should begin, by demanding democracy and direct representation for all citizens, irrespective of where they reside. FATCA and all of the other abusive, confiscatory laws where created by the Congress, not by the President. If the expat community can’t vote for representatives fully versed in their specific issues, then don’t waste our time with your “platform”.
They just want to make beleive they are concerned because it’s election time.
In reality, they don’t care because they are not concerned about the FATCA and CBT problem for themselves.
That’s why unless we manage to proove that FATCA and CBT are severely damaging US business abroad, nothing will be done.
You only make the effort to change something when you are concerned about it.
That’s why homelanders don’t care about our expat problems. What are we doing living abroad anyway ? Right ?
They’ll care if FATCA and CBT hurts all businesses in US that export and have subsederies in other countries like John Deere, Brentag, Ford, General motors, Mc Donalds etc…
Might be worth calling those big companies and ask them if FATCA is harming their business abroad and make a report about it. THAT would weigh in for sure.
DA said it best themselves when I attended one of their tax seminars in 2012.
“DA’s main objective is to make sure B.O. gets re-elected.”
@Marie, we were either at the same tax seminar (Toronto), or all the DA seminars read from the same script – as you say; “DA’s main objective is to make sure B.O. gets re-elected.” …… (and I am not and have never been a member so I wouldn’t know but, the one session I attended was more than appalling in terms of the comments and tone of the DA reps hypocritically dismissing and downplaying the damage the Dems had and were causing to ordinary people in Canada and elsewhere) and listening to the DA reps in Toronto excuse the torment of ordinary people the Dems were steadfast and unapologetic about causing via their FBAR/OVDI/FATCA jihad against all things and people outside the US – I couldn’t take the “this is not a good time to push for relief wait for the election to be over” bs. it was however enlightening to see just how many ordinary Canadian citizens and residents other than me hadn’t known before about the scope of the FBAR, the penalties, the cost of compliance, the 3520’s quicksand, our local accounts deemed ‘foreign offshore’ and registered savings deemed by the US to be ‘taxable foreign trusts’, and the whole extent and application of USextraterritorial CBT no matter if one had little or no income, paid higher overall taxes in Canada, etc……
The conduct and tone of the DA made me nauseous and furious.
@Badger
I agree 100%. Canadians at the tax seminar I attended were thrown for a loop. A few even walked out. The seminar was better suited to US persons temporarily in Canada, not Canadians with a US birthplace. I had just learned about Fatca the month before so I was just looking for more info. DA attitude seemed to be “Oh well, what can you do? Gotta fill out these darned forms.” Looking back on that meeting now, it really pisses me off.
@Marie, it was only because of IBS that I went to that seminar knowing enough about it to appreciate just how much was at stake for those trying to decide what to do – even if they decided to attempt to become ‘compliant’. And this was well before Streamlined even existed, and the US had been trying to urge/scare all those who weren’t to enter the OVDI inquisition and confiscation factory – even minnows.
I note that the DA did not even mention the Taxpayer Advocate as a potential source of help. And several people in the audience were in despair contemplating the FBAR and other ‘information return’ penalty quicksands and the cost of compliance – quite apart from any actual US tax assessed.
I still wonder what happened to some of the people around me that I spoke with at that session. I hope that they somehow found their way to IBS. I did tell those I spoke to about it.
@Marie
I wasn’t even there and it pisses me off.
I suspect the majority of these folks with DA were aware of their US tax-filing obligations when they departed from the US. They never experienced their horrific “gotcha” moment years later, and the realization that life as they knew it was over. I could never understand the “oh well, that’s just the way it is” attitude some people have. Maybe I’m completely delusional to harbour some kind of faith that the US could go to RBT, but unlike DA it’s a pretty black and white situation for me. First of all, DA’s ‘compromises’ to RBT can only occur if the US government realizes there’s a problem with their tax system as it applies to its non-resident citizens. Once it’s had this revelation, would the best solution really be to maintain some watered-down version of it? To me, DA is just trying to play to both camps, satisfying neither.
@Bubblebustin
I think DA seems to best represent citizens temporarily living abroad. US persons who are “casual Canadians” want to comply with the law because they have every intention of returning “home”. They’re probably not citizens of their country of residence, no registered accounts in Canada, etc. They don’t like it, but they’re willing to comply. They don’t represent me, and I don’t think they represent most of the people commenting on IBS.
@Steven, re the DA pretense at consultation;
“They just want to make beleive they are concerned because it’s election time…….”
Apparently, it is ALWAYS election time and always will be election time – and will NEVER be the right time for the 6-8 million people the US claims it owns as taxable-citizen serfs living outside the US. Judging by the history of US extraterritorial CBT, and the events since the IRS was given the FBAR to administer and the 2003/04 new NON-willful penalty was created, along with the OVDI/P and FBAR jihads and then FATCA, and the exponentially confiscatory and unconstitutional increase in the fee to renounce plus the NEW equivalent fee to relinquish (an act which we’ve carried out and are merely notifying them has ALREADY taken place in order to get our self emancipation documented with a CLN). And then there are the ratcheting up attempts to take away US passports from citizens, and other punitive measures.
Even the diehards are going to find it ever harder to rationalize all this to themselves. Hope the DA member Stepford Wives rationalizing this to 6-8 million US citizens ‘abroad’ find themselves in some of this FATCA/FBAR/”information return”/passport hell. What is sauce for the goose…..
I apologize, I may be naive, but doesn’t DA mean Dumb Ass…..? so what’s the big fuss about?
@Marie, “I think DA seems to best represent citizens temporarily living abroad. US persons who are “casual Canadians” want to comply with the law because they have every intention of returning “home”. They’re probably not citizens of their country of residence, no registered accounts in Canada, etc.”
I know people like that in the EU.
They have a residency permit in their blue US Passport. They do ALL their banking with a US bank in the US often utilizing the address of a relative of a friend. They use their USA credit cards and get cash from their USA atm cards.
They maintain an ILLEGAL US Drivers License because they do not want to get a local license being afraid to take the test if needed.
They celebrate ALL American holidays.
They bitch and moan about how they wish they could get this or that over here…….
When they visit the homeland they bring back bags of crap as if you can not buy food or clothing in the EU!
They love watching USA television on their satellite systems and love to follow the USA election and sports.
But some of them do not file USA taxes which I think in the above circumstances being an “American Abroad” they should!!
@Badger, “and the exponentially confiscatory and unconstitutional increase in the fee to renounce plus the NEW equivalent fee to relinquish (an act which we’ve carried out and are merely notifying them has ALREADY taken place in order to get our self emancipation documented with a CLN).”
Under US Law (8 US Code) a CLN is NOT required to lose citizenship, hence the reason they can charge a fee for this courtesy copy!!!
I believe the IGA was written to include the “reasonable explanation” was because requiring a CLN that must be paid for would have brought the house of cards tumbling down.
There was a comment above about Representation for US persons overseas. I am concerned that the main parties may try to hijack that Representation for their Homeland aims. We see how Democrats “Abroad” tend to be about Homeland issues. However, this is how it might work: Lets say there is some period of residency after which CBT does not apply – how about 3 years away. Then the overseas Representation may work along similar lines – can only vote if 3 or more years not resident in US, otherwise may vote in US. Very long shot.
I am thinking that if certain things are asked (list from DA – they did not do well with FATCA SCE which did not go anywhere), that the Congressional response tends to be along the lines of ok, you are asking for this, what will you give in return, or how will you make up the revenue shortfall? I am thinking that if somehow it is done a different way – maybe ask/demand an apology for injustices as well, that this would then imply a wrong that should be righted and may side step the usual quid pro quo. Good luck with that, yet that is what I will ask DA to do.
Along the lines of the above, an apology from Obama, for the harm and injustices, increased by his administration, against overseas US persons. Good luck with that. He should use his Lame Duck Presidential Pardon powers to pardon all US persons overseas wrongly and in a blanket fashion treated as US resident tax cheats. Good luck with that – only if they thought the next election counted on it, perhaps. Yet it would imply administration wrong doing.
I saw this opportunity to input into the DA Platform (they did not trumpet it on Twitter or on their webpage – I think only on Facebook where Keith Redmond dug it out). I figure I submitted to Senate Finance, and House Ways and Means (where are those postings on the web?), now something to DA. I figure I prefer to have Brockers well represented in the submissions than not represented. Then we will see what they do with the submissions, and be prepared to barbecue them and add it to a list of injustices if that is the way it goes.
@Badger
When I received my FATCA letter from my bank in october 2014 I contacted ACA in Paris.
I told them I’d left the states at 7 years old and had never went back. I don’t even have an SSN number and don’t want one.
They advized me to ask for french ctizenship, not renew my US passport and never go back.
Done.
I still had an appointment with my bank last week because they absolutely want me to fill out a W9 form.
I refused arguing that all this is illegal wich they recongnized as true and that there is no OMB number on the W9 form so it is not a valid form.
When you know 16th amendment was never properly ratified AND that it only stipulates “the several states” you quickly undersatnd that the private IRS agency working for the private corporate federal reserve is a fraud.
Fuck off USA is all I have to say…
One might “sign in” to the DA page all they want with Twitter and Facebook, yet no area to contribute? On Facebook Keith Redmond says that you have to be a member of DA to add comments.