This is reposted from the RenouceUScitizenship blog. Since Ted Cruz had the “temerity” to have born outside the Homeland, Donald Trump has called his U.S. citizenship into question (those of you who were NOT born in the United States would find this debate to be interesting). This raises the question of how “citizenship” should be related to the political process in general.
If Senator Cruz were declared ineligible to run for President, he might say:
“It’s unjust. It’s inhumane. I didn’t choose where I was born!”
Well Ted, that’s too bad. Get with the program. We aren’t talking about justice. We are talking about America.
To what degree should citizenship matter at all? Many readers of this blog are aware of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. S. 3 of that Charter makes a clear statement of the importance of the right to participate in the political process. It also links citizenship to that right.
Democratic rights of citizens
3. Every citizen of Canada has the right to vote in an election of members of the House of Commons or of a legislative assembly and to be qualified for membership therein.
What about the United States?
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In the finest of American traditions and mythology:
Samuel Adams suggested that "taxation without representation" was a form of slavery." That was then. This is now. https://t.co/E2lWfF6wxh
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) January 11, 2016
The summary statement of the Samuel Adams instructions, written to the representatives of the Massachusetts House, approved May 24, 1764:
“If Taxes are laid upon us in any shape without our having a legal Representation where they are laid, are we not reduced from the Character of free Subjects to the miserable State of tributary Slaves?”
But yet,
Article implies that 13 states will NOT allow #Americansabroad who were born abroad to vote. But, they must file tax https://t.co/vSK2fCR2Ih
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) January 11, 2016
Never resided in the U.S.? As of this writing, 37 states* allow U.S. citizens, 18 years or older, who were born abroad, but have never resided in the United States to be eligible to vote absentee. Voting address in the United States will be the last U.S. residence of a U.S. citizen parent. States vary in their voter registration identification requirements, however, most commonly you can use either: 1) the last 4 digits of your Social Security Number (SSN); or 2) a valid state driver’s license.
*Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Colombia, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Vermont, Virginia, Washington (State), West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.
Voting may or may not be based on citizenship …
For example:
- The Government of Canada has tried to prevent certain Canadian citizens from voting if they live outside of Canada.
- An issue in certain Municipal Elections (example Toronto) has been whether non-citizens should have the right to vote.
What does citizenship have to do with it anyway?
It appears to be neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for voting.
The question …
Given that there is NO PRESUMPTIVE connection between citizenship and voting rights, perhaps the United States should consider/reconsider what the right to vote should be based on. We know that U.S. citizenship is about and ONLY about taxation. That’s why U.S. citizenship is properly understood to be:
“Taxation Based Citizenship”
Should the right to vote in the United States be based on whether you file and pay U.S. taxes?
Two polls – Two different questions
Poll 1 – Filing U.S. taxes as a NECESSARY condition for voting
Poll 2 – Filing U.S. taxes as a SUFFICIENT condition for voting
I will take this another step further.
I have always felt that the law should have been kept in which voting in a foreign election was an expatriating act and think we need to lobby to bring that one back!!
But in a new twist, forget about denying a US Passport to an overseas “dual citizen if you owe $$$$ to the USG, lets make it an expatriating act!
@George
The law that made voting an expatriating act was struck down by the Supreme Court of the United States in the case of Afroyim v. Rusk:
https://scholar.google.ca/scholar_case?case=2521246303796542623&q=afroyim+v.+rusk&hl=en&as_sdt=2006&as_vis=1
Justice Black devotes a good part of the decision talking about the meaning of citizenship, etc.
I invite you to read Justice Black’s decision and offer your thoughts.
Should the failure to file an FBAR be an expatriating act?
I think George meant that owing (and not paying) money to the USG as a dual citizen would be an expatriating act. Am I right, George? Doesn’t sound like a bad idea! đ
@USCA, @MZNM, yes thats what I meant and I am fully aware of the SCOTUS decision. My train of thought is based on the fact that CBT has been with us all along BUT at the same time it was very easy to get ready of the citizenship…and that was good.
The problem developed when CBT remained and actually tightened up BUT getting rid of citizenship became harder especially when the Court made it harder to get rid thinking it was doing us all a favour!
Read what Newt Gingrich has to say on duals voting…..(Hint $10,000 fine)
http://cis.org/DualAllegiance-Assimilation
@USCitizenAbroad, “Should the failure to file an FBAR be an expatriating act?”
Slightly tongue in cheek, If it was done voluntarily and with intent then YES.
That would be a WIN WIN proposition, another way out of Dodge and homelanders thinking they stuck it too you.
All this items COULD be added as expatriating under the 1990s added Code language “voluntarily and with intent” and not run afoul of SCOTUS.
When I was a US citizen residing outside the US, I filed US tax returns every year but the amount of US tax was zero most years. Does that mean I should have been allowed to vote because of filing or not because of not paying?
After renouncing, I don’t file US tax returns but the amount of US tax is several hundred dollars each year. A stockbroker deducts withholding which appears to be the correct amount of tax. Does this mean I should be allowed to vote because of paying or not because of not filing?
In some places, resident aliens can vote in local elections but not national elections. I don’t think it depends on paying taxes.
I think there are places where land owners can vote in local elections even if they don’t reside on the land. I expect that they pay property taxes.
If I visit a country and state and city and pay sales taxes to the country and state and city, should I get to vote in their elections?
The decision in Afroyim v. Rusk is very confusing. The 14th amendment guarantees US citizenship to certain persons but doesn’t guarantee US nationality. Historically Congress could deprive non-citizen nationals of their non-citizen nationality at the stroke of a pen, with or without any action by the persons, with or without any intent by the persons. The decision in Afroyim v. Rusk uses the words citizenship and nationality as if they were synonyms. Even though the 14th amendment still doesn’t guarantee US non-citizen nationality to anyone, it looks like the US Supreme Court does make that guarantee. I haven’t found anyone who knows if the Supreme Court meant what they said.
When the US allows its citizens to vote whether they are tax compliant or not, it would be fair to say that it still bases its citizenship on some rights also, however that too may fall under the taxation axe just as mobility rights have under passport revocation for unpaid taxes.
@Norman: Today “citizen” and “national” are often used interchangeably. The USA even today has several classes of denizen: XIV Amendment citizen born in one of the 50 States. Statutory citizen born in the 5 territories (formerly including Canal Zone) of which PR citizens have certain tax exemptions (a mirror tax for persons born or naturalised in PR, resident there, as regards PR income and assets: but with the territory insolvent who knows what will come); persons born abroad to US citizen(s) who qualify.
Before 1924 Indians were protégés not citizens. Before The Cable Act of 1922 women were conditional citizens. Filipinos were protégés until 1934 and then had a curious status until 1946 too weird to explain here.
There were people with First Papers. Inhabitants of ceded and acquired territory.
“Noncitizen national” is a curious categorisation for denizens of American Samoa and Swain Island. They (like citizens of Palau (Belau: apparently in exchange for strategic concessions) and Jay Treaty First Canadians) have unrestricted right to migrate to the 50 States, live and work.
A discussion of treaties ceding U.S. territory appears in the dissenting opinion of MacKinnon, J. in Edwards v. Carter, 580 F.2d 1055; 189 U.S. App. D.C. 1 (1978). http://openjurist.org/580/f2d/1055/edwards-v-carter
Voting rights do not equal representation.
Each state has the number of Representatives in the National House of Representatives decided upon by population as determined by the census. As USCs living externally of the homeland are not counted in the census, we are not represented regardless of voting rights.
As we can not contact our Senators and Representatives through our non US ISPs, we can not email them. As they will not accept overseas mail, either, how do we let those who represent homeland interests know of our interests?
As each state has two Senators and representatives to serve the interests of the residents of those states, we are without representation. Having been living in Japan for most of my adult life, my interests are much more closely aligned with a native of New Jersey living in Milan than they are with my former next door neighbor in the small farming and mining town in the Midwest where I was raised. My one voice, if I could communicate with the Representatives and Senator from my “home” district, would be drowned out by every other voter in the district, regardless of political affiliation.
Voting rights or not, we are without representation.
No taxation without representation.
‘Today âcitizenâ and ânationalâ are often used interchangeably.’
But in the US they can’t be, unless the Supreme Court’s intention in Afroyim v. Rusk was to turn US non-citizen nationals into citizens.
‘XIV Amendment citizen born in one of the 50 States.’
Ooooh, big question here. Does birth in DC count as birth in the US (14th amendment) or birth in a territory (see the following issue).
‘Statutory citizen born in the 5 territories (formerly including Canal Zone)’
They’re naturalized at birth by act of Congress, but naturalization makes them 14th amendment citizens so Congress can’t revoke their citizenship. This is a crucial difference from other territories where they’re born as non-citizen nationals where Congress could and did revoke their US nationality, but the Supreme Court’s wording in Afroyim v. Rusk makes it look like Congress’s revocations of nationality are also overturned.
‘of which PR citizens have certain tax exemptions’
I thought statutory citizens of all 5 of those territories had exemption from US CBT (though of course they have RBT in their territories).
‘Filipinos were protĂ©gĂ©s until 1934 and then had a curious status until 1946 too weird to explain here.’
As far as I can tell, they were US non-citizen nationals until 1934, and after 1934 they were aliens of the US who owed allegiance to the US and put their hands over their hearts every morning to pledge allegiance to the US instead of to the Philippines.
By the way, do you know if US non-citizen nationals in American Samoa are citizens of American Samoa the way the aforementioned US aliens were citizens of the US territory the Philippines? When I tried to search Google for American Samoan citizenship, all I found was the lawsuit trying to establish if birth in American Samoa should yield US citizenship.
Meanwhile, talking about weird, you haven’t seen weird yet. Here’s weird:
If two US non-citizen nationals, born in American Samoa, move to New Zealand, give birth in New Zealand, and report the birth to a US consulate in New Zealand, their child doesn’t get a certificate of non-citizen nationality. Their child gets a certificate of US citizenship! The child gets the status which historically used to be a benefit but is now the infamous slave leash.
22 CFR 50.7(a):
“Upon application and the submission of satisfactory proof of birth, identity and nationality, and at the time of the reporting of the birth, the consular officer may issue to the parent or legal guardian, when approved and upon payment of a prescribed fee, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America.”
“As USCs living externally of the homeland are not counted in the census, we are not represented regardless of voting rights.”
Well, USCs living in the homeland are counted in the census, and therefore supposedly represented even though they don’t get to vote because they’re too young, but they get taxed.
“As we can not contact our Senators and Representatives through our non US ISPs, we can not email them. As they will not accept overseas mail, either”
What do they do to overseas mail now? In or around 1993 I sent mail from Japan to the member of Congress for the district that I used to vote in, and received a personalized letter from one of his staff asking me to phone. The phone call was a waste of money but anyway the letter arrived.
Well, USCs living in the homeland are counted in the census, and therefore supposedly represented even though they donât get to vote because theyâre too young, but they get taxed.
Are they taxed directly or through their families. I sure do not recal having to pay tax as a child.
As for mail, I do not know from personal experience. I had long since stopped being interested in any but natonal elections as reliable news from home got hard to get. I got this from one or several of the articles, blogs, posts, whatever I have read in recent years.
I still am concerned about how I could possibly claim residency in a location I have not lived in for 20 years and while I have a permanent resident visa in Japan. Apart from the voter fraud aspect, I read somewhere that if we claim residence for voting we may jeopardize our FEIE as we can not be resident in two places at the same time.
I have been fighting with various apps and data storage devices for several years now. While I still have all or most of my data, I have lost all organization of it. All my 10,000 plus docs have been rendered ‘New York Times Artice 1 of 512’ of ‘IBS 1/456’ or similar. Can’t find anything except by accident.
“I sure do not recal having to pay tax as a child.”
I paid US income tax as a child. Furthermore I couldn’t take the standard deduction because my parents claimed me as a dependant on their return. I was working as a computer programmer.
Even younger, I paid state sales tax.
“I still am concerned about how I could possibly claim residency in a location I have not lived in for 20 years”
I declared that I was a former resident legally entitled to vote for federal offices.
“I read somewhere that if we claim residence for voting we may jeopardize our FEIE as we can not be resident in two places at the same time.”
I don’t recall if the US allows multiple residences. Canada does. Anyway, if for some reason the US doesn’t accept your residence in Japan, if you’re physically present for long enough and you perform your personal labour here you still get your FEIE.
“All my 10,000 plus docs have been rendered âNew York Times Artice 1 of 512âČ of âIBS 1/456âČ or similar. Canât find anything except by accident.”
Put them on the web, put 10,000 URLs in your home page, and let Google index it ^_^
Re: âItâs unjust. Itâs inhumane. I didnât choose where I was born!â
Guess what? Neither did I. Yet if I decide to move to Canada the officer on the Canadian side of the line on the map will turn me away, unlike people who happened to be born in Canada. They get to enjoy the benefits of the metric system and I don’t.
@ Norman Diamond:
âAll my 10,000 plus docs have been rendered âNew York Times Artice 1 of 512âČ of âIBS 1/456âČ or similar. Canât find anything except by accident.â
Put them on the web, put 10,000 URLs in your home page, and let Google index it ^_^
…That’s why my websites get so much traffic. I don’t know what I am doing and had no clue how to build a search box, so I put everything on static HTML pages which Google slurped down. Google would not have entered search queries into the search box. Google sent me tons of traffic to the HTML pages. I sure am glad I don’t know what I’m doing.
@ Norman Diamond
âAs we can not contact our Senators and Representatives through our non US ISPs, we can not email them. As they will not accept overseas mail, eitherâ
After the anthrax attacks in 2001, every snail mail to a Congressional Office on Capitol Hill had to go through a security screening and irradiation process, which delayed the delivery by several weeks.
Every member can be found from http://www.house.gov or http://www.senate.gov and on their web site you can find their fax and office telephone numbers.
@Tom Alciere
We have Trudeau1 to thank for the metric system here. Perhaps it’s no accident that it’s called the “Trudeametre”:
https://www.trudeaumetre.ca/
“They get to enjoy the benefits of the metric system and I donât.”
One would think so, but on this site I still see people talking about miles and pounds. I wonder how many generations will pass before people are willing to accept the metric system.
Anyway, even the US is partly metriculated, such as watts, volts, seconds, etc.
On the other hand, even though Japan mostly uses metric, we get inches for things like bicycle tires, diagonal measurements of computer screens and TVs, and one of the dimensions of hard drives. Hard drives are really cute, in both Japan and the US: the width is 2.5 inches, (or 3.5 inches for a desktop hard drive), the height is 9.5 millimetres (or other height for a few drives), and the length isn’t mentioned.
Through all the legalities of citizenship, voting rights, taxation, measurement standards, and so on, we poor individual humans have to muddle along on and on. I was happy doing it in the US as a child, but I’m happier doing it here in Canada as an adult. Support the ADCS Charter challenge!
The argument (not mine) about minors paying sales tax without representation is that if you do not want to pay sales tax, don’t buy anything. It can also be argued that Americans have no rights whatsoever until age 18 (and fewer and fewer as adults!) and that their interests are looked after by their parents. In general, I would hope that it is accurate to say that parents vote with their children’s interests at heart.
Who votes with our interests at heart?
Although I have voted in every federal election since I came of voting age over twenty years ago, I have never used the Federal write-in ballot despite living overseas for most of that time. The first six years after of voting age were spent at sea and I voted via absentee ballot in every election during that time. I just carried on voting via absentee ballot during college and living in Japan. I have never, ever been to a polling place.
The federal election of 1992 found me aboard a ship home-ported in Yokosuka, Japan. Having been at home on leave earlier that year, I was able to arrange for my county clerk to mail my absentee ballot to my shipboard address and thus voted in the 1992 presidential election. Right after the election, the word was passed for all hands who had registered for the federal write in ballot through their shipboard voting assistance officers to report to same. It turns out that most of those on my ship and at least several others in Yokosuka that thus registered to vote either did not receive their ballot at all or did so too late to be counted. I would later learn that this was not just a Navy wide occurrence but was seen in other services as well. Bet ya’ didn’t see THAT reported on CNN.
Until very, very recently, I believed that the Federal write in ballot was available only to active duty military personnel serving overseas and possibly their dependents. Regardless, after learning from my shipmates’ experience, I have believed that the Federal write in ballot is just another of those services and benefits that sounds good in conversation and looks good on paper until you actually try to partake of it, at which time you learn that it exists on paper only.
So my understanding that voting while claiming the FEIE may land one in hot water comes from voting absentee in one’s home precinct. My understanding may still be incorrect, but I think I was referring to an entirely different situation, especially since I have very little knowledge of this other way to vote.
Thanks for the advice for my docs. Sadly, not available to me. Just do not have the time. I do not know to put them on the web, do not have a homepage, nor Twitter or Facebook for that matter. No time for any of that.
“The argument (not mine) about minors paying sales tax without representation is that if you do not want to pay sales tax, donât buy anything.”
Our retort can be “Don’t buy tea.”
Some US states charge sales tax on food and clothing, just like Japan.
“Our retort can be âDonât buy tea.â”
I like that!
This all is rather hippocritical, isn’t it. Much is based in ignorance, such as homelanders not knowing that if evacuated by the US military that we must reimburse the government, but much of it is pure hippocracy on the part of many himelanders.