March 8, 2016 UPDATE: Legal fees paid — on to Federal Court for Charter trial contesting Canadian FATCA IGA legislation.
Canadians and International Supporters:
You came through once again: $594,970 for legal costs have now been donated and our outstanding legal bill is finally paid off.
Thanks especially to those who donated even though they never had any “spare” money to give, and despite this gave over and over and over again.
This last round of fundraising also shows that our Canadian lawsuit remains dependent on the kindness of our International Friends: There would be no lawsuit without their financial help.
Know that a very generous donation (today) from a supporter in the United States made it possible to pay off the remaining legal debt. Also please appreciate that there would be no lawsuit without the help of the Isaac Brock Society which has kindly let us use its website to solicit funds.
Our next step is the Constitutional-Charter trial in Federal Court.
For this we need more Canadian Witnesses, and my next post will be devoted only to a request for Witnesses willing to go public, like our Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen.
For the future: I want a win in Federal Court — and I want the new Liberal Government not to appeal that win.
Thank you all for your support,
Stephen Kish,
for the Directors,
Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty
@andy05 Good observation. A good idea for some persons, but some other accidental so-called Americans might not want to send money to the U.S.A.-based affiliate. Further, the U.S.A.-based affiliate likely has only a USD account. There would be a need to sell CAD for 69 cents US each and buy them back for 73 cents U.S. instead of simply delivering the CAD directly to the Canadian office. Imagine that, some Canadians wanting to deliver donations to their Canadian charity.
The Canadian dollar just dipped below 70 cents US. http://www.xe.com
Is this caused, at least in part, by FATCA?
@Tom
Might also be due to lower energy prices and lower commodity market prices in general. I wouldn’t read too much into it.
Not all good organizations have relevant (501)(c)3 organizations. For example, Cancer Research UK seems not to, even though it is a very well respected organization and U.K. cancer research is so desperately underfunded in the U.K. that there is probably more bang for the buck, as it were.
There are also other transactions costs involved. For example, the U.S. entity cannot be just a conduit for a foreign organization.
It should be mentioned that the terms are quite a bit more lenient for Canada, Mexico, Honduras (???), and Israel to the point where funding
Important questions being asked by:
1. Blaze and all: Where are the donors who could donate generously but aren’t?
2. By George:
They did not have to completely abandon the IGA rather they could have stated that a Canadian Citizen resident in Canada under Canadian Law is>>>>>>Canadian and not a USC.
Yes, that’s all it would have taken.
3. By Native Canadian:
The silence of these systems that were created to help people when their rights are violated, is a clear SLAP in the face.
Yes, that’s the slap that hurts. I think I am suffering from abandonment syndrome. Where is my country in my time of need? How could they do this to us? Oh I forgot, it’s the law.
We must be simpletons. All of us who believe and know where our borders begin and end.
Just one Justice is all it will take to demonstrate a grade 4 geography lesson and free us. Who will be that brave Justice?
The actions from Trudeau are very clear. He lied to get into power. Lets not fool ourselves here. The CCLA is being muted and told to shut up. The government has muted the media and is wanting full “media mind control” to prevail in Canada. To say that the agreement signed (under threat from the USA known as the IGA) would harm Canada if it was overturned is something that EVERY SINGLE CANADIAN should vote on if this is true. Is Trudeau saying that “certain Canadians” will be sacrifices if the stakes are high enough? Will YOU sell your neighbor out for another country’s threats? This country is becoming LESS Canadian every single day. When the immigrants who came to Canada learn that their number might be up next as a sacrifice to keep Canada paid off, there might even be bloodshed depending on which group is sacrificed. It seems like a threat from the “mob” was given to Canada and as a result, Canada sacrificed it’s own people to pay off the “mob” Is this your Canada Mr. Trudeau?
No one gives a shit about Americans living in Canada. They have always been a privileged group, whining now only because they have to pay the piper. Why should pure Canadians risk anything on their behalf?
But WhiteKat…a privileged group? In my neighbourhood there are all kinds of (US defined) Americans, and you wouldn’t recognize them as different from anyone else. They are an insurance agent, a farmer, a small business craftsperson, another farmer, a small retailer etc. I think our untainted neighbours would find this crap as ridiculous as the next guy…..if they knew anything about it. But if their banking gets affected, this might change…… Hmmmm.
“Why should pure Canadians risk anything on their behalf?” Well, if they don’t care about American-origin Canadians in Canada, then perhaps because:
– CBT and FBAR suck Canadian money, earned and supposed to have been saved here, out of Canada and the Canadian economy, and off to the U.S.
– FATCA costs paid by Canadian financial institutions and the Canadian government (e.g., CRA) will be passed on to all Canadians.
And if principle matters along with monetary costs, there is the Canadian Charter, Canadian sovereignty, and Canadian government policies and laws, which are supposed to mean something in Canada and protect Canadian citizens and residents.
When I was in high school, we read a short story in English called “The Lottery” by Shirley Jackson. Homelanders and Canadians (who think being burdened with US citizenship is something to be jealous of) consider our “acquisition” of US citizenship as something akin to “winning the lottery”. I cannot disagree with them:
https://sites.middlebury.edu/individualandthesociety/files/2010/09/jackson_lottery.pdf
With the turnover of the Government’s documents, as required, they have now crossed the proverbial Rubicon and there is no turning back. They forfeited their best chance to represent us and remediate and renounce the grievous harm started by their predecessors. They have declared in no uncertain terms that banking interests and the interests and dictates of a foreign government trump the Charter rights of Canadian residents and citizens.
Others may argue they are just complying with court rules. There is slight possibility and no indication of their intentions to negotiate or compromise.
Game on.
If, in past days my spirits may have faltered a bit ( forgive me) I am now right back where I began. I now no longer lack patience to get this done. I will have the patience of Job, to do whatever it takes.
In Bob Seger terms, I have the fire down below. I hope new donors feel the same. I place my faith in all our supporters and current donors. Let us get this done together as one strong voice. Today marks the day for us, in no uncertain terms.
There is no way now but recourse to the courts. That is our right. For many, this will come as no surprise.
January 12, 2016. A day carved in stone.
@Pierre,
by privileged, I meant that we have the option to live and work in the USA if we choose, something our neighbours don’t have, not that we are wealthier than our neighbours.
All my life I grew up being told how lucky I was simply because of where I was born. I could not mention my US birthplace without getting such a reaction. Of course as we all know now, the joke was on me and I was not lucky at all, but only because I did not in fact exercise the option to move to the USA.
From my experience most Canadians today still view us as having something special that they do not have, although like you say, if they REALLY knew what US citizenship entailed for those living outside USA, they might see it differently. However, I have found that many fellow Canadians don’t seem to truly empathize even when I explain the reality of our situation – is this because I suck at explaining or because it is too difficult to understand or they don’t believe me or because there is an ingrained belief that we are in fact luckier? I don’t know. However, as you suggest, their opinion is even less likely to change, if/when they see their financial situation might be threatened by our not wanting to accept our ‘privileged status’ anymore. Even some of my own family members tout the line, ‘well the Canadian government doesn’t have a choice’ bull shit, and ‘you know its about time all those Americans who take advantage of our social benefits get their up and comings’. Of course they pepper that with, ‘but its not YOU the US is after’.
This is why I always have a fit whenever I see any of us (or anyone else) refer to Canadians living in Canada as ‘Americans in Canada’ or ‘duals’ or ‘dual Canadian-Americans’ or any other hybrid description, because when we/they do this it feeds into the stereotype of the lucky dual citizen who has no right to whine. With FATCA, the lucky have become the unlucky; we really are at a disadvantage if we are seen as American in any way.
@WhiteKat
I so get this. I have Canadian born cousins who, with depressing regularity, tell me how lucky I am now that I am snowbird age.
” You can rent/buy a condo/house/whatever in Florida/wherever without any problems and live there in sunshine because you are an American. We can just only go for a few months.”
As my father would say, with tongue in cheek, that’s the luck of the Irish for you.
I am not a hybrid. I am not an expat longing to go back to the homeland. Like you, I am a Canadian.
I feel no privilege only severe and catastrophic repercussions.
Donald Sutherland should stop complaining about being denied his right to vote in Canada and renounce his Canadian citizenship if he doesn’t want to live in Canada already. He should stop shooting his mouth off about being a Canadian when he’s chosen to live his life in the US. He’s no longer a Canadian as far as some here are concerned.
Right?
@canoe. Obviously I agree with you, but the average Canadian is not sleeping, eating and breathing this crap like we are. And as soon as you mention this is a problem for Americans in Canada, I think most just shut down their minds, revert to the lucky American stereotype and move on without ever thinking about the bigger ramifications that you mention.
Agree, bubblebustin. Perhaps the mirror image of the US Homelander living in Canada?
@BB huh?
Just what state of mind is Donald Sutherland in to want to maintain his voting rights in Canada while living in the US?
Is he:
– a Canadian abiding in the US
– lucky to have more than one citizenship
– unappreciative of his ability to live in Canada
– proud of his roots
– an opportunist
Most importantly, is Donald Sutherland no longer Canadian?
@ Bubblebustin
Not sure what point you are making here. Sutherland can live anywhere he wants in any country that allows that. I am not aware that he has become a US citizen. As far as he is concerned he is a Canadian citizen. He holds no US passport, doesn’t have a Congressman ( person?) he writes to to air any grievances and obviously has never voted in the US.
His point has always been, as you state, the recent inability to vote in Canada- a recent yet unchallenged change in our laws. Sorry, I am missing your point. I am guessing it is if a Canadian lives outside of Canada some think they are no longer Canadian? Not likely.
WhiteKat and I – to bring it back to the only comments that I can see that might have triggered your response- are simply stating we see no privilege attaching to being considered USC only consequences. We do not intend to live there. I left when I was five, she was even younger if I recall correctly. You have a different legacy which provides you perhaps with a different and equal point of view. I appreciate the support you have provided in our mutual efforts.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/im-canadian-expat-donald-sutherland-blasts-inability-to-vote-in-canadian-federal-elections says
Wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Sutherland, says,
Appears he found his work and other opportunities in the USA (and that should be OK) and chooses to live there (is it likely he’ll move back to Canada?). Appears many are mixed up on who they are and what they want. Perhaps if there is such a thing as CBT and all of its insane consequences, there should have to be a choice on who or what one WANTS to be. It’s just too crazy otherwise.
OK, now I see a few comments that have arrived at the same time I was posting. And Bubblebustin, I am even more confused:
“Just what state of mind is Donald Sutherland in to want to maintain his voting rights in Canada while living in the US?”
Are you factoring in the number of Canadians ( duals) that vote in the US elections? Many on this site have said they have even while they live here. Some no longer do, some still do.
I was told several years ago by a US immigration officer I should get a US passport, that could vote in US elections. I asked him why would I do that and how could I? I can’t even remember what streets I lived on. I know nothing about registering as a US voter, nor do I want to know.
My only rational choice is to vote in the country where I live. Supposedly that’s where my vote counts. Your mileage may differ. I support Donald Sutherland’s concerns. So are we saying the same thing here or talking at cross purposes? It’s late in Ontario right now for me, so perhaps I am too tired to discern what you are saying.
@ WhiteKat
“However, I have found that many fellow Canadians don’t seem to truly empathize even when I explain the reality of our situation – is this because I suck at explaining or because it is too difficult to understand or they don’t believe me or because there is an ingrained belief that we are in fact luckier?”
I’ve had that problem too. In my case I think they don’t get it because they don’t believe what I’m saying, so it might be believability that I suck at the most. Occasionally I detected some empathy but I learned not to bring the subject up again because their empathy and patience didn’t extend to a second discussion. I’m going to see how far I get into 2016 with imaginary FATCA duct tape over my mouth.
@BB ok now I get what you are saying, I think.
The difference between Sutherland and us is that he is not fighting for his right to be recognized as a first class citizen of the country he lives in. He is not being threatened or extorted by the country he was born in. He is not dealing with a ‘lucky Canadian’ stereotype that would make fellow Americans lack sympathy for any demands made on him by his birth country which of course will never happen anyway.
No one here is saying you should not retain your American citizenship if that is what you wish. However it is important IMO to be aware that Canadians lean more towards envy/disdain/fear of rather than sympathy for Americans – whether that attitude is fair or not is beside the point. Identifying publicly as American is detrimental to our fight to be recognized as Canadian simply because the USA trumps all other citizenships in peoples heads and thus Americans’ cries go unheard. Again, not fair. But people tend not to feel sorry for those they perceive as having one up on them.
@Ginny
Thank you. I too appreciate everything you’re doing. Suffice it to say that we’re coming at the same problem from two different angles.
I just get the feeling that those who’d like to retain their US citizenship while living in Canada are somehow thought of a being the source of the problem, when we too are victims (and perhaps more so than people like you who don’t feel that connection) – that our feelings of American-ness are somehow threatening to undermine the argument for the existence of accidental US citizenship. Being a Canadian, I am as equal a victim of Canada’s decision to not uphold its sovereignty as anyone else. I look at how I feel about my two citizenships like someone asking me which of my two children I love more. Sure one might be a real pain in the butt, but you hope they might change – to a point though (which I am nearing). I certainly get how you don’t feel the way I do though, and as you know support your case.
Canada’s my home, just as Donald Sutherland’s home is the US. Would taking US citizenship make Sutherland less Canadian? Only if he wants it to, and he should be supported either way.
Even if Donald Sutherland were a US citizen, he should no more be forced to renounce Canadian citizenship than I should renounce my US. The problem is not people having more than one citizenship, it’s CBT – or in your case, feeling US citizenship is being imposed on them.
@Calgary411
Thank you for the info on Sutherland.
“Perhaps if there is such a thing as CBT, there should have to be a choice on who or what one WANTS to be.”
That would make it Taxation Based Citizenship, something the US won’t ever admit to having.
@Whitekat
“Identifying publicly as American is detrimental to our fight to be recognized as Canadian simply because the USA trumps all other citizenships in peoples heads and thus Americans’ cries go unheard. Again, not fair. But people tend not to feel sorry for those they perceive as having one up on them.”
I’m not going to compensate for people’s stupidity by going underground.
G’day Brockers
Regarding this statement written above:
“Our aim is to expunge every trace of the FATCA “agreement” between Canada and the United States — and in so doing, end all such extorted one-sided international FATCA “contracts” — worldwide”
How do you envisage the process working to end FATCA contracts worldwide if you succeed in Canada or what actions can you facilitate or be involved in. What have you got at your disposal to make all this happen?
Would appreciate your ideas
(From a little town in Australia)