March 8, 2016 UPDATE: Legal fees paid — on to Federal Court for Charter trial contesting Canadian FATCA IGA legislation.
Canadians and International Supporters:
You came through once again: $594,970 for legal costs have now been donated and our outstanding legal bill is finally paid off.
Thanks especially to those who donated even though they never had any “spare” money to give, and despite this gave over and over and over again.
This last round of fundraising also shows that our Canadian lawsuit remains dependent on the kindness of our International Friends: There would be no lawsuit without their financial help.
Know that a very generous donation (today) from a supporter in the United States made it possible to pay off the remaining legal debt. Also please appreciate that there would be no lawsuit without the help of the Isaac Brock Society which has kindly let us use its website to solicit funds.
Our next step is the Constitutional-Charter trial in Federal Court.
For this we need more Canadian Witnesses, and my next post will be devoted only to a request for Witnesses willing to go public, like our Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen.
For the future: I want a win in Federal Court — and I want the new Liberal Government not to appeal that win.
Thank you all for your support,
Stephen Kish,
for the Directors,
Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty
@Badger, should I repeat what I said in prior comments? Can you not address these specifically without asking me to repeat myself?
@Badger, do you want me to copy/paste?
Why do so many have such a problem with differing opinions/viewpoints to the point where they feel like they have to villify? Seriously…you all need to think on this….me too. Night BB and Badger.
The CBT lawsuit is noble, necessary, and hopeless. Same as the Bopp lawsuit.
It would have been better if ADCT had waited until ADCS is finished with.
There is something else that could be done, theoretically, while I’m dreaming. Eritrea could sponsor a UN resolution against the US. Eritrea’s UN resolution could be copy-pasted from the US’s UN resolution against Eritrea.
Canada thinks the US is Canada’s closest friend, but that is silly. The gigolo screws lots of people who think they’re his friend, but they’re not, the friendship is one direction only. When CBT is the issue, Eritrea is the US’s closest friend. We see how friends treat each other. It’s time to stop dreaming.
@Badger re: ” And the “constructive “main argument” or helpful opinion” in the last two comments were …?”
I failed, as no main arguments or helpful opinions were in the ;ast two comments, but you must have missed the ones before that when emotion had not taken over. Must confess, emotions get the better of me. I just wish that I (and others) could address the arguments and not diverge into the area where emotions get the better of all of us. It would make for more fruitful discussions. I suck at that myself.
@ND re: “The CBT lawsuit is noble, necessary, and hopeless. Same as the Bopp lawsuit.
It would have been better if ADCT had waited until ADCS is finished with ”
Your comment is extremely offensive and disrespectful. Are you working for the US government as a saboteur of both the Canadian and the US lawsuits? BB and Badger, get on this guy!
Kidding! 🙂 This is where everyone laughs.
“Are you working for the US government”
Yes. Here’s proof. I wrote “Eritrea could sponsor a UN resolution against the US. Eritrea’s UN resolution could be copy-pasted from the US’s UN resolution against Eritrea.” Who other than a US agent would want to see a UN resolution copy-pasted from the US’s UN resolution?
@SCC, I support the ADCS lawsuit wholeheartedly. I have met and/or corresponded with the directors and one of the plaintiffs, and several others involved in these efforts. I have faith in their ability, their judgement, their commitment, and I greatly respect all the voluntary time and efforts, skill and expense they’ve given to this and other sites, the lawsuit/s, and other related initiatives – since at least 2011. I have no doubt that there has been a great deal of time and energy and thoughtful weighing and debate behind the decision to move against US extraterritorial CBT and that it wasn’t taken lightly.
I also understand the concern that this is an additional burden to carry – when the first one is also heavy and the struggle expected to be protracted. But I also see why the two suits are complementary – like having to sever multiple tentacles in order to be free – or create a kind of pincer movement on more than one front. Those along with the independent efforts to get a human rights complaint addressed by the UN, and to force the US to stop effectively denying people the ability to exercise their legal right to expatriate (via ever higher barriers to renunciation in the form of mounting fees, forms, and increasing wait times for consulate appointments) are all facets of this problem. And we all stand oriented at somewhat different angles to it and have different perspectives – perhaps depending on our situation.
I am not sure that the best path is clearcut. I just know that I have faith in the organizers, and none of us have a crystal ball.
I have to say I agree with SCC. While I understand that CBT needs to be attacked, I was quite dismayed at seeing the donation base for the Canadian legal challenge offered a split option.
I am also dismayed on the lack of word on the Human Rights complaint before the UN, and I’m beginning to regret putting my name to it.
How many irons can be in the fire before there’s not enough energy put to any of them?
I forgot to add that I’m out of the situation, having renounced, and given the US a piece of my mind, both at the consulate, and with a statement with the 8854.
I’ve been hanging around here since the beginning of the site. Except for the implementing legislation, and increased renunciation fees, nothing has changed. It’s been, what, 5 years?
I am seriously beginning to think it is time to leave this all behind me, once and for all.
“I am seriously beginning to think it is time to leave this all behind me, once and for all.”
Yes, but your participation in this site helps other victims.
“and given the US a piece of my mind, both at the consulate, and with a statement with the 8854”
They will never care. You help by particpating here, not there.
Actually I think two employees of the US embassy in Tokyo cared a bit, but that was in 2011 and I wouldn’t expect them to still care now. Here are the two.
I mentioned to a passport officer that the Social Security Administration returns US passports by unregistered air mail from the US to Japan, and she grimaced. I continued with a mention that the IRS returns US passports by unregistered sea mail from Germany to Japan. She hid her face. I wonder if she didn’t believe me.
I mentioned to the consular officer who accepted my renunciation that I used to write honest declarations of known problems on US tax returns instead of committing perjury. She interrupted by saying “Good.” I continued by saying “I get penalized for it.” She was speechless and she looked shocked.
But on the 8854 or anything like that, no. The IRS and a Tax Court judge had taught me to just commit perjury and sign the things without speaking up.
@The Mom
*I am also dismayed on the lack of word on the Human Rights complaint before the UN, and I’m beginning to regret putting my name to it*
Why would u regret it… its a clear violation of human rights… its just… u are doing many people a favour by putting your name to it… I am not in the position to put my name on anything… I have a too complicated situation that involves many elders in my family… U can not regret something u know is wrong.. just because there has not been an answer from the UN…
*I am seriously beginning to think it is time to leave this all behind me, once and for all*
Your viewpoint is important… u had your OMG moment… then got rid of the citizenship that u may or may not have wanted… for someone who just found out… the panic and the worry is a huge burden… the more people talk about it & try to do something… is better then being helpless & let this crap take over your life… when I had my OMG moment… I was in a total panic… didn’t know what to do…. not that I know what to do now… but it allows others who are becoming aware of the situation not to feel they are all alone… this is what this mb offers me… not to feel all alone & to learn something all the time… so please… don’t just give up even though your problem is solved… if u can help one person.. its a good thing…
@all We are all here to work on our lawsuit. I have no issues if other lawsuits are started and funded by donation. I have done a lot for this cause as I and my family are victims of our own government turning against us. There should be charges of treason brought against the Canadian government, but they can hide behind laws that they have created to protect them from the public. Canada is an open door to human rights violations and to abuse Canadian citizens. I will continue to fight, and to donate and will not stop until innocent people’s rights are restored. I let our past prime minister know what I thought of his decisions face to face. If the possibility arises, I will also meet the new prime minister and give him my two cents as well. We are all on the same side here and this site has helped an incredible amount of people here and around the world who have been traded for money. The root of all evil dictates our governments decisions and the people suffer. On with the court challenge full steam!
@USFP,
“*I am also dismayed on the lack of word on the Human Rights complaint before the UN, and I’m beginning to regret putting my name to it*
Why would u regret it… its a clear violation of human rights… ”
It most certainly is. It seems to be going nowhere, though, and my head is now up in the Whack-a-mole game, without benefit.
As for leaving this behind, the stress and outrage I go through EVERY day when I visit this site to keep up on the issue, hoping for change, is not the only stress I have. In a single income family, in a geographically isolated city, my husband is facing layoff. His company, the city’s largest employer, is in bankruptcy protection. We are facing possible financial ruin, and the collapse of our city (which would take ALL of our equity with it). There is nowhere to commute to. We still have children at home. My remaining parent has severe dementia that I’ve been dealing with for 6 years.
I just can’t take the added stress anymore, I’m not a spring chicken.
The Mom:
Please let me address your concerns about the UN Human Rights Complaint. The United Nations process is very, VERY slow. We have learned that an application such as ours can take as long as three years to be heard. Furthermore, until the UN informs us otherwise, we are bound to keep confidential the contents of the Complaint and all matters concerning our communications with the UN. In other words we’re under a “gag order”. There is nothing the organizers of the Complaint can do about this. We are as much in the dark as you are and when the light is finally shone upon it we will be shouting it to the heavens, you can be assured of that.
What we are all involved in here requires the most steadfast patience any of us have ever known. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for being one of the signatories. There is no need to regret your action. Hang in there with us!
The Mom,
Thanks for your views in another difficult exchange here at Brock. I just want to say to you that I, personally, understand your stress and would encourage you to do what you have to in order to bring your own personal stress down to an easier level.
I very much appreciate you and everyone else who did step forward to put your names to the UN Human Rights Complaint, which we asked the UN to hold in confidence. I, too, am distressed that with all we have done to try to get the simple courtesy of some answer from the UN Human Rights people to our Complaint’s status, it has not come.
I feel the same way about letters to the new Canadian Liberal government and its Ministers if it is to be that we do not get some exchange with them, even a simple acknowledgement that they have read what we have submitted. That non-communication is the reason I am committed to litigation and on more than one front as I, personally, think that is the only course of action that makes sense. I hope we will get others of the eight or nine million abroad, many of whom will have not felt comfortable to support Canadian litigation. We in Canada can and should support the Canadian litigation and hope there will be new supporters for the CBT litigation, whether or not we can or cannot also support both. (It is where most of my limited $$$ will continue to be donated.) Of course, enough of us, those affected, have to have the will / the stomach to hang in there with both moral and financial support as we best see it. When any of us can no longer do that because of the continuing destroying stress, we have to make further hard choices.
Thanks once again, The Mom, for all you have done and your participation to help others here at Brock. I really do wish you well with what you have to do for yourself and your family going forward.
@TheMom, I’m sorry to hear about your troubles. You live in the Soo right? Or do I have you confused with someone else? Anyway, I and my spouse grew up there, so are familiar with how devastated the local economy is when the steel plant is not doing well, and how geographically isolated it is. Maybe that’s why we call it ‘THE SOO.’ I also get you about the stress of raising children on one income while dealing with aging parents at the same time(they don’t call it the sandwich generation for nothing).
And I TOTALLY get you about the stress of coming to this website every day looking, waiting for months and years on end for things to change. At least, for you, you are completely FREE from US personhood! That is awesome! I WISH I could say that!
But you know what, I think maybe you are suffering from a bit of PTSD and that could be why you are still stuck in the mode you are in, visiting here daily, rehashing past horrors. Perhaps it is time for you to work on letting go of your ‘OMG moment’ and the fallout you experienced from all this FATCA BS nightmare, so you can be healthy enough emotionally to deal with all the other stresses in your life, and maybe have some fun times too! And yeah, perhaps staying away from Brock for awhile will help you in this process,
I pray for the day when I no longer have the urge/need to visit this website, and actually think I should start doing this now rather than waiting for relief from FATCA/CBT/FBAR, as the thought of still being here another 3 years from now is quite depressing. I think the ostriches we all like to criticize are much smarter than the rest of us obsessed people, as they carry on with their lives as usual without all the mental health issues associated with being in constant fight mode.
@The Mom
Sorry to hear about your issues…. I understand the dementia issue, there are a few people in my family who are also suffering from this & being family… I help care for them… which is frustrating & a hardship but they are family… some are US persons… worse part of the disease…. the person u use to know is gone… a stranger has been left behind…
I also find it frustrating that everything that has been tried has not work other then a lawsuit to force the gov’t to do their job…. I do it because the gov’t is in the wrong & I won’t go away quietly… that is why I believe in the lawsuit & everything… As a group… we will force the gov’t to do what they should have done… tell the US to take a hike… every gov’t in the world has forgotten… they are doing the dirty work for the US for FREE…. US persons world wide now are not welcome & they are treated as a 2nd class person with a separate door to come in & out… Do u think the US cares… no… all they do is make it harder… become a bigger bully then they are already… time for this crap to stop…
I will continue to donate to the ADCS challenge, as much as I can. This litigation is too important. I will also continue to write to our Canadian MP’s. We need to get our voices heard. I just worry about these donations falling short. At this pace we will not make the next retainer by February. what happens at that point? Is there a plant B?
I just read that Trudeau plans to reinstate the court challenges program. Does anyone know anything about this? I missed the throne speech, not sure if it was mentioned. I wonder if this would help our cause.
Thank you for all of your comments and understanding.
@White Kat, yes, you have the correct location. We are all terrified up here right now. The city barely survived the steel plant’s employee numbers dropping from 13,000 in the mid 80s to only 3,000 today. Without going into detail, my household’s exposure to this city is quadrupled compared to the average person.
I wouldn’t be surprised if I have PTSD. This newly-minted US person problem popped up right after I spent a year caring for my grandmother with dementia and her death, the next year caring for my pre-retirement age mother dying from skin cancer, the death of my other two grandparents, and my father’s descent into dementia. My only sibling, during that time, has been forced to fly back and forth to work in Fort Mac, with no ability to help support me in these situations.
I am truly at my wit’s end.
“SecondClassCanadian says
December 4, 2015 at 11:06 pm
@Badger, Just tried to express an opinion not agreeable with the ‘in crowd’ without attack or pity ploy defense. Not possible I know. But one can dream.”
Expressing an opinion is one thing and welcomed beyond measure by all in this community.
There is great empathy based on common struggles and experiences in which all can relate.
However , opinions expressed with the addition of personal attacks , snide comments and assumptions of personal motives of anyone who disagrees is a hallmark. And not a good one.
Questioning a champion of one’s own cause , a vital cause, is like the damsel in distress telling Sir Galahad he is not the one wanted to be the rescurer because you don’t think his horse will hold both of you because Galahad’s armour is too heavy!
Does the damsel want to stay lying in the cold mud with the enemy in hot, close pursuit or is she willing to allow herself to be rescued? Even if the Champion is not worthy in the eyes of the damsel?
Looking around for another champion because damsel does not like the cut of the champion’s jib certainly looks like the damsel either does not want or does not need a champion.
The main thrust of SCC’s posts to date appear to be more divisive , derisive and critical than anything else.
The very choice of words is extremely telling.
ANYONE with any personal experience in how FATCA has impacted the lives of so many would certainly be much more sympathetic, empathetic, SUPPORTIVE and encouraging of all the efforts of the leadership.
Look around. How many supporters are there? How many champions?
Criticizing the Champions of the FATCA cause in any form whatsoever is so lacking in class and appreciation of their efforts one can only conclude that other motives are at work.
Marie,
NativeCanadian asked the same here: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/09/20/we-need-69521-by-january-1-2016-to-pay-the-canadian-fatca-lawsuit-legal-bills-and-keep-our-litigation-moving-forward-il-nous-reste-69-521-a-ramasser-pour-notre-poursuite-judiciaire/comment-page-30/#comment-6909981
We should stay cognizant of what happens with this.
http://ultravires.ca/2015/10/fiat-justinia-justice-policy-under-trudeau-ii/
(Here’s what did happen under the previous government: http://www.cba.org/CBA/news/ccp/ with actions by the Canadian Bar Association.)
The Mom’s comment today poignantly illustrates what so many of us are experiencing. Dammit we have other problems that demand our attention too. Oh how I empathize with her and everyone else. It’s criminally outrageous that a foreign government is adding to our stress levels in this way. I’ve been coming to Brock since early 2012 and it played a huge role in getting us through the steps needed to set my husband free. We are so grateful for that. However, I find myself living with the uncertainty and danger that CBT/FBAR/FATCA has brought down on me, even though I am not a US citizen. (This “US person” thing is absurd — beyond all reason.) I will not comply. If my savings are destined to be stolen then they will have to put in all the effort it will take to accomplish that. I will not assist the thieves.
There is one point of hope though and that is the possibility that the litigation will be successful. Ginny Hillis has great faith in Joseph Arvay and I trust her judgment because she knows very well the world of litigation which is yet another area of inexperience for me. I can’t compose outstanding MP letters like Blaze or enlightening Forbes comments like Charl but I can donate to the litigation fund which makes me feel like I’m doing something too. (Doing nothing is not an option.) All the wrongs in this world cannot be righted by any one person or sometimes even one grand effort by many but we can pick off one wrong, work away at it and even if it is not righted we will know we tried. Yoda said, “Do. Or do not. There is no try.” That’s just a character in a fantasy. I think in the real world it would be, “Try or you imply that you accept what you know to be wrong.”
Sunny ways, my friends, sunny ways.
I sent a letter off to the Liberal MP in my former riding (Marc Garneau) inquiring on our new governmen’s plan with respect to the FATCA IGA.
My current MP here in the Okanagan is a Conservative tool.
I suspect the government has been busy getting its feet squarely on the ground in Ottawa and has been occupied with some high profile items- Syrian refugee plan, response to ISIS.
I will walk the sunny paths and show some patience.
If political means don’t work, I am happy to have a hedge winding its way down a different path– the Charter suit.