Democrat Candidates have little to offer #Americansabroad there will still be #FATCA #FBAR #CBT taxes – Let Us Go! https://t.co/voSFLVhznq
— Patricia Moon (@nobledreamer16) February 4, 2016
Over the past few years the sheet distributed by the Obama 2008 team has been discussed here with regard to Supporting Americans Abroad (or rather, how it did not support them). Yesterday, Democrats Abroad released a set of questions and answers put to their Presidential Candidates. I thought it might be interesting to review what Mr. Obama said/did while contemplating whether there would be any improvement in the situation for expats based upon the statements of Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Sanders.
Mr. Obama
What He Said: Strengthen Economic Security for Americans Abroad
…he will work with Americans abroad to identify and understand problems they may face as a result of U.S. government policies.
What He Delivered: Closure of Bank Accounts; Inability to obtain/renew mortgages
What He Said: Census of Americans Abroad
What He Delivered: Nada
What He Said: Concerns of Americans Living Abroad
As president, Obama will work to establish a direct dialogue with Americans abroad.
What He Delivered: we are “Tax Cheats” “Traitors” “Don’t Pay Our Fair Share” oh, and not to forget, we must report our everyday bank accounts to FINCEN and endure considerable terror tactics used to try and get us to enter “amnesty” programs designed for criminals
What He Said: Other Governmental Services and Benefits
…..ensure that U.S. State Department staff members have proper training to assist Americans abroad in determining their various rights and responsibilities as American citizens
What He Delivered: OVDP/OVDI FATCA Form 8938 Renunciation Fee Raised 422%
So with those thoughts in mind, here are the questions that Democrats Abroad prepared and presented to Mrs. Clinton, Mr. Sanders and a Mr.Rocky De La Fuente.
FATCA: Would you support the FATCA “Same Country Safe Harbor” for Americans abroad, the regulatory reform that Democrats Abroad recommends for fixing FATCA’s problems but retaining its strength?
RBT: Would you support the replacement of the current system of taxing overseas Americans, known as citizenship-based taxation, with a system of residence-based taxation?
FBAR: Would you support reforms to FBAR regulations to address these concerns and inequities?
Medicare portability: Would you support an amendment to the Medicare law permitting American citizens to use Medicare benefits to pay for health care in approved medical facilities located outside the USA?
HR-3078: Would you support the establishment of a Commission on Americans Abroad to study and propose remedies to U.S. policies that harm or unfairly burden Americans living outside the U.S. (as provided for in House bill HR-3078)?
Windfall Eliminations Provision “WEP”: Would you support the examination of the WEP and its impact on U.S. citizens abroad to establish a remedy that preserves the social security benefits fairly earned by Americans abroad through their U.S. working life?
FAST Act passport revocation: Would you support, as part of the implementation of the 2015 FAST Act, these requests aimed at preserving the security of Americans abroad and their families?
Interesting @Demsabroad "reach out" shows #Americansabroad should not support Hilary Clinton – See here: https://t.co/1POSb7PscI
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) February 3, 2016
Mrs. Clinton:
On FATCA “Same Country Safe Harbor”
harder to open a bank account, harder to save for retirement, and harder to get a mortgage. I know that the vast majority of Americans living abroad are paying their fair share,
On RBT
I believe that we need a broad discussion about reforming our tax code to cut taxes for hard-working, middle class American families living both here and abroad….making sure that the wealthiest Americans can’t move overseas to avoid paying taxes…. a complicated issue and I will work with Americans living abroad and members of Congress to cut taxes
On reform to FBAR
to examine filing requirements with the aim of avoiding redundancies and minimizing unnecessary paperwork and confusion.
On HR 3078
The government…crafts solutions that are executable at home but nearly impossible to implement overseas other than at an enormous cost to our citizens living abroad
On FAST Act passport revocation
Every American should pay what they owe under our tax laws. …… I will ensure that Americans receive timely and accurate information about their tax responsibilities and are given ample opportunity to remedy or resolve any related issues, within a reasonable timeframe, before a passport is revoked due to a tax delinquency.
I am rather certain Mrs. Clinton does not really have a grip on the situation of expats. This is difficult to fathom since the largest number of Americans in history have renounced under her watch at the State Dept. Her comments in response to Safe Harbour show no familiarity with what it is. “Harder” to deal with the effects of FATCA? How about those who simply can’t get accounts difficult or have had them closed? And while a lovely sentiment, where she gets the idea that the vast majority of Americans abroad even know about their tax obligations, never mind are actually paying them, is a mystery to me. “Reforming our tax code to….cut taxes…cut taxes….” does not address RBT. No one needs to have foreign taxes cut if RBT were adopted. The comments about FBAR reform are moot. And she better be careful about that last promise………anyone care to count the number of times she uses the words “cut taxes?”
Mr. Sanders:
On Safe Harbour:
permit the U.S. Treasury to focus on curbing tax avoidance by Americans living inside the United States who move their money to offshore tax havens to avoid paying taxes.On RBT:
deserves serious consideration… we can provide tax relief to middle-class families living overseas..On FBAR reform:
shows he is familiar with issues but his comments do not indicate any real relief from FBAR requirements
HR-3078
examine the impact of federal financial reporting requirements, the ability to vote in U.S. elections, and access to federal programs like Social Security and Medicare for Americans living abroad.on FAST Act:
have access to information on tax debts and proper notice before the IRS requests that the State Department revoke or deny the renewal of the passports of U.S. citizens.
Mr. Sanders seems to be somewhat more aware, possibly open to somewhat more relaxed conditions but I see nothing to indicate strong support for anything that would actually change this situation. IOW, neither have any meaningful platform to address our issues. Then again, would these have been your questions of choice? What about simply releasing Accidental Americans from these ridiculous “requirements? What about rectifying the onerous treatment of those minnows who entered the OVDI programs? What about dealing with the lack of reciprocity in the IGA’s? What about not taxing our tax-deferred savings plans in our countries of residence? How about the immorality of imposing FATCA and its costs completely on other countries? How about honoring the relinquishments of those you told were no longer citizens? How about getting your noses out of our “alien” spouses’ financial information? How about letting children born abroad decide for themselves if they want to be Americans? and on and on and on………..
@Barbara
NP…
Obviously Rand was my choice also. I didn’t think he had much chance though. I liked his father and he seems to have done better in the past. Long term I think libertarians will get stronger as the young turn away from social conservatism. I only case about fiscal conservatism myself.
While I have known for a long time the Democrates want to screw me it only recently I started to think the republicans won’t help either. Ted Cruz didn’t know the issues when asked in the conference call.
I am just waiting to see who emerges before trying to find out all their positions. God help me if Trump is the nominee.
This is part of the reason I quit working to do my own thing. I plan to empty my foreign pensions in 4 years and look ‘normal’. this is the foreign home lander’s ‘expatriation’. Look normal so to screw you they have to screw a lot of other people.
Probably a good idea to not mention the 1868 Expatriation Act. If the existence of that law should happen to come to the attention of some members of Congress, they will surely move to eliminate that “loophole” ASAP. (As in we can’t have the slaves wandering off the plantation without permission now, can we?)
The single best defense against this modern day US slavery is obtaining another citizenship.
I think USCA has an excellent point that sounds “fresh, new, invigorating….
Take it one step further. You haven’t effectively been a member of the club for decades. There really (at this point anyway) is only one of those rules you can use and it will require putting oneself and one’s family at financial risk, strain and possible ruin. Can the club reasonably expect to extract this level of payment from someone not using the club’s facilities, from someone who wishes to simply leave? Or can one have an equal expectation of sacrifice of what is involved in membership, from the club itself? The effect of club policy on the member is way out of proportion in terms of the effect to the club of the member leaving. In real life, a negotiation of terms would be required to settle. That would require a balancing of the issues. A solution that would require adjustment from both parties. No one stays at the table when they aren’t getting anything…
I’m content to NOT have the option of voting in a USA election any more. No choices really. God help America if Trump is nominated and elected. I don’t think any mercy for expats can be expected from Clinton, Sanders, Trump or Cruz.
A second citizenship and dumping US citizenship, if one is able, seems to be the best option. Along with keeping the lawsuit going.
USA proudly hangs on to their exceptional policies for membership in an elitist old boys’ club. Sheer absurdity, the choice, if you don’t want to return to *the Homeland*…
@Calgary 411
Speaking of exceptional, this news article from the BBC filed yesterday. Almost 700 comments so far.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35438548
“For these are times when “Only in America” is increasingly used as a term of derision, and “American exceptionalism” sounds like an empty boast.”
It won’t matter which party wins the election. They have both had a chance to repeal the double Marxist Taxation Law and haven’t done so. The republicans have stayed quiet while adding thousands of pages to the tax code and the only candidate who was for total repeal, Mike Huckabee, has bailed for lack of support.
They have all advocated jiggering the brackets, so marxism is alive and well right here in the USA. A massive letter writing campaign where the politicians think they may loose their jobs would be the only way to get the tax code repealed and the FairTax passed.
Rocky de la Fuente said…
“As Democrats Abroad so cleverly implies, unless the United States aspires to become the next Eritrea,…”
But the United States is already another Eritrea. No double taxation, no passport. Sounds eerily familiar…
Ah, but Eritreans have it so much better. Just pay a simple 2% of your income. No FBARs, no PFICs, no 8938s, no foreign trust issues, no capital gains when you sell your home, no phantom currency gains, no complicated foreign income exclusions, no foreign tax credits, and best of all, no enforcement because they have no FATCA and no worldwide clout. In short, pay the 2% and skip all the life control crap.
Eritreans can choose to comply or not. (However the Eritrean government may penalize your homeland relatives if you don’t comply.) Come to think of it, the US also does exactly that via the covered expatriate rules if you happen to have a US heir.
Congress should send a delegation to study the Eritrean way. Talk about an enlightened society.
@Maz57
How is the Eritrea government exempt from trying to control the lives of its diaspora, when it uses threats against its citizens and their families to aid their enforcement efforts? Maybe I don’t fully understand the term “life control”. As a Canadian living in Canada, I’m subjected to “life control” by the Canadian government, which I for the most part do voluntarily because I live here. Maybe it’s just a matter of degree. I guess what makes one good or bad depends on the value one derives from the degree of control one’s subjected to – or acquiesces to.
If you vote in usa election it could be a problem
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/nhncdrprtng/gdnc-eng.html
section 8.28
” if a financial institution knows that the individual voted in an U.S. election or travelled from Canada to a country (other than the U.S.) under a U.S. passport after the date the account holder claims to have relinquished U.S. citizenship, the financial institution does not have to accept the explanation.”
If you want I have a suggestion to the government that may be able to prevent Canadian company seeing you on USA voting list?
I also was rooting for Rand Paul, but understandably, he is now focussed on his senate seat. If there is a Republican president, Paul might have some influence on him with regards to FATCA, but it would depend on the president.
I can see why people find Ted Cruz irritating, but to his credit, he is promoting a flat tax and a plan that will abolish the present tax code, and the IRS regime. Though he plans to demolish ISIS, he would not intervene with Russia and is not otherwise hawkish. He also is against all the spying on the American people.
Trump wants to work with Russia–not against Russia–in taking out ISIS. Otherwise, is hard to tell what global conflicts he would enter into.
Google “neocon”, though, and Rubio’s name will pop up. He is a staunch neocon war hawk and he wants to make the US war machine ever stronger and stronger. Why he wants to attack Russia/Assad AND ISIS (both sides) makes no sense to me. He also thinks the gov’t should spy on Americans to make the country safer. He sees Snowden as a huge traitor (unlike Cruz).
Clinton, however, is MUCH worse than the GOP neocons are. She is a neocon who is responsible for a lot of the fall-out and instability in the Middle East and North Africa. She should’ve at least looked after the men who died in Libya; it should not have happened. They should’ve been in a secure location with the Special Ops, but she waived that restriction, and failed to pull them out of the country like other embassies were doing, and then, she wouldn’t even give them the security they needed! Sean Smith’s mother is still waiting for Hillary Clinton to call her and tell her what happened. All she was given was a lie, so she calls her a liar! Rand Paul has a scathing commentary on Hillary Clinton on that score. She also failed to keep the classified information secure that was a major part of her job. She is under FBI investigation for that, and if there is any justice in the world, she will go to jail. With her track record, she has no business trying to be the president and the commander-in-chief. She sets a terrible example of what NOT to do. That is not all; she pretends to care about women’s rights, but she was the Enabler-in-Chief of her husband’s dirty work, which has been exposed in the book, The Clintons’ War on Women. She and her husband have gotten rich off their charity foundation. She is known for cronyism and corruption, for example, for firing people in the White House (like travel agents) to put in her buddies. She makes Harper look squeaky clean!
If the choice ends up being Clinton and Rubio, unfortunately, the country won’t have much choice between those two because they have similar (hawkish) military policies, endorse spying and government intrusion, and giving the government more control and power! I can’t see either of them getting rid of FBARs and allowing the US to spy on bank accounts.
@George III, that Section 8.28 find……
I bow humbly before ye, that is an incredible find for many reasons.
@Calgary, some business first. The link that our friend George III found has a pdf with it dated August 28, 2015. Please download and place the pdf in the Brockives.
Why is this a treasure chest?
1. Its the first major implementation document and I am sure it will provide nuggets for Arvey If he has not sighted he should be given a copy.
2. Reasonable explanation includes “waiting to attend an appointment with a U.S. consular office to apply for a CLN in respect of a relinquishing act performed after June 3, 2004.”
3. The passport item discovered is fascinating; “Financial institutions should not accept as reasonable any explanation which is unlikely or ambiguous in light of an account holder’s actions. For example, if a financial institution knows that the individual voted in an U.S. election or travelled from Canada to a country (other than the U.S.) under a U.S. passport after the date the account holder claims to have relinquished U.S. citizenship, the financial institution does not have to accept the explanation.”
What does this indicate in this Official guidance from the Government of Canada?
It appears that Canada recognizes what I term the “@Calgary411 Argument.” We know C411 relinquished but one day she applied for a US “Travel Document” after being bullied/coerced by a US Immigration person.
Notice in this guidance how the Canadian Government makes special mention and specifically distinguishes between traveling to the US on a US Passport vs traveling to another country on a US Passport.
This seems to indicate with respect to the guidance from Canada that a relinquishing act (especially before 2004), where an individual has solely a US “Travel Document” to visit the US does not in the eyes of the Canadian Government defeat the prior relinquishment.
Now we do know that if said person applied for a CLN that they would likely in fact be denied by State.
But this does show some wiggle room in official Canadian documents that may be useful to someone.
One more item per the above that can be found in 8.23 which I believe to be important for Arvey and the litigation;
“(Note: Subsection 265(5) of the ITA does not require a financial institution to make any attempt to cure U.S. indicia that is the identification of the account holder as a U.S. resident or a U.S. citizen.)”
I believe this to be extremely important as a Judge should be appalled. What this means is that if a Canadian Citizen (Pure Blood not Mugle) is incorrectly tainted by US Indica that their private information will be handed over to a foreign government without even their knowledge, they have no means to stop the transfer of information because they have no knowledge and the FI is under ZERO lawful obligation to attempt to correct the indica.
IF handing over private financial information of Pure Blood Canadians to a FOREIGN GOVERNMENT with no recourse to correct and prevent is OK with your Charter then we need to have a Charter burning party.
———-
Lastly…….as George III indicated……for those that have any desire to check out of Hotel California…..this guidance/find is a perfect reason why you should NOT vote in the USA. It will make no difference and could harm you or your loved ones.
Wow just had a flashback to the late 60s when people were starting to say; Smoking can be dangerous to your health and your loved ones. I just wrote above; Expat voting in the US can be dangerous to your health and your loved ones.
A very sad day for the country I left that I do still love.
Some more thoughts on the above….
Again the era of the expat American is finished, done, kaput. When I first realized that sometime ago, I shed a tear but its the truth.
If you are solely an expat then your priority is to get another citizenship if you do not have one. That new citizenship is a relinquishing act.
If you already have alternative citizenship, you need to get a Government job to reliquish!
If you have the dollars to buy a CLN then you likely should buy it.
If you do not have the cash, you need to live your life as a NON USC!!!! That means don’t ask don’t tell.
At such time if and when you get ratted out….then the Reasonable explanation includes “waiting to attend an appointment with a U.S. consular office to apply for a CLN in respect of a relinquishing act performed after June 3, 2004.” So you schedule the appointment a year off, get the bank off your back and save your money.
@George
As I said a long while ago – we are the last generation of American emigrants who believed, however erroneously, we were free to leave the US.
Thanks to *Gorege III*:
CRA Guidance on enhanced financial accounts information reporting – Part XVIII of the Income Tax Act, August 28, 2015
Section 8.28
and, from @George:
@Bubbles, “we are the last generation of American emigrants who believed, however erroneously, we were free to leave the US.”
The truth that you spoke sent a chill through my body.
This time period will be noted in the history, it will be a small footnote but a sad footnote.
@Steven says
Yes, although I am not optimistic. The U.S. government really isn’t working well right now at all. Look at how they didn’t even manage the really tiny reform of not taxing a very narrowly defined group of accidental citizens.
@Bubblebustin
Given his biography, Rocky might mean it. I have no idea what I am going to do in the general election. Maybe Libertarian Party.
The criticisms that are being made about Rubio are quite realistic, unfortunately. Steven Walt has a really balanced article in Foreign Policy “The Big 5 and the Sad State of Foreign Policy 2016” and he is scathing on Rubio: “a Rubio presidency would confirm that the United States has learned precisely nothing from its tragic experiment with neoconservatism. If that’s where we end up this November, we’ll deserve whatever punishment history decides to dish out.” Not that he likes Hillary (Hawk using an out-of-date playbook that increasingly doesn’t work and has shown poor judgement), Trump (crude xenophobe and high-risk gambler), Cruz (“bull who carries his own china [shop] with him”) or Bernie (what foreign policy?). Cruz can be a hawk, if that is what the public wants : he famously promised to carpet bomb ISIS so much that the desert might turn to glass. Usually the candidates get a bit less wacky in the summer, but Americans are in a really angry mood, particularly the white, middle-aged, middle class ones. Ironically, one of the things that is making them unhappy is the difficulty of saving for retirement!
@George
This isn’t the first time that the U.S. has squeezed expats. Similar things happened between 1914 to 1926 and 1970-1980. Actually, expats often end up double squeezed: squeezed by country of residence and squeezed by U.S. Happens every time the wheels fall the global economy.
@Bubblebustin: “How is the Eritrea government exempt from trying to control the lives of its diaspora, when it uses threats against its citizens and their families to aid their enforcement efforts?”
What I was referring to was the fact that unlike the US the Eritrean government couldn’t care less what foreign accounts Eritrean expats have, where they are located, whether they are joint or not, what types of investments they might hold, or any of the other insane reporting obligations that US expats suffer. (Plus they don’t have a Financial Crimes Enforcement Network.) The Eritrean expat return is a simple 2 page “how much did you make last year, send us 2% of it”. If you send them the 2%, they are happy. The IRS is never happy.
Of course we all agree CBT is just plain wrong, all the more so when it involves threats of harm to one’s relatives back home. Eritrea is a shit hole with a slightly more enlightened form of CBT (at least the tax return part) compared to US CBT. I was being totally sarcastic. I don’t like either country.
@maz57
Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that you approve of Eritrea. I guess what I was trying to say is that every country exerts some degree of life control over its citizens, to which its citizen volunteer in varying degrees. Some call it a social contract. On one end of the scale you have what many of us call “homelanders abroad” who say they are fine with the US continuing to tax them no matter where they live. My point is, we’re all willing to accept some degree of “life control”, so “life control” is not the issue for me. I prefer to frame it as a migration issue, and how CBT is an impermeable barrier to a healthy functioning democracy.
@George
It’s a damn shame that the US continues to shoot itself in its foot!
@ maz57 & bubblebustin
You might disapprove of Eritrea a bit less if you could take a look at it from the eyes of a journalist who has visited that little nation in Africa and appreciates its spirit.
http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/12/eritreas-struggle-for-independence/
http://andrevltchek.weebly.com/eritrea-photo-special.html
The 2% diaspora tax is used for rebuilding Eritrea after its 30 year war for independence. Some overseas Eritreans pay this tax willingly and some do not. If you think of US CBT as a way to pay for America’s wars then it’s no wonder the tax/penalty burden on overseas Americans far exceeds a simple 2%. America’s war bills are almost limitless, never ending.
calgary411
Bank may also use American voter list to determine American.
I have a suggestion how to approach the Canadian government to prevent Bank using on line voting list.
I have other suggestion as well. If the board is interested please tell me and I will tell you about it?
Any Canadian government will do as as little as possible to satisfy Obama. They just do no want the Canadian economy destroyed.
Have someone google their name and see what happens
I also feel that I was the one of the extremely few person who read the various agreement.
Also remember I told you that none of the big 3 parties (include BQ) are going to kill the deal.
They say things when they are not in power that they are not going to live up to if they win election.