From today’s ipolitics.ca article Lynne Swanson is also quoted. Here is part of the article:
“…Members of the Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics Committee voted unanimously Tuesday to invite Lebouthillier to appear along with Privacy Commissioner Daniel Therrien and Marie-Claude Juneau, privacy coordinator for the CRA…
While prominent Liberals, including Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, criticized the information sharing deal before the election, Lebouthillier has defended it. “Minister Lebouthillier wants to reassure Canadians that all exchanges of information are subject to strict confidentiality rules,” reads the e-mail sent by Lebouthillier’s office…
Lebouthillier’s position has angered groups that have been fighting the deal such as the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty, which is asking the courts to declare it unconstitutional.
Meanwhile, two Liberal cabinet ministers who had criticized the deal to transfer banking records in the past are no longer calling for it to be scrapped or changed.
Speaking on the way into a cabinet meeting Tuesday, Treasury Board President Scott Brison and Transport Minister Marc Garneau rallied behind the position adopted last week by Lebouthillier.
Brison, who sharply criticized the deal and tried to have it amended when he was Liberal finance critic, said the Liberal government has to work with the agreement negotiated by former Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s Conservatives.
“The previous government negotiated with the Americans on this and we have certainly inherited the situation we have,” Brison told iPolitics. “At the time, the previous government could have negotiated more effectively. The question is where are we now and it is a difficult one to deal with retroactively.”
In 2014, Garneau accused the IRS of trying to get the Canada Revenue Agency to “do its dirty work” through the deal – a deal he now supports. “I take the position that our government is taking now and has been expressed by the minister of revenue,” he said Tuesday…”
elizabeththompson@ipolitics.ca
@LM says
If your MP or their assistant try to blame FATCA on the Coservatives or that their hands are
tied because it is a ‘foreign government’. Remind the MP that they are now the government
of Canada and have an obligation to protect their Citizens. They have already reversed or
amended other Conservative actions.
@ We are all Canucks – thanks for you comments. May I suggest, as it is now 1 month and you/your wife has heard nothing, that you send a (relatively respectful) reminder email to your MP, mentioning your meeting (and a bit about what was discussed).
@ Stephen – thanks for these ideas – – they have been added to my prep notes and set of handouts. These “notes” are now running into a number of pages; I will have to pare down and prioritize (focusing on the most important) over the weekend….
@ LM
My good wishes are following you to your MP appointment. I get by (barely) with the written word but I’m absolutely hopeless with face to face conversations. (Diminishing hearing doesn’t help.) I met with the assistant of our former Con MP in 2012 and even though she was really kind and receptive (not so her boss, judging from his e-mail responses) I was nervous before and during and trembling with relief after. So, all this to say, I empathize with you and want you to know your effort is appreciated. It’s important to get to newbie Lib MPs before they get sucked too deep into the system of sticking to the party line.
@LM
Don’t let them talk over top of you or distract from what you want to discuss. Intimidated? Remind yourself who it is they work for.
@LM. Chantal Petitclerc is an outstanding wheelchair Paralypian. I don’t know her personally but I have heard excellent things about her.
I worked on a couple of projects over 30 years ago when she worked for Ontario Public Service Employees Union (OPSEU) and. I was just beginning my Human Resources path. I found her to be an effective listener and we worked well together to creatively problem solve even though she was a union rep and I was on the management side in an Ontario college.
She left OPSEU when she was elected as an NDP MP in 1990. She was a member of the Bob Rae Cabinet. She was reelected in 1995 but the NDP had third party status then. She ran for leadership of the Ontario NDP but was defeated by Howard Hampton which I always thought was a huge mistake by the NDP.
Frances Lankin was recruited by United Way of Toronto to be their Executive Director. She was there for several years. I have been told she did an outstanding job there.
After she left United Way she co- chaired a Commission to review Ontario social services. They undertook a massive review and consultation process. They made numerous strong recommendations. Most of the recommendations were ignored by the government.
I think both Chantal Petitclerc and Frances Lankin are women of integrity. But I don’t think they (or any other Senators) will have much influence.
I don’t know a lot about the other new Senators, but I like what I have read about them. None of them are directly connected with either the Liberal or Conservative parties, which makes these appointments a refreshing break from the long-standing practice of patronage appointments, so I commend Trudeau for that as well as for deciding that the previous Liberal Senators would no longer be Liberals, thus giving them the ability to be more independent. I think, however, that many of them still consider themselves to be Liberals.
I don’t know how much it matters because the Senate has so little credibility and no one listens to them.
@EmBee – Thanks for your encouraging words. I, too, have hearing deficits but I think I had these verbal-conversation difficulties even well before. Also, I too expect to be nervous but having notes in hand (and some things to physically hand the MP) will hopefully help. My MP is a female. I got a good sense of her during the local 2-hour pre-election debate; I anticipate her being kind but also tending towards practical and organized. With this in mind, she MAY turn out to be a good advocate. I can post something after this apointment to, hopefully, give others encouragement to do the same. If only we knew someone in Pierre-Luc Dusseault’s riding of Sherbrooke or Diane Lebouthillier’s in Gaspésie — Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine…….
@LM If only we knew someone in Justin Trudeau’s riding. Or Scott Brison. Or Emmanuel Dubourg. Or Marc Garneau. Or…
Not that I think it would make a difference. They all have their marching orders. The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the reason Dubourg is not Revenue Minister is because of his strong opposition to FATCA, including the very strong article he wrote in the National Post.
I also thought Brison had a good shot at being Finance Minister and Garneau had a good shot at Foreign Affairs because that is the role each of them had as critics. Who knows, maybe that is why Brison went to Treasury and Garneau to Transportation. JT probably did not want the Ministers of those three portfolios to have spoken out against FATCA in the past.
@ LM
Your earlier e-mails will already have been helpful and so will the printed material you’ll be giving her. It will go well. (BTW … my bad memory … my meet-up was in 2013.)
@ Blaze – Our 40+ year old daughter lives in Scott Brison’s riding and I met him briefly once at a local vegetarian restaurant. I wrote him (using that”in”) just after the election but never got a response. Our daughter (born here of 2 USP), decided to go through the 2011 version of the Amnesty opportunity and was the first in our family to renounce in 2012. She has 2 young children and had been off and on work for a while so didn’t have much difficult with the filing but she did appreciate the then-Ambassador who announced that any Canadian who didn’t owe any taxes to the US, and was filing all Cdn taxes, would not be required to pay any penalty. Anyway, that was 5 years ago and she is back being busy at work and 2 growing kids (and a dog and cat and a husband who travels a lot for work); while I think she is sympathetic to the cause, she is not very politically oriented and has no time to get involved. I may, however, ask her if she knows any “US Persons” there who might be willing to come forward…..
Murray Sinclair is a very interesting fellow. I never knew anything of him until I just happened to have the TV on when the report on the Truth & Reconciliation came out. He is a no-nonsense kind of guy, very intelligent, very intent and seems like someone of great integrity. He also was the first Aboriginal judge appointed in Manitoba.
http://www.trc.ca/websites/trcinstitution/index.php?p=5
Frances Lankin was an MPP in Bob Rae’s government. I don’t remember much about her other than at one point she was Minister of Health.
Francis Lankin was also Chair of Management Board of Cabinet.
I remember when she introduced benefits for same sex partners of provincial civil servants. It seems so simple today but in 1991 (or around then), it was radical and hugely controversial. But she did not back down.
Francis Lankin was also a Minister of Economic and Trade. I had left that Ministry several years before she became Minister. I think she was the first female Minister in what then was an old boys bastion. I always wondered how she as a former unionist was received in a very cinservative (both small c and capital C) organization where almost all employees had strong business backgrounds. However, I knew she would hold her own.
She began her working life as a jail guard. Francis was the first (or one of the first) female guards at the very rough male Don Jail.
So she’s tough. But she has a way of reaching out to people and solving problems. She was probably the key to getting the union to accept Bob Rae’s very unpopular social contract requiring public servants to take time off without pay to address financial difficulties in the 1990s.
I actually loved my Rae Days. Even though they were unpopular and a nightmare to administer, most civil servants eventually accepted them as necessary cutbacks with some benefits. I always thought it was a creative, simple solution to a complicated problem. A lot of credit for that is because of Lankin.
I think Francus and most of the other new Senators were great choices. But I don’t think they will make one bit of difference to us or to FATCA. Were any of them born in U.S,?
I’m sure Francis Lankin would not remember me after more than three decades. But she might. One of the projects we worked on together was developing a college policy on sexual harassment–the first in the college system and one of the first anywhere.
LM,
I’m glad you put your request for suggestions into a comment where you have gotten especially good input. Two I think most fruitful and legitimate — Stephen’s advice…
and keeping in mind bubblebustin’s…
Best of luck — you’re going to do fine.
Thanks, Calgary. And I might add – if you have to, remind HER of who it is SHE works for!
If you need the names of examples of Canadian politicians who were or would have been deemed UStaxableCanadians, here are a few Liberals and Cons to use as examples;
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/10/12/canadian-politicians-born-in-us_n_1961175.html
http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/ParlInfo/Files/Parliamentarian.aspx?Item=9b8d1709-1a8c-4c95-b3d9-bdb027c13a7b&Language=E&Section=ALL
I found that you can search the Parliament of Canada site using the terms place of birth united states, but then have to sift through and look for those still sitting and still alive;
http://www.parl.gc.ca/Search/Results.aspx?Language=E&search_term=place%20of%20birth%20united%20states
I didn’t know this existed:
http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/ParlInfo/compilations/Parliament/BornOutsideCanada.aspx?Menu=HOC-Bio&Country=aa323487-7fe8-4d78-9f44-7f451aef5d79&Show=MP&Current=False
Members of the House of Commons Born Outside Canada
Search Criteria
Parliamentary Function:
Current Parliamentarians Only
Country:
Sorry, have to amend what I posted. That search can show you MPs who were born in the US, but since UStaxablepersons also include those who are dual by naturalization or by parentage (depending on various factors), or by never formally surrendered greencard status, it does not identify all who the US might define as a UStaxableCanadian. When I limit by ‘currently sitting’ there appear to be only 2 who show up with a US birthplace who are active MPs. And they may or may not have lost their US status via relinquishment or renunciation.
You can do the same for the Senate:
http://www.lop.parl.gc.ca/parlinfo/Compilations/Parliament/BornOutsideCanada.aspx?Country=aa323487-7fe8-4d78-9f44-7f451aef5d79&Show=Senators&Current=False
But I note that on closer examination, the webpage for Parliament says;
” Updated on: 2013.11.25
Revised on: 2013.11.26
and for the Senate;
“Updated on: 2012.01.06
Revised on: 2012.01.09”
So the biographical list of those born outside Canada is not up to date.
@ Badger – there are 38 current MPs who were born outside Canada; 28 are in the Liberals! Me thinks they should be contacted and asked how they would feel if their country of origin started to demand tax filing and payments AND the Canadian government agreed to locate all the citizens of that country living here and sending the full range of private information that has been demanded in FATCA????? Maybe they could talk to white-bread Prince Justin about this?
@ Badger – RE Senators born outside Canada.
If you click on Current Parliamentarians Only, you get a list of 9 all of whom are now in the Senate.
Perhaps they, too, should receive a letter asking “What if your country of birth started asking for taxes and Canada agreed to hunt you down and send a whole bunch of private information about you…..” Might that not raise a few eyebrows?
@LM, the date on the webpage was 2012 for the Senate page and 2013 for the Members page, so would need doublechecking to see if all were still sitting, and include any new ones. Looks as if they chose not to update that part of the website. But I agree, it is an interesting tactic even if we can’t ascertain a birthplace for all of the current ones. I was particularly thinking of finding the Liberals to name.
@All
Here is a list of all members of the current Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics Committee. While not my local riding MP, I intend to contact Bob Bratina whose riding is right next to mine and is a newbie MP who almost certainly needs education!!!
Maybe some other Brockers would consider contacting some of the other members here educate them about the FATCA/IGA issues prior to the meeting with the Minister and Privacy Commissioner?
Liberal Members
• Bob Bratina
• Nathaniel Erskine-Smith
• Joel Lighthouse (Vice-Chair) (NOTE: this listing on the parliament site is wrong, it is Joel Lightbound)
• Wayne Long
• Rémi Massé
• Raj Saini
Conservative Members
• Blaine Calkins (Chair)
• Matt Jeneroux
• Pat Kelly
NDP Members
• Daniel Blaikie (Vice Chair)
(NOTE: Mr. Dusseault has served as an alternate member acting for Mr. Blaikie at one recent meeting)
LM has put together a terrific set of annotated talking points for her meeting with her Member of Parliament, a combination of her ideas and the suggestions several people posted for it. She’s also created a list of useful source links, also at the above link.
You can access it on the new Meet with your MP – Talking Points & Reports page, which is also accessible under Take Action! in the Sidebar.
You can use these points to prepare for meetings you have. If you adapt this list (or create a different one), I hope you’ll share yours on the MP – Talking Points & Reports page too.
I see that current Finance Minister Bill Morneau was at some point;
“…… the former chair of the C. D. Howe Institute.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Morneau
I remember we tried (to no avail to find any commentary on FATCA from the CDHowe Institute, and the Fraser Institute;
http://maplesandbox.ca/2014/fraser-institute-report-no-mention-of-fatca/ . They apparently found FATCA forced on Canada by a foreign government to be unworthy of study or mention – as far as I can see. Which strikes me as very odd since the CD Howe Institute is a “a Canadian economic policy think tank ” and, “….n 1989, highly respected investment banker Thomas E. Kierans became president of the Institute, a position he held for the next 10 years. Under Kieran’s leadership, the Institute became the acknowledged leader among Canadian think tanks. It continued to expand its areas of analysis, particularly in the fields of social policy and constitutional issues…..”. https://www.cdhowe.org/history
And BTW, CD Howe himself was born a US citizen – in Mass. USA, and later moved to Nova Scotia. “Clarence Decatur “C. D.” Howe, PC (15 January 1886 – 31 December 1960) was a powerful Canadian Cabinet minister, representing the Liberal Party.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._D._Howe
Ironic that he was a UStaxableperson, but the Institute has nothing that I can find re FATCA.
I think this is Finance Minister Morneau’s father (William Francis “Frank” Morneau, Sr.);
Morneau Shepell
About Us:
‘W.F. Morneau, Sr.’
“Mr. W.F. Morneau Sr. is the Honorary Chair and founder of Morneau Shepell. ……..”
http://www.morneaushepell.com/ca-en/board-directors
and,
Morneau Senior’s company certainly knows about FATCA from 2014 onwards;
http://www.morneaushepell.com/ca-en/insights/canada-and-us-agreement-foreign-account-tax-compliance-act-fatca
http://www.morneaushepell.com/ca-en/insights/foreign-account-tax-compliance-act-fatca-update
Courtesy of the post by @Duke of Devon, this is currently the advice that Minister Lebouthillier would give Canadian grandmas and all other CANADIANS affected; “…..“……I understand (our) policy can create a compliance burden….. For U.S. tax obligations these individuals can contact the IRS or consult with a tax professional qualified in U.S. tax matters….. I trust the information I have provided is useful.” Signed Hon. D. Lebouthillier.” http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/fatca/comment-page-136/#comment-7612681
As an agent of a foreign government, former US Ambassador Jacobson was at the very least naive, and at worst, exceedingly disingenuous in his assurances re the intent and actions of the US Treasury and the IRS towards Canadian Grandmas; “…We are not unreasonable. We are not unsympathetic. We are not irresponsible….”…
https://web.archive.org/web/20111023200917/http://canada.usembassy.gov/ambassador/news-and-speeches/18-october-2011-ambassador-jacobsons-remarks-to-the-canadian-club.html
despite ample evidence to the contrary;
http://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/u-s-campaign-to-catch-tax-cheats-snaring-canadians
http://globalnews.ca/video/1549430/canadians-paying-additional-taxes-after-gov-shares-tax-info-with-u-s/
Jacobson was speaking and acting on behalf of a foreign nation.
But, what is Minister Lebouthillier’s excuse for being unreasonable, unsympathetic and irresponsible as she speaks and acts as a sworn Canadian minister and elected representative of CANADIANS in CANADA when she elects to refrain from acknowledging us as Canadian citizens and legal residents in her correspondence with constituents and taxpayers, and advises CANADIAN CITIZENS AND RESIDENTS to; “contact the IRS or consult with a tax professional qualified in U.S. tax matters…” and considers that responsible and sufficient advice from a CANADIAN to a CANADIAN asking her for assistance in her role as a CANADIAN parliamentarian and OUR Minister of CANADIAN Revenue?
In what kind of government do we get the CANADIAN Minister of Revenue assisting in shepherding CANADIAN taxpayers and assisting to divert their Canadian personal and financial data, as well as their Canadian made, sited and held assets to the tender extraterritorial ministrations of a foreign Revenue agency, and foreign tax advisors?
Lebouthillier deserves a place of honour high up on the IBS Wall of Shame.
I agree, Badger. The RM’s behaviour is shameful. Some social worker – sending you into the arms of the abuser.
Just today I wrote to her (again) asking her why I haven’t heard from her after she received the CRA’s letter in response to her query as to whether my banking info has been sent to the IRS via the CRA.
Fodder for the ADCS lawsuit, I hope.