March 8, 2016 UPDATE: Legal fees paid — on to Federal Court for Charter trial contesting Canadian FATCA IGA legislation.
Canadians and International Supporters:
You came through once again: $594,970 for legal costs have now been donated and our outstanding legal bill is finally paid off.
Thanks especially to those who donated even though they never had any “spare” money to give, and despite this gave over and over and over again.
This last round of fundraising also shows that our Canadian lawsuit remains dependent on the kindness of our International Friends: There would be no lawsuit without their financial help.
Know that a very generous donation (today) from a supporter in the United States made it possible to pay off the remaining legal debt. Also please appreciate that there would be no lawsuit without the help of the Isaac Brock Society which has kindly let us use its website to solicit funds.
Our next step is the Constitutional-Charter trial in Federal Court.
For this we need more Canadian Witnesses, and my next post will be devoted only to a request for Witnesses willing to go public, like our Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen.
For the future: I want a win in Federal Court — and I want the new Liberal Government not to appeal that win.
Thank you all for your support,
Stephen Kish,
for the Directors,
Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty
@Ginny, “I feel humiliated to have to keep begging- yes I used that word- for donations.”
“Humiliated” is probably the wrong word here is why?
Speaking for myself, I should have been sending more and sending it faster so I bear shame not you.
You should feel no humiliation as you are supported by a band of friends that literally circles the globe!! We are a rather motley band of friends and not the stereotype expat sipping champaigne on a boat in the Med but friends nonetheless.
This debt is going to get paid, the litigation SHALL be funded and the litigation SHALL proceed. The timeline was simply slightly off but it was amazing that it was so close regardless.
@NativeCanadian……you are the man. Simply brilliant, these people must be shamed. You hit the nail months ago when you talked about tractors blocking a motorway, it needs to be in your face.
@Ginny, I can not remember but was testimony ever introduced where you simply do not recognize any citizenship other than Canadian? That would be extremely powerful to bring up again and again. I have long argued that this all is NOT a tax problem rather its a citizenship problem. It would be wonderful to start seeing articles about additional foreign citizenship imposed without consent.
IF the USA can impose citizenship on you who was born on the wrong side of the river, impose citizenship on Calgarys son who was born in Canada, what would stop the USA from imposing citizenship on anyone born within five miles of its land border? Do not think that sounds crazy because there is an international precedent for that, all persons born in the northern counties of Ireland which is the sovereign territory of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland are citizens of the Republic of Ireland.
@ George
Please, George it would break my heart if you felt by my words you” should’ have been doing more. You have been a constant supporter and have cheered so many of us with your kind words. You bring smiles with your every post. As do many.
But where are those people who are affected ( unlike you) who could afford to help and don’t? How do we reach them?
Maybe I should practice my yodeling across the world?
@Ginny, I can not remember but was testimony ever introduced where you simply do not recognize any citizenship other than Canadian? That would be extremely powerful to bring up again and again.
The government lawyers did not consider Gwen and I important enough to bother summoning us for Examinations on our affidavits. I would have loved to have been cross examined by any or all of them.
I doubt that they would have asked me that question anyway but I assure you, I would have quite ably inserted my assertion at some point in the examination that I do not recognize the USG jurisdiction over me. I can only imagine their follow up questions if I had. It would go something like this: you are a lawyer, who supposedly knows and respects the rule of law and yet you contend that having been born in the USA, having not formally renounced your bona fide US citizenship, you deny you are a US citizen?
I would have pulled my chair up a little closer to the table, looked them straight in the eyes and said ” Listen carefully to what I am about to say, and see if you can, as lawyers yourselves, appreciate and grasp what I am about to tell you” or words to that effect. Alas, I didn’t get that opportunity.
However, whenever I had been interviewed by the press, I push that point very clearly. The distance of one measly mile across one narrow river changed my life circumstances. And you are absolutely correct. It isn’t about taxes. It’s about a lot of other things, and one of them is that it is a citizenship problem. It’s also a power grab of information, as well. And an attempt at world domination. I could go on and on. And probably will some other day.
@PatCanadian
I DO NOT think it would be so easy for any “bounty hunters” to come up here and actually do anything other than ask(threaten). There are several reasons for this.
1) Even if not a Canadian citizen, a permanent resident is still protected by the Charter etc.
2) The IRS, for all its forms/ etc other than FATCA form 8938, must go through the Justice Department before any sort of summons is issued. And one would hear from the IRS before any dog-face bounty hunter showed up at one’s door.
3) If the CDN courts will not enforce a tax lien in Canada I cannot imagine any sort of “extradition” would be possible. The idea is absurd.
I was worried about US police being able to come up here ever since I learned of the Beyond the Border Action Plan. Everyone has told me not to worry about this. I know bounty hunters/sheriffs have some power in the US but seriously, Canada is NOT in US jurisdiction. It’s one thing to get “tax” information but quite another to come over the border and threaten people, face to face while living in Canada.
One more word. In all my years in litigation, never have I come across a case where the named plaintiffs were not summoned for examination. You can draw your own conclusions.
It’s January. It’s cold out. I wonder how they’re doing in the Florida hotels these days, when so many Canadians would be visiting. How much has the business declined because FATCA and FBAR victims won’t take a chance visiting U.S.A.? It would be difficult to isolate that statistic from other factors such as a weak Canadian dollar making Floirda more expensive, and a stronger economy motivating more people to take vacations. However, ADCS-ADSC can urge Canadians to take their vacations elsewhere equally warm in protest. Canadians who would not be at risk flying over U.S.A. might just do so.
@Patricia Moon
I hope you are right. However, things are changing and not for the better. Just a few years back, I never imagined that the Canadian banks would give financial information on US persons to the CRA and then the CRA would pass this information to the IRS. And that most of these suspect US persons would be Canadian citizens. It is a slippery slope.
@Ginny, I have a great big smile thousands of miles away. 🙂
Yes, I did kind of think that such a question would have been “ideal” for you.
Interesting and valid point that they did not want to question you guys. You especially have the ability from your professional life to “redirect” a question through your “answer” and they very likely know that is a place they do not want to go.
Does a Crown Lawyer even dare to call a Canadian Citizen an “American?”
It would be fun if you were examined to just by chance and coincidence to have a Canadian Passport in your pocket, even an expired one.
There is a part of me that would like to have the Crown Lawyer examined and asked for the record “Is Ginny in the eyes of the Canadian Government a Canadian equal to all other Canadians?”
This has been another outstanding day at Brock. Many thanks to John Richardson and Patricia Moon for their tribute to Dr. Pinheiro and to Furious AC, George, NativeCanadian, Don, calgary411 and Ginny for their inspiring comments on this thread. You’re all helping to keep my tank of determination topped up.
SMALL TIP to anonymous cash donors: If you’re unsure about leaving the return address blank, borrow an address. I tested this using a local charity’s address. I figured that if for some reason Canada Post had to do a “return to sender”, then the cash would be put to good use at least. This, of course, is an extremely slight probability. I don’t know what the situation is in Canada but in the USA mail without a return address which comes from outside the country is considered to be suspicious. Undeliverable mail is opened by postal employees and any cash enclosed goes into the government kitty.
@Pat Canadian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounty_hunter
Canada
Bounty hunting in Canada is a totally prohibited practice.
https://lawdiva.wordpress.com/2011/09/21/no-place-for-bounty-hunters-in-canada/
In Canada, bail bondsmen and bounty hunters are illegal and to world-wide critics of the practice, immoral and discriminatory.
And Canada is not alone. Most countries, with the exception of the Philipines, will charge a bounty hunter with kidnapping if they remove a citizen, albeit a fugitive, from their soil. The authority of a bounty hunter does not extend beyond the jurisdiction of his or her home country or state ….
That is why the world’s best known bounty hunters, Duane and Beth Chapman, aka Dog the Bounty Hunter’s, recent threats to capture Oscar-winning actor Randy Quaid, now living in Vancouver, can’t be taken for more than a publicity ploy timed for the start of their new season on A&E television.
Dog surely knows that Canada and the U.S. entered into a memorandum of understanding in 1988 that provides there will be no cross-border kidnapping of Canadians.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa-valley-man-abducted-by-u-s-bounty-hunters-1.474105
Since 1988, Canada and the United States have an agreement to prevent cross-border kidnappings. Under the memorandum of understanding, no Canadian can be taken from Canada to a U.S. jurisdiction.
The rule was put in place after an 1981 incident, when U.S. bounty hunters abducted Sidney Jaffe, a Toronto man wanted in the U.S. on fraud charges. After protests from the Canadian government, he was eventually released and returned to Canada.
In case anyone has missed it, Lynne Swanson has a post at MapleSandbox.ca:
January 1, 2016 — 2015 Year in Review
At year-end…
@Patricia Moon
RE: “In Canada, bail bondsmen and bounty hunters are illegal and to world-wide critics of the practice, immoral and discriminatory.”
I agree and am certainly glad it’s illegal now. However, as we have seen, laws can change and the good old USA seems to be becoming more and more extraterritorial. This is something on the radar that I believe we need to be aware of.
***The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society*** This part of the charter is vague to say the least. Are we led to believe that the charter is only law sometimes? what is “reasonable” to the government and what is considered “reasonable” to Canada? If this section of the charter is used by the government in any way to be a defense of our lawsuit, does that mean people’s rights are for sale? Can the Charter be sold out based on threats from another country? It would appear, that looking at Trudeau’s writing of the charter, he never intended to sell the people of Canada. This might be a loophole that the new prime minister needs to close to fix his father’s work. Looking at Justin Trudeau’s lack of response on this lawsuit, it seems he is ok with selling Canadian’s rights to another country.
Today Stephen Kish gave us this quote by Beckett: “Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.”
I like this quote by Harriet Beecher Stowe (1811-1896), American abolitionist and author:
“When you get into a tight place and everything goes against you … never give up then, for that is just the place and time that the tide will turn.”
Keep on keeping on Brockers or as Sir Isaac said, “Surgite!”
@NativeCanadian
***The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society***
“Can the Charter be sold out based on threats from another country?”
I think this likely loophole in the Charter has allowed the encroachment of US extraterritorial law to come into Canada. Of course with the help of Harper’s Conservative government. We’ll see if it’s used as a defence to the lawsuit under the Liberal government. Wonder if Justin Trudeau will fix this or continue to sell the rights of Canadians with US taint due to US threats of economic sanctions.
@PatCanadian @NativeCanadian
Since 1993, Canadian laws need only be 5% constitutional.
Edgar Schmidt, former general counsel in the Legislative Services Branch of the federal Department of Justice sued Canadian government over this change:
“Since 1993, his statement of claim says, those provisions have been interpreted to mean that proposed legislation must be “manifestly” inconsistent with the Charter or Bill of Rights in order to be declared not constitutionally compliant. If, in the opinion of counsel, a provision is “likely or even almost certainly” inconsistent with the Charter — even if the likelihood is 95 per cent or more — but an argument can be made that it is consistent — even if that argument has a less than five per cent chance of success — then there is no duty to inform the House of Commons that there is a potential Charter issue (unless the minister forms a different opinion).
http://www.nationalmagazine.ca/Articles/November/The-whistleblower.aspx
@Bubblebustin
Wow! Canadian laws need only be 5% constitutional. Seems I’ve heard this somewhere before but still sounds incredible.
I see Joseph Arvay is cited in the article in National Magazine. Although my legal background is almost nil, I’ll read this one carefully:
http://www.nationalmagazine.ca/Articles/November/The-whistleblower.aspx
Regarding Ginny feeling humiliated.
I do not believe a better heroine from history can be found.
Many have sacrificed.
Many have died in the quest for justice or freedom.
And many can be found in areas that treat women with such disdain as to disavow the worth of their very existence.
And yet, you and Gwen stand out among the bravest of the brave.
Brave Heroines for our time and place and day.
Shared as it is with Gwen it represents two completely normal people willing to put their very way of life on the line for all .
So, I cannot accept that one of our heroines feels humiliated by the lack of donations to this date or takes it so personally that ‘begging’ for donations is a humiliation for her.
I simply would NOT have it. The lack of donations is a worry and leads to an exhortation for all those who know what is needed and does nothing.
In all of history , it takes one , two or a small group to do something that beings the effort to make a difference. To win the day. To turn the tide back to free society.
IF it were not for Isaac Brock?
Laura Secord?
Those on the bridge at Lexington?
Did any know when they set out to do something out of conviction, out of having had enough, out of worry for their freedom, their future…. ??
All of the nameless men and women who in war fought for and died for a cause. Did they know what would happen? They just did what they felt they had to do in their time and place.
Ginny and Gwen, you are our heroines in our time and place. No matter how this turns out you will always be that.
I have to include Lynne Swanson, Tricia, Calgary411 and many others as well as our leaders and our lawyers in the litigation.
But for you we would not have come this far. So, THANK YOU!
NO humiliation allowed.
We WILL get this done, get it funded and we will fight in the courts for what is right and what must be restored to us as individuals, citizens and nation.
Is it not ironic that the very vehicle we utilize to restore our rights is not respected enough by his own son as current PM to honour that commitment , or his campaign promise.
Just a good looking kid with sweet talk that means nothing when it comes to the crunch.
***The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society***
Regardless of the judges ruling in our Summary Trial, there is NOTHING about the IGA that can be ‘demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society’ !
Certainly not the IGA , or FATCA or anything else that strives to hamstring one’s human existence to the point of slavery. There IS NOT free and democratic society for slaves.
@PatCanadian:
Article you linked to regarding the whistleblower lawyer , represented by Joe Arvay is VERY interesting indeed.
Inasmuch as there was very little coming from the government on whether or not they sought a legal opinion regarding the IGA.
As this took place sometime in 2012 2013 and appears was won by Schmidt considering the judges comments, it would be interesting to hear the outcome… was it appealed by the government? Did he receive compensation. God knows he deserved it.
@FuriousAC
Bubblebustin originally cited this article in the previous comment. I haven’t read the whole thing yet but will look into this further. I agree there is nothing about the FATCA/IGA situation which represents freedom and democracy. Our hope is with the Charter Challenge and looking out for ourselves on an individual basis. Thanks to Ginny and Gwen and ADCS team.
Great article http://www.nationalmagazine.ca/Articles/November/The-whistleblower.aspx @bubblebustin, @PatCanadian, et al. Very much relevant to claims the Finance Dept. and the Cons made re the FATCA IGA re its constitutionality, and also their claims that they didn’t have to even disclose IF they had obtained an opinion from the Justice Dept. as to that fact – stating attorney-client privilege for the very existence or NON-existence of such a report or opinion or whether they had even sought the same (I believe that was in the documents from either an FOI or a Parliamentary question from MP Ted Hsu, or Brison, or Mai, or in portions of the responses to various aspects of inquiries that all 3 made – all available on Maple Sandbox and here at IBS). Were the Cons and the CRA and Finance and Justice counting on it not being proven to be a lie because no-one had PROVED that the IGA was unconstitutional YET, and they were counting on ordinary Canadians like us not being able to mount and fund a Charter or constitutional challenge.
See also this one: http://www.nationalmagazine.ca/Articles/September-2015-Web/Ruling-on-FATCA-s-overreach.aspx and contrast the coverage with the author’s angle at the Canadian Lawyer mag http://www.canadianlawyermag.com/legalfeeds/2893/atca-injunction-dismissed.html .
@PatCanadian
I understand that laws change in ways we never expected. But in order for any summons to be issued for tax issues, the IRS must go through DoJ. That takes a while. And there would be notification inbetween. The only area where IRS does not have to do that is with FATCA form 8938. It was specifically set up that way due to the fact that the IRS, even though responsible for overseeing FUBAR, was not able to go after anyone directly.
So let’s say, US cops are up here, which the Harper govt so graciously arranged for us. As far as I know, they still are not allowed to apply US law here; they have to operate under the auspices of the RCMP. Even IF, they would have to have a warrant from the Justice Department. Bounty Hunters do not work at the federal level.They cannot just come across the border and grab people. There is a MOU about this and it is understood that Canada will consider this kidnapping.
Again, if CDN courts will not enforce tax liens against Canadians, I seriously doubt the CDN govt would stand by and allow CDNs to be forcibly removed for small tax bills. And I doubt the IRS would put any effort into that either.
Please excuse but I am recently on a huge “thing” about not letting imagination get out of line with all this. I think expats as well as condors need to avoid taking ideas to extremes that are unlikely. We are not doing ourselves any favours if we allow the compliance condors to exaggerate things we know are not true and we should try not to scare the bejesus out of ourselves. It is irresponsible for tax lawyers to imply much about immigration law, nevermind what the law is about “bounty hunters.” All I am trying to do is pass on what I have read about. And it does not agree at all with the idea that just because the IRS may use collection agencies, suddenly we are going to see bounty hunters outside the jurisdiction of the United States. It’s like, it’s a fact that we know of no one who has been hit with FUBAR penalties outside of the OVDP/OVDI programs. No one. And the same goes for anyone being refused entry to the US. (The bitcoin guy does not count because he had extra issues). Plus he was not refused due to the (unenforceable) Reed amendent. Even with DHS taking over Reed, the law remains unenforceable for the very plain reason that the IRS CANNOT RELEASE THAT INFORMATION. Until the Congress passes something new or overrides Section 6103, there is no way one can be stopped at the border for renouncing for tax purposes. So when anyone starts going on about the border, one must take that into account. And ditto for any of the other hyped-up stuff we hear. I am tired of people getting away with scaring us with stuff that is simply not true. And every time I hear it, I am going to shoot off my mouth.
Why are you begging for money to help in your fight to avoid your obligation of compliance? As I was told before I complied with FATCA and FBAR “Being a US citizen is a privelege, and with privilege comes responsibility”
Grow up and face your responsibility like many responsible Americans have already done!