March 8, 2016 UPDATE: Legal fees paid — on to Federal Court for Charter trial contesting Canadian FATCA IGA legislation.
Canadians and International Supporters:
You came through once again: $594,970 for legal costs have now been donated and our outstanding legal bill is finally paid off.
Thanks especially to those who donated even though they never had any “spare” money to give, and despite this gave over and over and over again.
This last round of fundraising also shows that our Canadian lawsuit remains dependent on the kindness of our International Friends: There would be no lawsuit without their financial help.
Know that a very generous donation (today) from a supporter in the United States made it possible to pay off the remaining legal debt. Also please appreciate that there would be no lawsuit without the help of the Isaac Brock Society which has kindly let us use its website to solicit funds.
Our next step is the Constitutional-Charter trial in Federal Court.
For this we need more Canadian Witnesses, and my next post will be devoted only to a request for Witnesses willing to go public, like our Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen.
For the future: I want a win in Federal Court — and I want the new Liberal Government not to appeal that win.
Thank you all for your support,
Stephen Kish,
for the Directors,
Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty
@BC_Doc
Re the question regarding US citizenship, if the option is simply click yes or no, one would of course click no. I wouldn’t have a shred of guilt about that. God knows our political leaders have been totally dishonest with us, especially the new ones who, pre-election, were full of bravado about the evils of FATCA. Sleep easy.
I’ll toast yours answers to open an account on behalf of US-tainted daughter, BC Doc. Why on earth should any of us as Canadians have to find some work-around to protect our families and safeguard our futures? Is this what we have to teach our US-deemed US citizenship Canadian kids? YES! We should be able to ensure them, as stated by the new Prime Minister of this country, that *A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian* and we, including them, ALL have the same rights under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and must obey the same laws as everyone else in this sovereign country, Canada (not the USA — their laws stop at their borders).
@Badger
My home country’s sovereignty and autonomy and the rights of my fellow citizens and residents is still injured by USFATCA as implemented – and that will NEVER be acceptable.
Apparently the ACA doesn’t get that we have enduring loyalties to our chosen HOMES and fellows, not just to the US status we inherited or acquired or had foisted on us.
__
You are my hero. Such an inspirational post. This is exactly what is not understood.
@ BC _Doc
White, black or rainbow colour answers are perfectly acceptable in my word with respect to obnoxious intrusive unconstitutional banking questions. I have no qualms about stating my truth.
This week I had to meet up with my financial advisor as he has switched firms and I wanted to follow him, as he is the best. But I was also dreading the meeting as I expected the possibility of the Inquisition Questions. Didn’t happen. He said I still have a copy your driver’s license and I see it hasn’t expired yet, so that is fine. Crisis averted, but I had my answer lurking in my pocket. ( I also suspect he is fully aware of what I am up to, and is a donor though we never mention it- that elephant in the room.)
Who has to live this way? Well, we know the answer. But that will not stop us.
@BC_Doc. I expect in the years to come we will see many more such forms from our formerly Canadian (but now effectively IRS shills) financial institutions. May I suggest an alternate answer to the sort of questions you described above might be N/A (for Not Askable). I don’t think the banks themselves really give a damn; they are just covering their asses. The beauty of online forms is that you have an opportunity try all sorts of things in the various fields to see if they will be accepted before you actually click the submit button.
I believe the fatal flaw of FATCA is that its success absolutely depends on unwilling individuals in unwilling countries with unwilling financial institutions staffed by unwilling employees. Every stick stuck in the spokes of FATCA wheels is another step towards the ultimate failure of this abomination. I can’t wait for my opportunity to give it a try.
P.S. Many years ago I lied about my USness on a BMO Investorline application. This was long before I knew anything about US CBT, FBAR or any of the rest. FATCA hadn’t been invented yet. I can remember thinking at the time that it would just be simpler to only be a Canadian. How right I was and it has never been an issue since. I’m glad you have struck another blow for freedom.
Would mods please give Ginny my email address?
Oh, and Ginny, please drop me a line. There’s something I’d like to discuss with you. Thanks.
Done, bubblebustin.
@Canadian Ginny; you and Gwevil and the others of ADCS, IBS, and MapleSandbox are the inspiration and the mechanism and the public face that gives all of our individual opposition and rebellious hearts a chance at expression and avenues for redress and recourse – for the injuries that have already taken place, as well as a chance to prevent injury to others now, to our children, our fellows, and our home countries.
We are still here, thanks to the work of all of you.
@John Canuck
I have no qualms about telling white lies when it comes to banks trying to enforce foreign laws in my home country– I sleep like a baby! Cheers.
@Calgary411
Here’s the rub– my Canadian born minor is a hard worker and a saver. She is 15 years old and already thinking ahead to college. She’s saved up a few thousand dollars and wants to invest it so that she’ll be in good shape for university. Now a foreign government wants access to her private banking information so they can track her and tax her on her Canadian earned income. And legally this is a trust account that I am setting up for her– this foreign government has all sorts of reporting requirements for this type of account and the investments in it (exchange traded funds) that one can’t even begin to fathom. Can you imagine what an accountant would charge to prepare the forms that this foreign tyrant demands! Good thing I’m more than happy to click “no” and “Canada/Canadian” to all of those invasive questions!
@Canadian Ginny
Thank you. I am glad to hear things went smoothly as you switched your accounts over
@maz57
N/A for “Not Askable”– love it!!!
I’ve had my money with RBC Direct for close to a decade now. Some of my accounts are set up for trading on both the TSX and the NYSE. If I am purchasing investments over the NYSE, I understand the reason RBC asks for a W8-BEN– there’s income coming from the US. What I don’t get– well I do, but I don’t agree with it– is why RBC demands a complete W8-BEN if the account is not set up to trade over the NYSE (i.e. TSX only– all securities domiciled in Canada). This is overreach– this is a Canadian bank asking us to complete an American tax form where there is absolutely no grounds to ask for one.
Thank you, Calgary411.
BC_Doc,
I’ve been there. The Canadian RDSP is considered a *foreign trust* and this is the way I was taxed US$3,661 by the US for the RDSP that I am the Holder for on behalf of my son, taxed by the US for US Persons in Canada:
And, yes, I know what a US tax accountant firm charges — included in the full-meal deal I paid for getting into US tax and reporting compliance. The US government has my son’s private banking information provided in my accounts (including those held for my son) I had to provide in my FBARs to the US.
You, as far as I’m concerned, did the right thing for your daughter and your family!
Money isn’t your problem. You need to increase your efforts in getting quality witnesses. That’s your problem. The Canadian system is much better than the US system. But Canadians are fundamentally cowards in the face of US pressure in these matters. That’s the problem.
@calgary411
What will it take for you to put your country’s interests ahead of your son’s interests in this matter? Your son may need to come forward as a witness. I’ve tried myself repeatedly to come forward as a witness. I’ve always been rebuffed by @StephenKish and others. If not me then who? It may come down to your son as difficult as you may find that as a mother to accept.
@All
Actually I must confess that I lied slightly. The voting records of anyone here in King County are a matter of public record. All that is needed is the voter’s name and birthdate. Although I am indeed a PCO that isn’t required to access this information. And @StephenKish revealed his birthdate when he filed as a plaintiff in the Bopp action. It isn’t a matter of public of public record who voted for whom. But who voted in which elections is a matter of public record. If you support Rand Paul come out here and vote on Feb 20 @StephenKish.
@Dash 1729
I state this with all due respect. Often your posts offer some alternative information for many of us trying to figure out this system of US taxation. And thanks for that.
But hear this and hear me now.
Never demand that a mother or father turn their child over for the sake of national interests. You are neither qualified nor entitled to make that demand. So I will say now what I suspect others are thinking but reluctant to say:
Do no harm. Pause before you post. Be kind to yourself and to others. Remember who the foe is. It is not you, nor is it us. Reputations are often based on our words as well as our actions. That we have been injured by governments in our past, makes us allies, if anything, not adversaries.
But words count. Let’s not let them cause pain. You are a better person than this. And I always wish you well.
@Canadian Ginny
I have indeed paused before posting: for three years in fact. What I said I have been thinking of saying–but I paused before speaking–for at least three years now.
But I do feel that the ultimate test is whether a parent will put their country ahead of their children. I am not a parent and therefore do not know what I would do in such a situation. But if you are truly, honestly, talking about defending your country’s sovereignty why would anything less be expected? And if on the other hand Canada’s sovereignty isn’t at stake after all–then I’ve just played King Solomon here right?
“And @StephenKish revealed his birthdate when he filed as a plaintiff in the Bopp action.”
US court rules that I’ve seen call for redacting the month and day of birth.
@Norman Diamond
Maybe so. But such rules evidently weren’t followed in this case. And–for that matter– in another case I’m party to that I can’t get into.
@Dash
I have no doubt but that you, like many of us have been concentrating about this nightmare for many years. And your voice is as valuable as anyone else’s and I thank you for your response. I try to respect the various opinions of posters here, even if they do not jive with mine. I learn something new here every day.
But I happen to disagree with your definition of the Ultimate Test: that of putting children at risk. Not because you don’t have children yourself (that is not a prerequisite) but because it is not necessary. We are not in the era of sacrificial lambs. The adults can handle this.
We all come from different backgrounds and fact situations. In my opinion, that’s what makes this such an interesting forum.
@Canadian Ginny
The “adults” will be able to handle this only if they are willing to take risks. But beyond the initial assumption of risk that you and Gwen took on– which I greatly respect–I haven’t seen much willingness to take on risk. I myself have offered to take risk which has been rebuffed. I remain pretty unimpressed by Rand Paul. If not the huge risk of putting a child at risk–what lesser risks are people willing to take? I haven’t seen much lately beyond the initial gesture of you and Gwen and my own offers to take risk beyond just giving money have been rebuffed.
Dash, If it makes you feel any better, I’ve been “rebuffed” too both for my offers to be plaintiff and witness. Except that instead of thinking of it as being “rebuffed”, I do the happy dance that I was not accepted for either of these roles (especially since my circumstances have since changed making it an even riskier proposition for me personally). Neither you nor I were determined to be the best fits not as personal rejection (I don’ t think….lol), but because the most suitable plaintiffs and witnesses are required to ensure the win that we ALL want.
@Dash….@Kitty kitty……….
Thank you both for stepping up to the bar and being willing to volunteer as a witness.
This is indeed a matter of hanging together instead of being hung separately.
All I can manage to do in this endeaver is to put some funds in an envelope and post it off. I do wonder if I was Canadian in Canada if i would have had the moral courage (guts) to step forward?
You can find the Liberal’s stand on Fatca here https://darrellsamson.liberal.ca/liberal-party-position-on-u-s-foreign-account-tax-compliance-act-fatca/
We might want to contact this MP and ask him why he is lying on his webpage.
Yes, Dash, that would be very difficult for me to accept. I have no right to put my son into such a position — as I see it, it is still my parental duty to protect him / look out for his best interests and, as best I can, his future after I am gone (and what of my *estate* can rightly go to him. My son has no fault in this circumstance — he did not ask who he would be born to or where he was born or that circumstances would mean for him a developmental disability by which he would be entrapped into acquired USC. I will take that for not knowing what I should have known before giving birth to him in Canada — my naivety / my lack of education on citizenship and USC CBT taxation law.
My family’s experience (and that of my son’s circumstances) is not specifically about my son and anything about him other than he, like many others in Canada and other countries outside the USA, will be sons or daughters of USC parents and in the same situation of entrapment into an acquired USC, unable to renounce for *lack of requisite mental capacity* and a parent, a guardian or a trustee not allowed to act on such a person’s behalf. To me, the question should be whether or not any such sons and daughters should be entrapped into an acquired US citizenship / whether or not they are eligible for or their parent, guardian, trustee or any other Holder of an RDSP for them should have to choose not to have, as any other Canadian with a developmental disability, the opportunity to have held for them a registered RDSP taxable by the US as they have an acquired USC without meaning without consent. (Sorry for that long ill-formed sentence, but I hope you get what I mean.) In my mind, my country’s Prime Minister before I would do that has the responsibility to uphold his statement *A Canadian is a Canadian is a Canadian* and each Canadian’s rights under the Charter and not shuck it off by declaring, as the Conservative government MPs, *Just Renounce*. Yours is the same to me as the suggestion that I take my son to the US border and hand him over to the US to take care of. I could not do that either. His country is Canada; he has never lived in nor has the US any meaning for him and would be cruel ad unusual punishment because of accident of his birth to (now former) USC me. I had a choice to renounce; he and those like my son, do not nor can anyone act on their behalf in what they believe would be in such a person’s best interests.
Thanks, Ginny, for your comments on this. There be many who agree with Dash’s view that my son should be the witness to solve all of the problems of the US Person Abroad (and not Abroad). I should know if that is the consensus of all who are affected.
Badger: Thank you for your fabulous expose (anybody know how to type an accent) on American Citizens Abroad. I have no doubt that they are fighting the fight in their own way and I will respect them for that but if the folks currently at ACA had been running the show back in 1776 the United States would still be a colony.