March 8, 2016 UPDATE: Legal fees paid — on to Federal Court for Charter trial contesting Canadian FATCA IGA legislation.
Canadians and International Supporters:
You came through once again: $594,970 for legal costs have now been donated and our outstanding legal bill is finally paid off.
Thanks especially to those who donated even though they never had any “spare” money to give, and despite this gave over and over and over again.
This last round of fundraising also shows that our Canadian lawsuit remains dependent on the kindness of our International Friends: There would be no lawsuit without their financial help.
Know that a very generous donation (today) from a supporter in the United States made it possible to pay off the remaining legal debt. Also please appreciate that there would be no lawsuit without the help of the Isaac Brock Society which has kindly let us use its website to solicit funds.
Our next step is the Constitutional-Charter trial in Federal Court.
For this we need more Canadian Witnesses, and my next post will be devoted only to a request for Witnesses willing to go public, like our Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen.
For the future: I want a win in Federal Court — and I want the new Liberal Government not to appeal that win.
Thank you all for your support,
Stephen Kish,
for the Directors,
Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty
Thanks Duke ….
Bubble id Love to do the renounce route but F^&#K me 2500 is insane but would solve the issue
would of never bothered with the compliance but being told by a few accountants in 2011 if didnt start chances are you could be detained at the border and with living on a border town they hooked me … which has not ever been mentioned by the customs officers ,,,with crossing over very often ! but it worked for the accountants the scared the cash out of me..
But funny thing is how many accountants on both sides of the border pre 2011 told me NO YOU ONLY FILE TAXES where you live and EARN THE MONEY so no you dont file BOTH PLACES … what a joke
@calgary411
Thanks for your reply. Your insight that these wealthy members of Canada’s business elite (who are US Persons) could feel ashamed for not knowing about filing US taxes was enlightening to me.
Should we assume that they don’t care about the ADCS legal action because:
– it is a matter of public record that they are US born &/or citizens and they, as public figures, cannot hide this from their financial institutions, and therefore have become US tax compliant (stopping the CRA account transfer to the IRS does them no good because they are filing US tax returns & FBARS anyways)? (and furthermore, they wish to be US citizens and travel freely to the US, not run afoul of the US gov./IRS etc.)
– they are so wealthy that, regardless of the magnitude of their US tax bill & accounting fees, filing US tax returns has no real bearing on their lives?
Maybe I’m dreaming but I still wonder if a passionate plea on a personal level from a small group could result in a helpful donation from at least one of these business elite.
Mr. A,
My comment came from gut instinct rather than my insight. Many executives and key personnel of large companies will have been in compliance with their US taxes all along, perhaps or likely with custom-designed benefits plans which may also include cross-border tax planning and preparation. They would be among those *who knew what their US tax obligations were* as part of their employment if not prior to. And, yes, many would want to return to the US. Most of them may be what we think of as *homelanders abroad* and have accepted / are fine with their US tax obligations. I do believe there are also many here in Calgary who hail from the US but they and their families have been here for several generations now. Some are the most generous contributors to their local community.
A passionate plea could be made to such persons if there were a path to them. Is there anyone at Brock who could arrange such? These would not be among the most accessible people.
We have tried, sending requests to meet with more visible US persons in Canada to no avail, one reason my gut tells me (so just my take regarding a possible *why*) if any were not in compliance, they would want to do so as privately as possible to not draw attention or undue publicity to themselves should they be tainted with some label of tax evasion. I don’t assume anything but don’t find it hard to understand how someone with great professional expertise in whatever area or some executives or some sports heroes or entertainment stars without the minutiae of taxes uppermost in their mind might feel some ‘loss of face’ in *not having known* of their US tax obligations.
@Duke of Devon
*Pay no attention to US foreign person*
This is what I was referring to… Kenneth Van DeMark. Do a quick search on this site also… it was talked about here… I do not recall if his accounts were just frozen or if the funds where sent… He had to go to court to get it back… I am not saying it will happen…. I am saying it could happen… u never know if things will change… US can make all kinds of demands… how do u know for sure it won’t happen? Canadian gov’t already refers to US citizens who are also canadians… as Americans living in Canada…
http://blogs.wsj.com/privateequity/2012/06/14/fatca-the-irs-very-big-stick/
@ Calgary411
This has been my experience too. But if anyone wants to reach out to them, great, And we know some have. Their employers have taken care of their compliance. Yes, Homelanders abroad is a great description. It seems their intention is to return home, which is fine of course.
But are they being recognized as the ambassadors they once were?
__
My comment came from gut instinct rather than my insight. Many executives and key personnel of large companies will have been in compliance with their US taxes all along, perhaps or likely with custom-designed benefits plans which may also include cross-border tax planning and preparation. They would be among those *who knew what their US tax obligations were* as part of their employment if not prior to. And, yes, many would want to return to the US. Most of them may be what we think of as *homelanders abroad* and have accepted / are fine with their US tax obligations.
US_Foreign_Person says
I am not saying it will happen…. I am saying it could happen… u never know if things will change… US can make all kinds of demands… how do u know for sure it won’t happen? Canadian gov’t already refers to US citizens who are also canadians… as Americans living in Canada…
—-
Point taken. We have no such definitive assurances, Any nation can capitulate to their demands.
And that’s precisely why we need our law suit, even if to the highest court, so that the courts here can demonstrate to our Government that our Charter Rights have been abrogated and other nations can follow suit for their nationals.
Bottom line: We have started here in Canada so let’s complete our funding goals and get to our Courts and set the example for other countries. Let’s be that beacon of true freedom. Let’s be the ripple that flows from sea to sea and across the oceans. Let’s show what true freedom really is for all peoples. That’s the Canadian way.
@Duke of Devon
Please ignore the few words after the link… my kid decided my time was up online & shut me off… just like I do to them… ok… I was annoyed… I won’t do that to them again… geez
Need witnesses? A Canadian can apply to that bank that won’t take U.S. persons as depositors, then when turned away, sign up as a witness. Rosa Parks knew what she was doing when she refused to give up her seat. Of particular value are naturalized Canadian citizens. Border babies are recognized under Canadian law as dual citizens; but naturalized citizens are not considered under Canadian law to be U.S. citizens and therefore the IGA-enabling legislation classifying them as such is a Charter violation. Once the Canadian Government has to refuse to turn over ANY U.S.-deemed U.S. persons, the deal is off. Also, you might be able to find a Quebecker who can complain the the form W-8 is in English.
Finally, you should try to find a small financial institution that will complain they have to register in English with a foreign government and therefore obey a foreign law under penalties imposed by that foreign government. If they have no U.S. correspondent bank they have little to lose from trashing the IGA.
ADCS’s valiant efforts to derail the IGA prior to it’s implementation has actually created a timing issue, in that the IGA hasn’t created many victims yet. I imagine it will become a lot easier to find witness once this thing reaches critical mass, but then more harm will have been done to more people in the meantime.
ADCS may find itself in a bit of a quandary here in that from a strategy point of view, it might be better to delay for as long as it takes to obtain a rich pool of IGA victims.
We need more witnesses to come forward – and fast.
Tweeters, here’s a cross-post from Lynne Swanson: http://maplesandbox.ca/2016/ask-trudeau-on-twitter/.
Prime Minister Trudeau tweeted an opportunity to ask him questions live on Twitter
tomorrowTODAY (Friday), marking 100 Days of Liberals in Office.He says this will be live. I don’t know what time, but I plan to tweet questions about FATCA. I hope others who are on Twitter will too.
@Stephen Kish
I don’t know if you remember this bank link I posted a while back for on-line banking with Canadian Direct Financial.
https://www.canadiandirectfinancial.com/Personal/GetStarted/CustomerApplication/
Canadian Financial flat out rejects US citizens and so called “US Residents for Tax Purposes.”
Hopefully this link plus screen shots have been saved for the lawsuit– if not, I’m posting them here.
Thanks,
BC Doc
BCDoc,
I just called Canada Direct which confirmed that it will open an account for a US-tainted Canadian living in Edmonton, for example, but will not (as I had expected) open an account for a US person living in the U.S.
I was also told that yes, US-tainted second class Canadian citizens will have to fill out the FATCA form — and I told her that where I come from we don’t like FATCA forms.
— Can you please find for me one Canadian whose account information was turned over to CRA/IRS last September — who will volunteer to be a witness? Just one out of the 155,000?
@Stephen, I suspect that the vast majority of the 155,000 accounts (number of actual US persons will be less since some will have multiple accounts) consist of either US persons who are not hiding out and thus not too concerned about FATCA, or US persons who have no clue about FATCA nor that their account data was sent to the USA.
WhiteKat, difficult yes, but still we seek such persons.
Stephen, yes of course.
I wonder how many Canadian US slaves who read here have 50K in any single financial institution, never mind have admitted to their bank that they are a US person for tax persons? Not many I bet. So there shouldn’t be any Brockers included in the 155,000 list. Canadian government knows it too, just stringing the whole fiasco on for as long as they possibly can, minimizing the easily provable hurts (through unreportable TFSAs for example) because they know we can and will hide pretty easily should compliance not be a feasible out.
BCDoc just sent me a screen shot of a Canada Direct application form and I have to apologize to him.
BCDoc is right: The online Canada Direct form actually says that it is unable to open an account for US citizens (!).
So I called Canada Direct again and said, “I am a US citizen living in Edmonton can I open an account?”, and was told, yes, if I am a Canadian.
I then pointed out that the online application clearly excludes me because I am a US citizen. After some discussion the rep agreed with my logic.
So, I asked, “when will you make the correction?” “Probably in May” was the answer.
BCDoc, thanks for being persistent with me, and I will pass the screen shot on to our litigators.
@Stephen
No apology necessary– I can only imagine how busy you are balancing your work on this with professional and personal obligations. Thank you for your efforts!
Bubblebustin says,
” I imagine it will become a lot easier to find witness once this thing reaches critical mass, but then more harm will have been done to more people in the meantime.”
How right she is. When people start receiving IRS notices the s–t will hit the fan but it may be too late.
Too illustrate this I will come forward with something not mentioned on Brock before. In August, 2008, I received the following notice from the IRS: FINAL NOTICE and NOTICE OF INTENT TO LEVY and NOTICE OF YOUR RIGHT TO A HEARING PLEASE RESPOND IMMEDIATELY. Amount you owe: $140,296 US. (taxes and penalties). This notice was the FIRST notice that I received from the IRS.
I’d been in Canada for 4 years as a permanent resident at the time. I went into shock and called a lawyer. Without going into all the horrid details, months later this was settled. It turned out I owed the IRS $00 and the IRS confirmed that zero balances were owed. Lawyers fees were about $5,000 US, but I thought the lawyer handled it well. Today this type situation might have been a lot worse with FATCA and FBARS. And the experience made it very easy for me to renounce later.
My point is that the IRS mechanisms take quite a bit of time but I believe they will be sending out notices to anyone they think may owe them taxes and penalties. Hopefully witnesses will come forward before it’s too late.
@BC Doc
I so agree. Stephen and the ADCS committee are the Energizer bunnies supporting all of us.
@PatCanadian
Talk about a pre OMG moment. How horrible for you. So glad you got your CLN, which I always read as : clean.
RBC Dominion informed me that my info had been sent (only after I asked), but then I signed a W-9. I imagine many of those 155,000 are like me.
Obviously I wouldn’t make a great witness in that regard (because I approved), but what I don’t approve of is the CRA having this information when it doesn’t require it of other Canadians and using it for their own purposes, because the IGA allows them to.
@Canadian Ginny
So glad we have some witnesses. Thank you for being one of them. Hopefully, ADCS will be overwhelmed with witnesses. But this may not happen until the IRS notices begin to come out.
@Bubblebustin
Sorry to hear about your experience with RBC.
@all
My comments are in no way trying to pressure anyone into being a witness. I hope for witnesses so our lawsuit succeeds. However, everyone’s FATCA situation is different. As we have seen, this is a breeding ground for depression, suicide, addiction and all manner of emotional distress. It’s a shame no one in the US government or IRS has noticed this.
Yes it is a crime actually if no one in the USG anticipated this but doesn’t gives a damn even now. That is not how drafting and implementing laws should be. But my feeling is they knew minnows would be caught up in it too. It’s the imperial empire with a new name.
And we need to keep fighting to show the Emperor has no clothes.
I am probably the least optimistic person by nature. But for some reason, I do believe we will find the witnesses we require who will take that step out of the shadows. It is actually an act of freedom and empowerment, I found. I know, sounds crazy, right? We each have our own paths. This is mine, I hope it can be for others who are contemplating being a witness.
“I have always depended on the trust of strangers”, said Blanche.
Which in a normal world is a rather bizarre statement. But not here @ IBS or Maple Sandbox. Many have actually met each other; yet the majority have not and may never. Yet our common cause is to support each other in various ways, be that through sharing information, hardships, fundraising and all the other ways we reach out to each other across the nations.
I can type all of the above. What I can never figure out is how to thank all of you who have done so much for all of us.