Following a suggestion made by Bubblebustin at the Media and Blog Articles thread today, here are some links to an excellent series of personal blog posts by a 23 year old woman who calls herself The Dualist:
FINDING OUT I WAS A 23 YEAR-OLD US TAX “DELINQUENT”
ASSESSING MY OPTIONS FOR ADDRESSING MY NEWLY-DISCOVERED ‘DELINQUENT’ US TAX SITUATION
As Bubblebustin describes, “A young woman discovers her US tax and filing obligations and realizes she’s damned no matter what she does. She speaks for many of us when describing her OMG moment to the current struggle whether to renounce a citizenship she still identifies with.”
The Dualist was born in the UK, moved to the US as a toddler and lived there until the age of thirteen, then moved back to the UK. Here are some excerpts from her vividly-told story:
I have introduced myself to people as half-English and half-American ever since I was old enough to respond to the question, “where are you from?”. It is almost always the first thing I say when asked to tell somebody about myself. I never reflected too deeply on what being half-English and half-American actually meant. It has just been the simplest, shortest way of alluding to certain personal circumstances, like having an American father and an English mother; as well as experiences, like moving between England and the States growing up, that have contributed to who I am.
It all began during a client dinner in the City in London one evening. I was sitting at a large table with around a dozen people. Half of them were our firms’ clients, and the other half were my colleagues. The most senior employee of the client firm present, an American, noticed my accent and asked me where I was from. I explained that I was a dual citizen, and that I had grown up in the US. After a few polite questions about where I had grown up, and when I had left the country, he abruptly asked:
“So, do you file your US taxes?”
In the period after the initial “oh my god” moment I felt seriously paranoid, scared and confused about what I should do. The whole concept of citizenship-based taxation was so bizarre to me, and its enforcement rules so disproportionate, that trying to come to terms with it all could be best described as disorienting. ‘Surely this is all just a big misunderstanding,’ I often thought, ‘or a bad dream!’
Why does the US government want to make our lives so difficult when we have done nothing wrong? Why are they burdening us to continually prove that we are innocent, and invading our privacy using third parties and foreign governments to make sure that we’re telling the IRS the truth? Why are they terrorizing us with threats of bankrupting penalties, incarceration and (very recently) passport revocation? What exactly are they hoping to achieve, when the vast majority of us do not even make enough money to owe taxes to the US?
Can they talk about the ‘land of the free’, or being ‘leaders of the free world’ with a straight face anymore?
In the EU, there are millions of these stories and not just in the UK. People forget that Germany was the biggest provider of immigrants to the US in days gone by. Go to Hamburg, there’s a whole museum dedicated to the story.
With millions in the EU affected by FATCA, just think of how much money could be collect with each person just donated only 10 Euros each?
An EU lawsuit needs to be launched.
I imagine this as a scene in a blockbuster movie that should come out…
Yes, handled with much more finesse than I was able to pull together in my own OMG moment!
Congratulations, *The Dualist*, if you may be here reading this. Your description of what so many have experienced in theirs, only the detail changed, is vivid.
Of course depending on the type of job, saying ‘yes’ I file US taxes – and doing it properly according to the IRS (and in conflict with your local laws) could mean that you’re disclosing details of confidential client trust accounts which don’t belong to you;
http://www.lawsociety.bc.ca/docs/bulletin/BB_2015-03-Fall_Part4.pdf
http://www.collinsbarrow.com/en/cbn/publications/fbar-headaches-spawn-fatca-migraine
http://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/taxes/uncle-sams-corner-max-reed-fbar
@calgary411
Or, in times past, he might have worded it just slightly differently:
“It always amazes me how many Roman Citizens don’t realize they must continue to pay tribute to the Emperor, no matter how far they may travel to the outposts of the Empire.”
Although we’re decades apart in age, the Dualist nails it for me.
A person can be six months old and be an FBAR delinquent.
Huh wait. They can be tax delinquent too. Their parents visit the US in December, give birth, open an investment account in the US for the minor, go home with the minor, and never get a green card or work in the US or anything so they don’t have to file US returns themselves, but the minor gets a big capital gain when their stock is acquired in a takeover.
The Dualist here, thanks for sharing my posts and for the feedback.
@Deckard I should point out that I was born in the UK, not the USA (not that it makes a huge difference). We moved to the US when I was a toddler and then back to the UK when I was 13.
@Badger – my job at the time didn’t involve signatory authority over any accounts (thank goodness)!
@thedualist
Thanks for the clarification – I’ve updated the introduction accordingly. Great writing, btw. You’ve really crystallized the problems that so many US persons face, especially the countless “accidental Americans.”
Dualist. Well written; thank you. You wrote that you have decided to comply. It will be interesting to see what you are obliged to do. Having been born in the UK it would be easy for you to stay out of sight. PFICs are easily dealt with by ignoring the rules and merely reporting income as it is distributed rather than as it is accrued. No information slips make it to the IRS computers. You are practically invisible.
@anyone @thedualist
The dualist said in her blog” Any children that I bear will have a right to American citizenship.”
I believe she also said she left the USA at age 13.
Can someone explain to me how her children would be tainted? I don’t keep up with the ever changing bizarre rules of that crazy nation, so forgive my ignorance. Overtime I think I do I understand,then someone makes this sort of statement which confuses me.
What I find most interesting is what factors are there where some who only lived in the US for a few years still identifies as being an American?
Half my maternal cousins still live there as did their late parents . I have about 5 memories of the five years I lived there. Yet I spent many teen years and later shopping there most Saturdays, just like kids hang out at malls nowadays. Plus we used at attend concerts, visit the zoo, museums, dinners etc there on a regular basis for some time. I still live a mile from the border.
Never felt American for a day of my life. Someone could get a PhD writing about this in my opinion.
@Duke of Devon
Are you and I the only two people here who believe in the Invisibility Cloak? I am adamant about never entering their tax system. If they don’t know about me by now, they never will.
It’s been a year since I crossed the border. Maybe I should take a test drive for a day trip and see if they arrest me. If they do, we can start another fund raiser: Free that Willful Ginny. I’d even contribute to that.
I am only a Willful Canadian. And they don’t scare me. Plus I outlived Justice Scalia so there’s something to be said for that. I get to watch the obstructionists block any confirmation hearings until their next chad count. It’s a sitcom. How anyone can be a proud American baffles me on a daily basis. Best I not share anymore about how I feel about that country. Oh wait… maybe they could take away my taint for Treason? Now’s there’s a happy thought.
Ginny Are you and I the only two people here who believe in the Invisibility Cloak?
Lots of people do. BCDoc , Portland, and dozens more on Brock as well as several million around the Globe who don’t bother filing.
Thanks DofD. I can’t keep up with who and who has not complied. Didn’t get the impression the two you named had not.
But ignore me. I am just feeling snarky tonight. It bothers me so much to read the hoops people have to go through and endure and worry about and have their lives turned upside down to the point of suicide as we have recently read, to protect themselves and their loved ones from the Land of the Free. It’s criminal, inhumane, sadistic and against every human rights code the world over.
And I wish the best outcome for the dualist.
As Gwen would say: this makes me so mad!
We MUST get to court sooner than later. With witnesses. Please. Too much harm is being incurred by so many on a daily basis. And we are reading about just the tip of the stories. We know who is profiting and it is not us.
The history books will show this has been one of the most shameful and egregious actions of the USA taken again its own as well as an undeclared war against other nations and their sovereignty.
Because their law is supposed to reign supreme? Everywhere?
Let’s get to court.
Some day I’ll tell you how I really feel (:-
https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-parents
Citizenship at Birth for Children Born Outside the U.S. and its Territories
*the dualist*, to not have US-tainted children, must practice USC avoidance with proper family planning. FOREWARNED IS FOREARMED re future children not being US-tainted if the mom were *the dualist*,
If *the dualist* remains a US citizen and marries another US citizen…
If *the dualist* were the only US-tainted parent…
… *the dualist* children could not gain US citizenship from if she were the only parent with US taint in this scenario as *the dualist* did not reside in the US after her 14th birthday.
In general, a Child Born Outside the U.S. is a Citizen at Birth when the Child’s Parents Are Not Married to each other at the Time of Birth
IF… The genetic or non-genetic gestational legal mother is a U.S. citizen at the time of birth, and the birth date is after December 23, 1952
AND…The mother had previously been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of at least one year.
…and best to read and understand the remainder of the entries as well.
As John Richardson says…the first thing any of us must do (in the present) before jumping into some US tax compliance program is to DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT WE REALLY ARE U.S. CITIZENS.
For future planning, if the invisibility cloak is not enough for us, it is important for any of us to know the U.S. citizenship rules should we not wish to taint our children with what many of us have either been tainted with or have, in ignorance, tainted our already born children with.
If you think this is absurd, please help make sure the Canadian litigation is funded and we have all the Witnesses we need to come forward and help fight this unjust treatment. One way or another we have to ensure an end to the collateral damage caused by US citizenship-based taxation for those outside the U.S.
Look at that last one again.
“In general, a Child Born Outside the U.S. is a Citizen at Birth when the Child’s Parents Are Not Married to each other at the Time of Birth…IF
The genetic or non-genetic gestational legal mother is a U.S. citizen at the time of birth, and the birth date is after December 23, 1952
AND…
The mother had previously been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of at least one year.”
There’s no age requirement on that. The continuous presence could have been from age 3.728 to age 4.728.
US or one of its outlying possessions … OK, one year moving around Oregon, Idaho, and Arizona, OK. One year moving around Oregon, Hawaii, and Arizona, probably not because of the time spent over international waters. One year moving around Oregon, Puerto Rico, and Guam, if the international waters don’t get you then the count of outlying possessions will. Where does DC count in this one?
@thedualist,
Glad to hear that co-signatory powers over non-personal work accts isn’t an additional part of your problem. It is a very very big problem for some – like lawyers, with confidential client trust accts, or in government or community programs or other settings where staff have to sign for and handle grants, or for employee roles where staff have co-signatory powers on workplace accts as part of their duties. Or if we want to contribute to our local community via volunteer positions – like church treasurer or local Little League fundraiser.
I was unknowingly in one of those categories in the sufficiently distant past, but thankfully not recent enough to be a relevant part of my OMG moment. Luckily, in the case of those non-personal local accounts, the absurdity of the US extraterritorial FBAR as applied to Canadian federal and provincial funded non-personal accounts was mitigated by the statute of limitations.
Little did I or the Queen of England and Canada, who issued the funding know that the fairly meagre support our sovereign granted to our little local non-profit community good works were categorized by the US Treasury and FINANCIAL CRIMES Enforcement Network as equivalent to the hoards of organized crime syndicates, drug lords and terrorfunders – SOLELY on the basis of my US birthplace several decades before.
I made the decision to relinquish partly on the basis that I did not want anything to do with a country or government who treated my legal local accts and that of my potential employers and others as if I were Al Capone – on the flimsy pretext that US parentage or US birthplace made me a criminal in waiting who had to prove my innocence every year for the rest of my life.
@badger
I made the decision to relinquish partly on the basis that I did not want anything to do with a country or government who treated my legal local accts and that of my potential employers and others as if I were Al Capone – on the flimsy pretext that US parentage or US birthplace made me a criminal in waiting who had to prove my innocence every year for the rest of my life.
++==
Yes exactly. I recently had to inform the group I am currently working with to help the refugees ( you know, the ones the US didn’t offer sanctuary to) in my town settle in, that I couldn’t be a signatory to any of the Canadian grants- yes Canadian tax payer funded government grants- we have been allocated because I’d be tainting the whole damn country. Imagine having Canadian government grant monies being considered being reportable to Financial Crimes Network. Believe me I was tempted for five seconds.
And I did forget about passing on taint if the dualist married another American. I remember a previous report of a man saying he wished he had never married his american partner! That’s what this has come to.
@Calgary411 said it better and more calmly than I and it bears repeating:
As John Richardson says…the first thing any of us must do (in the present) before jumping into some US tax compliance program is to DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT WE REALLY ARE U.S. CITIZENS.
If you think this is absurd, please help make sure the Canadian litigation is funded and we have all the Witnesses we need to come forward and help fight this unjust treatment. One way or another we have to ensure an end to the collateral damage caused by US citizenship-based taxation for those outside the U.S.
++++
I am just as my wits end tonight. Every OMG story is as terrible or worse than the last and there are far far too many from so many individuals of many countries.
How many more can we all bear to read? I am well past my limit. Lives are being disrupted, people are losing their life savings, bank accounts being closed etc. families torn apart. People contemplating the worse case scenarios.
John Richardson will again be in Europe at his own cost presenting his talk soon and there will even more OMG moments, and on the one hand that’s necessary as we do need to keep getting the word out so people are informed.
There have been no countries that have managed as Jim Jatras pointed out willing to band together to resist this imperialism.
So we are where we are. Law suits in Canada, the US and Israel. From there others in other countries can go forward.
We just need a little more funding and some willing witnesses and I know we can get there.
@Canadian Ginny,
Some of us who fail to wear the cloak of invisibility use it as an opportunity to provide State and Treasury with pissy letters that accompany forms.
And enjoy it. 😀
After a number of years, I’m STILL waiting for some love note from the IRS so that I may reciprocate with a love note of my own.
@Canadian Ginny, re;
“..Imagine having Canadian government grant monies being considered being reportable to Financial Crimes Network….”…
Yes, and what if the UStaintedCanadian is a signatory or co-signatory on accts belonging to vulnerable clients or other individuals?
Our organization had to be audited annually and make the results public in accordance with Canadian law. It would probably have cost me my job if I had known about FBAR then, and had had to ask our board to allow me to report on our accts to FINCEN. What organization would hire me if I had known then about FBAR and had to tell them about what I would as a co-signatory be required by the US to file regarding their Canadian organization’s accts if they were to give me the job. Ironically, so many years later, I recall working with several duals, some of whom also had similar cosignatory roles, or even were Treasurers, Board members or routinely handled our banking and accounting.
How many Canadians with the USP burden are working in roles in Canadian banks, corporations, government departments and entities? How many handle trust accts, or are executors or have POA? How many handle the income of incompetent and vulnerable clients – some of whom will also be Canadians born dual? Wouldn’t that conflict with their legal and fiduciary duties? And the oaths and duties that people in public and government service must swear to uphold? I doubt that the federal government or the provinces or any other level of government or public institution would exempt an individual from their duties or allow the accts under their care to be reported to a foreign government, much less FINCEN. I am sure that would conflict with several Canadian laws.
Dualist –
You are a paragon of reason with outstanding instincts.
The OMG do-you-file question that you faced down sounds (1) rude beyond belief (2) abusively sexist.
Back in the 1980s I asked a Brit who was in Germany in 1939 what it was like and will never forget the answer. Nobody talked about “it” in groups — only one-on-one with trusted persons. (This is a tale to instruct OMG inducers.)
Best guess from direct experience — you are functionally destined to a lifetime of half & half whatever you do. The logical form of my own moniker is … dualist.
@Dualist
There is an information session in London on 29 February which you may find helpful. You can find details here: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/information-sessions/
It is still illogical and unjust to me that people must demonstrate that the FATCA IGA has demonstrably harmed them when it is obvious that FATCA by its very nature – ex. the FATCA withholding and reporting to the IRS/US Treasury was meant to cause harm. The US has been very clear about the threat it poses to those it discovers who are not compliant as well as to Canadian FIs and many NON-FIs. It has deliberately uttered its threats publicly against those who do not comply with FATCA, extraterritorial CBT including all the many information forms and FBAR. Those who are recalcitrant and refuse to prove that they are not USPs if the Banksters ask, will have their info turned over by the CRA to the IRS. The CRA has been given the power to levy a $100 fine on those affected, for not providing US tax numbers on request. Canada has agreed to the IGA knowing what the intent of FATCA is, and that harm to individuals will result, in exchange from sparing the Banksters from harm, additional costs, and liability.
Clearly the Canadian government knows and has acknowledged that harm will result to those affected. They chose to shift the harm of cost onto every Canadian taxpayer and accountholder who has to pay to implement FATCA, and the harm of outing to an aggressive foreign government all Canadian citizen and resident USPs – those that have had their info turned over already, as well as those who have yet to be outed.
When an individual utters threats of harm, don’t those threats constitute harm and assault under the law? The US means to harm those it discovers via the FATCA IGA. The Canadian government, the CRA and the Banksters are willful accessories to the assault.
The Liberals are helping the US to harm Canadians that they owe a duty of care to if they do not cease defending against the ADCS lawsuit. They make a clearly hypocritical mockery of what they are on Hansard record of having said. For example, Liberal MP Emmanuel Dubourg, who was appointed “Parliamentary Secretary for National Revenue has an MBA, is an accountant, was a university and CGEP teacher and worked for CRA for 20 years. He made strong comments against FATCA and wrote an article An Attack on Our Privacy for National Post… ” http://maplesandbox.ca/2015/dear-mr-dubourg-stop-cra-from-fatca-dirty-work/
See what Liberal Dubourg said;
“..We must deny the Conservatives permission to allow the transmission of personal information without the authorization of a judge, under the pretense of combating tax evasion. Instead, the government should focus its energies in countering the scourge of tax havens, where they could recover billions of dollars…”
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/emmanuel-dubourg-an-attack-on-our-privacy
and
” …… We will start with FATCA. We know that FATCA is an acronym that refers to an American law. An agreement that has been made with the Minister of Finance affects Canadians who are dual nationals, and that affects about a million people.
Under that agreement, Canadian banks will now give information about those people to the Canada Revenue Agency, and that agency will do the dirty work of transmitting the information to the IRS, the American counterpart of the Canada Revenue Agency. This is what was recently signed. We are truly appalled by it, because doing this kind of thing to assist the Americans is not appropriate.” https://openparliament.ca/debates/2014/6/11/emmanuel-dubourg-2/
and,
“..The Canada Revenue Agency will give the information of taxpayers who have dual citizenship to the IRS in the United States. That is not an information exchange. We do the work for the Americans. I should also mention to the honourable member that the Canada Revenue Agency already exchanges information with other countries….”
https://openparliament.ca/debates/2014/6/11/emmanuel-dubourg-3/
IRS Taxpayer Advocate comments on FATCA, FBAR, and the OVDI/P;
“..Olson said. “So you’re really looking at this and thinking, why are we doing this to folks? Why are we tormenting them in this way?”…”….
October 8, 2014
‘FATCA ‘Tormenting’ Taxpayers, Olson Says’
by William Hoffman
http://www.taxanalysts.com/www/features.nsf/Articles/FD2860D17810639485257D6B0052AC9C?OpenDocument
When I had my OMG moment my first reaction was “Why the hell has nobody informed me about this before?!”
The implications of not having been informed in time are disastrous. When you find out by a third party (the bank in many cases?) it is like having a huge sack of ********** (you choose the none) handed over to you. A wet sack of full of incomprehensible IRS instructions, PFIC rules, 10 000 dollar penalties, FBARs, accountant fees, anxiety, dread, fear, panic, sleepless nights etc.
Thank you USG for not informing us in time. This failure to inform is a huge evasion of responsibility. I think this is what makes me the most angry and upset. The main reason why I want to renounce. The USG should be ashamed of itself for this – not us.
Some officials say that the USG has already provided the information in our passports. Well that may be true for people with new passports. I haven’t renewed mine in years and there is no information in it to be found about any tax obligations.
If the USG wants us contribute as citizens (which I think many would like to deep down if the system had been just and fair), make it possible to do so: -Inform us in time and make it possible to enter the system without fear. -Remove the unfairness factor. -Make it possible to comprehend the forms and instructions. Make them user friendly. -Remove the need to hire expensive lawyers and accountants. -Provide tax help and service at the embassy. -Press the pause button, thinks things over (Why are people renouncing? Why are people not filing? How can we make this doable?) and get things right.
A last thought: Once they have us on their radar, why can’t they just have our local tax agencies provide them with the information they need (most of us are compliant in our home countries as it is easy to be that). Why does it have to be so complicated?
I so appreciate and identify with all the experiences related on your pages. They have given me comfort if only to know I am not alone. My OMG moment came last year when the bank asked me to fill out a form that definitely looked like an IRS form. I live in a small town and at seeing my obvious distress, my “friend” at the bank said she’d put the paper at the bottom of her pile while I figured out what to do. I have lived in Chile for almost 35 years and am a law abiding chilean taxpayer. I had no idea I should have been declaring to the IRS too. I am getting my tax situation into compliance so I can get out of this ridiculously abusive system.
I just applied for Chilean citizenship and plan to make an appointment at the consulate as soon as I get it.
I have obsessed about this since that day in the bank and relinquishment is, in my mind, the only way I will regain peace.