March 8, 2016 UPDATE: Legal fees paid — on to Federal Court for Charter trial contesting Canadian FATCA IGA legislation.
Canadians and International Supporters:
You came through once again: $594,970 for legal costs have now been donated and our outstanding legal bill is finally paid off.
Thanks especially to those who donated even though they never had any “spare” money to give, and despite this gave over and over and over again.
This last round of fundraising also shows that our Canadian lawsuit remains dependent on the kindness of our International Friends: There would be no lawsuit without their financial help.
Know that a very generous donation (today) from a supporter in the United States made it possible to pay off the remaining legal debt. Also please appreciate that there would be no lawsuit without the help of the Isaac Brock Society which has kindly let us use its website to solicit funds.
Our next step is the Constitutional-Charter trial in Federal Court.
For this we need more Canadian Witnesses, and my next post will be devoted only to a request for Witnesses willing to go public, like our Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen.
For the future: I want a win in Federal Court — and I want the new Liberal Government not to appeal that win.
Thank you all for your support,
Stephen Kish,
for the Directors,
Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty
“In August, 2008, I received the following notice from the IRS: FINAL NOTICE and NOTICE OF INTENT TO LEVY and NOTICE OF YOUR RIGHT TO A HEARING PLEASE RESPOND IMMEDIATELY. Amount you owe: $140,296 US. (taxes and penalties). This notice was the FIRST notice that I received from the IRS. […] It turned out I owed the IRS $00 and the IRS confirmed that zero balances were owed.”
Had you been filing US returns during that time? If not, it is possible that an identity thief was filing returns using your name and SSN. If yes, it’s still possible, if the identity thief was an IRS employee like Monica Hernandez.
Although that notice was the first one that you received from the IRS, we don’t know if they mailed others, and we don’t know what address they might have mailed other notices to.
The IRS ordinarily purges files after 10 years. They purged my file early, while it’s in litigation, and I think it’s because they have something to hide. I have a feeling that for a $5,000 fee your lawyer probably didn’t pursue questions of further wrongdoing by IRS employees, but you can try yourself.
“As we have seen, this is a breeding ground for depression, suicide, addiction and all manner of emotional distress. It’s a shame no one in the US government or IRS has noticed this.”
They’ve noticed. They just don’t give a shit … except that when they profit from abusing us, then they do give a shit.
Speak of the devil (in case it wasn’t enough that that’s the entire purpose of this site)…
“An IRS employee who worked with identity theft victims on correcting their tax information pled guilty this week to stealing taxpayers’ identities herself in order to collect up to $1.5 million in fraudulent tax refunds.”
http://fortune.com/2016/02/12/irs-identity-theft/?xid=yahoo_fortune
One more down, thousands more to go.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY GINNY
I hope enough donations come in this week to make you smile. It would be nice if another witness name could be added to the list too.
@Norman Diamond – With regard of the theft of IRS data, according to Jim Jatras, IRS data is offered at least some level of data protection legally, however, for FATCA data it is ‘reclassified’ as data not afforeded data protection.
The IRS could print all the names and addresses on the front page of the New York Times without fear of recourse in any shape or form.
The IRS can make this data public domain to anyone on the planet if it so wishes.
This is what I would like to know about the 155,000 accounts that the CRA turned over to the IRS:
1. How many account holders (actual persons) are involved? (we know that it is < 155,000 with some people having multiple, including corporate, accounts).
2. How many are residents of Canada (indicium is US place of birth) and how many are Canadians living in the US who unwittingly kept bank/financial accounts in Canada (indicium is US address, phone number etc.)?
3. What is the IRS going to do with the account data? Is the IRS going to go after Canadian citizens resident in Canada in the pursuit of FBAR penalties? What will be the judgment of the decision makers in the IRS regarding this? Decline to pursue this course of action because it is morally wrong or simply because it is too costly and difficult legally given their resources? Or aggressively pursue a few selected targets to generate fear in everyone else?
Canadians living in the US are of course in a completely different situation, being truly at the mercy of the IRS. Could some of them be put through the same kind of hell that Neill from the UK went through?
Mr. A,
I suspect that we will not receive any further information from the Government of Canada on the actual number (<155,000) or characteristics of Canadians turned over to IRS last September.
All speculation, but it has been suggested to me that the IRS computer will only go after those turned over who are IRS non-compliant, have some contact information available, and who have "large" accounts — and will send these persons a pay up your FBAR penalty now letter. No need for IRS to know at the early stage the income of these persons. Failure to file income penalties would be "negotiated" later. What will be the response of Canadians who receive these letters?
— Hoping that some will help me find a Canadian who has been turned over, and other potential Witnesses, and not give up on the difficult quest.
@Norman Diamond
No, I hadn’t filed any US returns since coming to Canada. After meeting other Canadians who came from the US years ago, I was told they never filed any US returns and never heard from the IRS. My attorney told me later that the IRS will file for you if there is any kind of paper trail, When the IRS files for an individual, it is done in the most profitable way for the IRS.
I’m done with the US and the IRS. Glad to have survived the ordeal and owe them zero.
Best wishes with your IRS struggles.
Maybe ADCS or Brock could apply to amacfoundation.com
AMAC is just like AARP only different. AMAC is conservatives and AARP is liberals.
Does anything come to mind when you take a look at the image on their website,
http://www.amacfoundation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/slide_3a_1-1046×682.jpg
Re harm suffered by the “….. (<155,000) …. Canadians turned over to IRS last September."
Their information is now in possession of the IRS, and within the US – and so subject to the US Patriot Act and Homeland Security laws, as MP Rankin notes in this exchange, which is not refuted by Brian Ernewein, General Director, Tax Policy Branch, Department of Finance:
http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=6562065&Language=E&Mode=1#Int-8334532
Wouldn't that constitute 'harm'? They lost their privacy and control over their personal and financial information, with no notification and no recourse. They may not even actually be USPs, but solely Canadian taxpayers. Ernewein admits that once the US has the data, there is no Canadian control. And as for any breach of the use of the data for non-tax purposes – he admits that there is nothing that binds the US to tell Canada if/when that happens, or to make any amends if it does. In fact, I would think that the CRA would be like the Western version of the 3 monkeys that see and hear and speak no evil; willfully holding its hands over its eyes and ears re the FATCA IGA and the US Patriot and Homeland Security laws, and in this lawsuit, determined not to speak any evil (or truth) regarding how the turning over of Canadian owned data colludes to subject Canadian taxpayers to harm at the hands of a foreign government, via US FATCA, Patriot Act and Homeland Security. In light of what Ernewein says, the CRA would not want to hear about or admit to US data breaches or misuse, even IF the US notified them.
La, la, la, la, sings Brian Ernewein of Finance, and the defendants named from the CRA, with their hands over their eyes and ears …… singing a song of betrayal of the fiduciary and legal trust they owe first and foremost to Canadian taxpayers – a song sung loudly in order to drown out the voices of Canadian citizens and all other legal Canadian resident taxpayers subjected to US extraterritorial FATCA, as the federal government willfully colludes with a foreign government – and abuses Canadian taxpayer trust and revenues to fund the imposition of FATCA on Canadians in order to fund the domestic debt of a foreign country – the US.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/08/27/99929-needed-in-94-more-days-to-make-the-100000-august-4-2015-payment-for-canadian-fatca-iga-lawsuit-il-nous-reste-99929-a-ramasser-pour-notre-poursuite-judiciaire/comment-page-58/#comment-6367015
The willfully blind and loudly singing monkeys at Finance and the CRA didn't even try to avail themselves of a potential delay in turning over the information;
https://adcsovereignty.wordpress.com/2015/09/21/letter-to-minister-of-revenue-regarding-irs-delay-in-account-reporting/
More on the intersection of the Patriot Act and FATCA/CBT/FBAR and privacy rights:
Cockfield, Arthur J., FATCA and the Erosion of Canadian Taxpayer Privacy (April 1, 2014). Report to the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, April 2014. http://ssrn.com/abstract=2433198
Christians, Allison and Cockfield, Arthur J., Submission to Finance Department on Implementation of FATCA in Canada (March 10, 2014). Available at SSRN: http://ssrn.com/abstract=2407264 or http://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.2407264
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/08/22/privacy-commissioners-information-office-says-dont-bug-us-in-disappointing-response-to-questions-about-canadian-privacy-rights/
Badger,
What you say above is why we all need to find for our litigation a Canadian actually turned over to CRA/IRS last September who is now subject to those and other risks.
Does anyone work in IT in the government or banks who could find a list of names? Kidding….sort of…..how else can we find such people?
As always — you’re SPOT ON, badger!!!
@Stephen;
If the CRA hasn’t notified them, the Banksters haven’t, and the IRS hasn’t generated letters yet, how would affected taxpayers know that they’re part of the group of names that were turned over? Maybe I’m missing something that has been discussed, but am I right that neither the CRA nor the Banksters are compelled to notify those affected? So the only way they’d know is that the bank would have demanded a statement that they were NOT a USP – and if they didn’t provide one, they’d know they were to be reported?
First, I believe that CRA will never advise a Canadian whether it turned over bank account info to IRS per FATCA.
Badger, there are two answers:
The banks/investment account person have to provide information, when requested. on whether the Canadian’s account info was passed on to CRA for the purpose of FATCA. If is has been passed to CRA, you can assume that the CRA did its job and passed it on to IRS.
Perhaps it was the pointed way I asked my question, but I received a quick response from the FATCA task force at my bank (CIBC) (none of my accounts were reportable). Others I know who are corresponding with me have found the request process to be almost impossibly difficult, but you have a right to this information. If the bank REFUSES to provide you, an innocent Canadian, with this information, let me know and we may be able to use you as a Witness.
The other answer the banks tell me is this: If you filled out the FATCA form and have a reportable account, you should assume that the bank did its job and turned you over to CRA/IRS. But still, I would want confirmation from the bank because banks do make mistakes.
As Badger says,
“If the CRA hasn’t notified them, the Banksters haven’t, and the IRS hasn’t generated letters yet, how would affected taxpayers know that they’re part of the group of names that were turned over?”
I know people in my local area very entrenched in hiding from this nightmare. One US person even got a letter from her bank which she didn’t respond to. I’ve attempted to talk to them about FATCA with not much luck.
I believe the IRS will send out lots of nasty letters but it will take time for them to get to this. My pre-FATCA IRS threatening letter took 4 years to land on my doorstep. Actually it was a registered letter which I signed for never suspecting it was from the IRS.
Thanks for that confirmation/clarification of the situation @ Stephen.
I think part of my confusion is that since we know that the CRA turned over <155,000) records/individuals last year, that data has already been subjected to the Patriot Act and Homeland Security laws. It already is not only being used for tax purposes re the IGA and existing Tax treaty. So the Charter and Constitutional rights of the <155,000 have already been abrogated. It is hard for me to understand why individuals must come forward to prove that specific harm has been done to them. It seems to me that whether the IRS follows up or not, contrary to our Charter and constitution, the data is now in the possession and under the control of a foreign country – for which the CRA and the <155,000 individuals now have no recourse or remedy – since none exists.
http://www.kvia.com/news/breaking-surpreme-court-justice-scalia-dies-during-hunting-trip-in-marfa/37981652
What effect would Justice Scalia’s replacement have on the future Jim Bopp case?
We only have a small amount to go to make a payment… Please dig deep… we can finish it off quickly.
I am sure there are lots of people who come here to read & never post… trying to find a solution… in the same position I am… not knowing what to do… who to turn to for help… I am not rich but I was tax stupid… the only link we all share… US persons… All gov’ts have turned their backs on us & will report us… they work for the US for free…. We are being punished for that label… some are in the position to never set foot in the US… some have no choice because of families in the US… The only way we can fight back is this litigation… Media has shown very little interest except when there is a set back for us…
This group has opened my eyes to things I never knew or understood… many are willing to help or support u when u are down…
As a group… its us against them… Do not ever forget… the US can change the game with little notice… such as the new passport revocation… If we do not stop one thing… things could get worse as we sit there helplessly. Please support the 2 brave woman who are standing up for all of us… no matter where u are… show them your support by paying off the bill quickly
I went in to my local RBC branch and asked them if they handed my info over to the CRA. The teller talked to her manager and then called head office who told me I have to find out from the CRA. The bank manager basically said that should I have a problem with that, then I should take it up with the bank’s ombudsman. I didn’t bother, but I did contact the CRA who told me that I have to ask the Revenue Minister. Last week I wrote a letter to my MP asking her if she would make the appropriate enquiry with the RM. I haven’t heard back yet.
I posed the same question to RBC Dominion. Their response was that because I signed a W9 with them, then my info was sent off to the CRA.
@badger
I guess that the courts must deal with specific individuals, not an abstract faceless number of account holders.
@Stephen Kish
It would appear that IRS computer letters have not gone out yet, as no one seems to be aware of anyone receiving an IRS letter due to FATCA. Yes, what will be the response of Canadians who receive these letters? I would refuse to comply; I would also be very unhappy to receive one of these letters, knowing that the bank(s) & CRA had transferred my account(s). I am not aware of anyone who has had their accounts reported but I will keep looking.
Wouldn’t it be the same for someone who refused to sign a W9 for RBC Dominion or any other local Canadian *foreign financial institution* that they would in that instance as well have sent that recalcitrant client’s financial information on to CRA to be forwarded to the US IRS?
Mr. A,
Thank you,
I would think so, Calgary, as I believe Canadian banks can’t close our accounts. I imagine they just sent off the account info of every person in their W9 collection. Could there be 155K of those in Canada?
I think it’s very naive to think that the IRS would send out demand letters based on FATCA submissions from Canada. I’m 100% certain there is a directive to not provide the lawsuit with evidence by doing so.