This post ends with the following question:
Are Americans really “so beaten down, so subservient, so fearful of authority that it complies with the most horrific and undemocratic “laws” and is unable to unite and simply say NO, collectively.”
I invite you to express your answer in this poll:
Perhaps you could consider this question while reading the following post.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Re: US Tyranny and Terrorany "People are developing resistance and figuring out there is not much the U.S. can do." https://t.co/Vakr3uya4g
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) December 3, 2015
The above tweet references the following comment from @Homelander_NOT on Robert Wood’s blog.
Yet another punitive measure that will further the creation of a US Berlin wall plus make life more complicated for Americans/”U.S. Persons” abroad. Other recent moves which demonstrate the tendency of the U.S. government to repeatedly “do the wrong thing:” ” Is US considering not publishing #USExpatriation list anymore? If yes, efficiency or embarrassment?” https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2015/12/01/2015-30366/proposed-collection-comment-request-for-information-collection … (not at all sure that is what implied by this tweet I received) and Executor liability for U.S. income tax and penalties, interest, etc., may extend to you if you were aware that the decedent owed the U.S. treasury for say tax from unfiled tax returns.http://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/good-to-know-part-3-from-larry-stolberg-cpa-ca/#.Vl79_PmrTIV . For such an “ advanced” nation, the U.S. seems not to understand basic psychology. The more one tries to restrict somebody, the more they are likely to be resisted. If it is true the Name & Shame List’s days are numbered, it won’t be of any consequence. Who reads the Federal Register anyway? Personally, I could care less if they kept an ongoing list published in the NYT and like many, consider it a badge of honor. Proof of being a ‘real’ American if you will. And more nonsense/confusion for an executor (really? even an “alien one? Just how would they enforce that?). Or is it more along the lines that no one can even imagine someone having the gall to not obey the exceptionalistic conditioning that can only be dumped by experiencing the rest of the world? It is a well-documented problem that the IRS does not have records for expats; even with FATCA there are likely to be many pieces of undeliverable mail. Yes the IRS cares not and will continue to follow their own procedures. I expect thousands upon thousands to simply ignore those letters. People are developing resistance and figuring out there is not much the U.S. can do. Other than count on the fact that such folks will surely want to come to the U.S. so “we’ll get them at the border.” Lots of people are figuring out the better choice is simply to go elsewhere for vacations and have family visits where the expat families are. All of this is pathetically sad. All this grief for insistence on filing forms to show there is likely no tax owed-when everyone KNOWS its the big fish living in the U.S.that all this effort should be expended toward. Again, such a very basic, basic thing that eludes those running the most dominant, most fortunate country on earth. I remain puzzled that this is what has happened to the country I grew up in and in spite of awareness of its many flaws, still loved until FBAR.
It’s interesting that the recent linking of passport restrictions to tax compliance has received little discussion at the Isaac Brock Society. To me, this suggests that Brock is largely populated by those who:
1. Do NOT consider themselves to be U.S. citizens (meaning they don’t care about a U.S. passport anyway); and
2. Are primarily concerned with the effects of U.S. extraterritorial tyranny and U.S. terrorany on Canadian citizens.
It’s the opposite in Europe where the Facebook groups (at least here and here) have included much discussion about the upcoming passport restrictions. The usual lobby groups, have done their usual letter writing, with the usual response (nothing) from the USA.
U.S. citizenship and the U.S. passport …
The State Department takes the position that a U.S. passport is proof of U.S. citizenship. It is an “incident of U.S. citizenship”. What is the meaning of U.S. citizenship? What does it mean when one holds a U.S. passport?
Bubblebustin recently asked the following question:
@USCitizenAbroad
Isn’t the current Congressional enforcement of CBT in fact resulting in the destruction of US citizenship we are seeing today, the justification for these laws derived from the notion that citizenship is based in taxation, or, “Taxation-Based Citizenship”?
Congress has turned what it means to be a citizen on its head, the result of which is that the citizen becomes the servant of the government, as opposed to the reverse. CBT is like a splinter that until now one could ignore, but because of irritating acts of Congress is now festering to the point of becoming life threatening. Unfortunately because citizenship and taxation are intertwined as such (Cook v Tait) the citizen must remove him/herself from the splinter instead.
Are we dealing with “citizenship-based taxation” or with “taxation-based citizenship”?
Since the 2004 creation of the “Tax Citizen” (as described by Virgina La Torre Jeker), U.S. citizenship and taxation have become one and the same. Taxation = citizenship and citizenship = taxation (without specifying the “incidents of taxation”).
The new meaning of U.S. citizenship – Taxation isn’t everything, it’s the only thing
In 2013, U.S. tax lawyer, Stephen Mopsick opined (while acknowledging the problems of FATCA) on the meaning of U.S. citizenship. On June 30, 2014 (largely in response to his post) I wrote the following post on Brock.
July 4 Reflection: Meaning of "Being an American" vs. "Being one of those #Americansabroad" https://t.co/d3tAQemx0N via @@IsaacBrockSoc
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) December 3, 2015
It included:
As we approach the 4th of July – Independence Day – one must ask whether the there is a difference between “Being an American” and “Being an American Abroad”. Another year has passed.
– the formal relinquishments of U.S. citizenship continue to grow
– the informal relinquishments of U.S. citizenship (run and hide) are going through the roof
– the rollout of “FATCA Hunt” is forcing Americans abroad to hide their “USness”
– the U.S. Congress has shown no interest in freeing Americans abroad from the “prison of citizenship-based taxation” – AKA taxation based on place of birth
Tomorrow July 1, 2014 marks the Official start of FATCA Hunt.
As Americans abroad contemplating the arrival of Independence Day:
What are your thoughts on the MEANING of being an American abroad?
What message would you like to send to America this Independence Day?
I encourage you to go and reread the comments to this post.
Leading to: The role of the passport in “facilitating” “taxation-based citizenship” …
A. History of the control of movement through the passport
U.S. Passport as Instrument of Control https://t.co/d0iP8nvkRS – History of the use of the passport as an instrument to prevent travel
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) December 3, 2015
The above tweet references a Brock post from USXCanada. It includes:
The extraordinary Mrs. Shipley: how the United States controlled international travel before the age of terrorism
Connecticut Law Review 43:3 (Feb 2011) 819-888http://uconn.lawreviewnetwork.com/files/documents/JeffreyKahn43Conn.L.Rev.819.pdf
[389 footnotes] Career civil servant Ruth B. Shipley acted as chief of the Passport Division of the U.S. State Department from 1928 to 1955. Shipley personally reviewed every passport application, and prior to 1958 Supreme Court decision, her actions were subject to no judicial review. Shipley denied passports to Paul Robeson, Arthur Miller, Linus Pauling, and “many other” Americans during the 1950s. Kahn’s article explores how Shipley acquired such power and how the US passport became an instrument to prevent rather than permit travel. A backgrounder opening (825-842) provides a history of travel controls from 1789 to the Shipley era. Originally the passport was “a document [issued by the country that the traveler sought to enter] that granted a foreigner permission to pass into or out of a country’s ports” (825) — the opposite of what the passport came to be. Kahn concludes that current administration of U.S. citizens has achieved the Shipley effect through authority “diffused among intelligence analysts in multiple agencies who now compile watchlists of people deemed too dangerous to travel.” In this environment, judicial review is crippled by “the traditional deference accorded to national security and the sometimes secret processes by which that government interest is secured” (887).
B. The passport application as a means to notify U.S. Treasury of the existence of Americans abroad
There is NO DOUBT that that passports are now linked to tax compliance. For the past several years it has been common knowledge that passport applications and renewals were being used to notify U.S. treasury of the existence of Americans Abroad (as discussed in this post by MopsickTaxLaw). Until now, the passport application has been used to notify U.S. Treasury of your existence. That was then. Now as discussed by Rober Wood and others , the IRS can “in effect” deny you a U.S. passport.
C. The denial of a U.S. passport to those (including Americans abroad) who “owe” U.S. taxes
Americans abroad are the most likely to be affected by these incredibly punitive measures. Most Americans abroad are in a position where they:
1. Don’t know they are required to pay U.S. taxes; or
2. Can’t understand the rules they are asked to comply with.
Because the Internal Revenue Code penalized all things “foreign”, Americans abroad are particularly susceptible to penalties and IRS tax debts. The effect of this measure is that eventually (we all know how things get worse and worse) many Americans abroad will be denied U.S. passports. This means that they can’t travel to the USA (as is required by law) on a U.S. passport. Perhaps they can risk travel on another passport.
At a bare minimum, it is very risky for a U.S. citizen to live outside the United States if he/she has ONLY a U.S. passport.
Conclusion: The future of U.S. citizenship abroad …
It’s over. U.S. citizenship citizenship is now synonymous with taxation. Taxation is a code of taxes, reporting requirements and rules of life control that:
1. Cannot be understood by the average person (except with the assistance of “tax professionals” of questionable competence); or
2. Is of a level of complexity that compliance is almost impossible; or
3. Is such those who can comply will find that U.S. tax compliance makes living life outside the United States impossible.
And now, the Government of the United States – that “Great Citadel of Freedom and Justice” claims the right to deny you the right to travel from or to the United States. Seems to me that you can either (1) realize that compliance is impossible or (2) take whatever steps are necessary to renounce.
The true Obama Legacy is the destruction of “U.S. citizenship abroad”. Of course, that’s change you can believe in!
The teaching of Cook v. Tait is that the U.S. Government somehow benefits its citizens wherever they may be. That was in the era of “citizenship-based taxation”. In new era of “taxation-based citizenship”, it has become clear that the sole purpose of the citizen is to benefit the government.
The question is: why have Americans allowed this to happen? Why has there been no resistance?
"What astonishes all of my “foreign” friends is how passive, obedient and fearful US people are of their government" https://t.co/1Lfa7lI5fu
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) December 3, 2015
The above tweet references the following comment from the Maplesandbox blog.
As a former U.S. citizen, who renounced just in order to survive, as my four non-U.S. business partners gave me an ultimatum, either get rid of your U.S. citizenship, which was contaminating our totally German business and subjecting our company’s accounts to U.S. Treasury and IRS scrutiny, or you must sell your shares and leave. This all started upon the advice of our German bank, who said that they wouldn’t deal with our accounts if there was any American/’U.S. Person’ involvement? Not to mention the personal impact on my mortgage, on my bank closing all of my investment accounts and everything else that every reader here knows all too well.
What amazes me most, and also amazes all of my personal and professional friends, all of them non U.S. persons, is how obedient and conforming the organizations supposedly representing the interests of U.S. citizens abroad are. With all that has happened, and especially now, subsequent to the Senate Finance Committee’s “report” on tax reform, paying nothing but contemptuous lip service to the plight of US citizens abroad, it should be more than obvious that U.S. Citizens abroad are of absolutely no relevance for lawmakers and legislators in Washington. Yet, the attitude of all of the organizations supposedly looking out for and fighting for the rights of US citizens abroad has been to follow a very respectful path of presenting the case for change, as if they were dealing with a fair democratic system, that respects equal representation and justice. They look ridiculous, all of them! When I read that Democrats Abroad have been trying to push the “bandage” fix of ‘Same Country Exception’ for more than four years, with no result, I say that this is absolutely pathetic. When I see American Citizens Abroad sending endless delegations to Washington, year after year, and even opening an office there, only to see the interests of overseas Americans relegated to a footnote, with no action proposed n the recent Senate Financial Committee report, I would think that they should be embarrassed and ashamed, as they should be. It has taken the group Republicans Overseas over one year to formulate an intended lawsuit, which has been postponed endless times, with a “promise” to file it next week, I say that they too have not approached this in the right way. Too much damage has been done in the interim.
What astonishes all of my “foreign” friends is how passive, obedient and fearful U.S. people are of their government, especially when confronted with such outright injustice, literal extortion and destruction of their financial well being and that of their families and business partners. Even the ever law abiding Germans wouldn’t put up with any of this and they would probably, en masse, as one lawyer friend told me, simply refuse to cooperate with any of this Byzantine filing of forms and endless intrusions into their privacy and that of their families and business partners. They would collectively refuse and file class action suits against the authorities behind these injustices worthy of a fascist totalitarian regime. Perhaps the Germans understand better than the Americans what this sort of thing leads to, when a society becomes so beaten down, so subservient, so fearful of authority that it complies with the most horrific and undemocratic “laws” and is unable to unite and simply say NO, collectively. Until Americans fight to recover some form of democracy and fairness, the ravages of FATCA will be but one in a coming litany of similar such abuses. To continue believing that they are dealing with democratic institutions and that reason and fairness will prevail is nothing but a naive attitude that will lead them nowhere, as we can now see with the recent Senate Finance Committee report.
I have bolded the last paragraph of this comment. Are Americans really “so beaten down, so subservient, so fearful of authority that it complies with the most horrific and undemocratic “laws” and is unable to unite and simply say NO, collectively.”
“I will go with whatever the legal name of that country is under Canadian law.”
I think Myanmar’s law gets to say what the name of the country is. Japan, which is my temporary residence, accepts the name that Myanmar assigned to itself. I didn’t notice that Canada specified a name for that country.
When living in Canada I noticed that Canada specified a name for the Chinese province of Taiwan. The province doesn’t call itself Chinese Taipei, but Canada calls it that. At the time, I was living in the province of Canadian Toronto.
“I am not interested in giving my hard earned money to anyone who isn’t focused on winning in a court of law. Provable facts–not political posturing–win in that forum.”
Provable facts do not win in a court of law. Well, except sometimes.
Disprovable assertions of fact do win, even after being disproved. The posturing isn’t political, it’s kind of like legal ethics, which is kind of like the Christmas bunny, and courts let it win even after its lies have been demonstrated.
@Dash
No, they have not been fined. Like diving 75mph in a 55mph zone, just because you haven’t been ticketed yet for diving 75 doesn’t make it hypothetical.
But that is not what we were discussing. You said that the numbers of Noncompliant expats must be small. The sources I gave say otherwise. Of course they haven’t been fined yet, unless they entered one of the “amnesty” programs because they have not yet been found out.
No, I have not yet been contacted by the IRS. However this is what I found on page 191 of the IRS TAS ARC 2011 Vol. 1.
deFiniTion oF ProbleM
U.S. taxpayers abroad who do not comply with complex information reporting require ments are subject to financially devastating penalties that often are not commensurate with the tax liability at issue. these penalties may range from $10,000 per violation to the greater of $600,000 or 300 percent of the foreign account balance for willful failures continuing over a six-year period.1 the National taxpayer advocate is concerned about an apparent shift in the irS’s approach to the application of these civil penalties. although the irS’s longstanding policy is to use penalties “to encourage voluntary compliance,”2 there are indications the irS may have used penalties as leverage against taxpayers who have entered into voluntary disclosure programs, often penalizing those who are trying to become compliant.3
I had five different accounts. Due to a joint account with my spouse which contained money they earned and paid taxes on in Japan the aggregate of my accounts was greater than $10,000. So, my fine for not filing forms that I had no way of knowing about are a minimum of $10,000 times 5 (the number of bank accounts I had) times six years equals $300,000. Not because I owe taxes, because I did not spy on my spouse’s financial information as required due to our joint account.
@monolisa1776
I will NOT give FINCEN any of my spouses financial info. It violates USclaw for them to demand it of myself without due process and violates at the very least the trust my spouse has in me and very possibly Japanese law. I am certain it would be a violation of Japanese law to report an account I had signature authority over at work, if I had such authority but am not yet clear if it is for me to report a spouses info to a foreign country. But I DO know that my spouse will not allow it and neither do I. Again, this violates US law.
There is no possibility for me to file FBARs as long as my spouse’s info must be reported. As we must back file these to clear everything up, several more years remain before I can even entertain doing so.
Further, I am not in tax return compliance either. The following is from my submission to the Senate earlier this year explains why.
“At one point, a new requirement came in the form of a letter attached to the front of the instruction booklet sent to me by the IRS. Many I have spoken to since have told me that this requirement did not apply to me, yet there it was in writing in the envelope the IRS sent directly to my address in Japan. This requirement was confirmed twice during two different late night phone calls to the IRS. I was then required to report the exact amount paid each month in US dollars and write an essay explaining how I came up with the US dollar amount from the local currency. This was a monumental undertaking for me. Not having any knowledge of this requirement before hand, I had to research what the exchange rate was on each day I received a payment and use that exchange rate to calculate the exact amount in US dollars received as renumeration, commuting costs and all deductions. This greatly increased the number of computations needed and thus the opportunity to make a mathematical error. Each error carried the weight of a $10,000 fine. The task made even more difficult by the fact that my manager had not issued a monthly pay slip for three months the previous tax year. Without the aid of a computer of my own,nor even a calculator, it took over a week of all day, every day work to complete my US income Tax return for that year. Despite my best efforts, I sent it off with great fear that there must be at least one error and that I would be fined huge amounts of money, more than I would be able to pay. With a yearly salary of ¥30,000, paying off a $33,000 school loan and living in what was at the time the most expensive city in the world for expats, that was an awful lot of paperwork to be required to show that I did not earn enough to owe taxes to the US and yet be under threat of massive fines for inadvertent errors. ”
“That was the work load with just one employer, one pay day a month and just one bank account. After working with that company for two and a half years, I started working for multiple entities. A common feature in Japan is that the employer often tells the employee which bank the company will pay the employee through direct deposit. Such was the case with many of my employers. Thus, I ended up having accounts in five different banks for my nine employers to deposit my pay into. Additionally, I have had as many as six different paydays a month. The time required to do and check and double check the numerous computations of yen to dollars for each payday times six for each month times twelve for the entire year was and remains far more than I can do without quitting all my jobs and devote my life to income tax filing compliance, again with no tax owed but with the risk of massive fines for inadvertent errors and omissions. That may sound like an exaggeration, but it is not. Here is what the IRS Taxpayer Advocate Service (TAS) stated on the complexity in the IRS Taxpayer Advocate Service Annual Report to Congress 2011 Vol.1 ( IRS TAS ARC 2011 VOL.1) page 132.
The complexity and administrative detail of the international reporting requirements are overwhelming.
the irS has 16 publications that address international issues for individuals, totaling 407 pages, with 110 references to other publications totaling 4,491 pages and 137 references to forms totaling 450 pages which have an additional 2,190 pages of instructions. at a mini mum, individual international taxpayers spent 25 million hours reviewing and complet ing ty 2009 forms.24 publication 4732, Federal Tax Information for U.S. Taxpayers Living Abroad, illustrates the complexity of the filing requirements for individual U.S. taxpayers. the publication refers to at least eight other relevant irS publications, totaling 563 pages. Further, the additional documents referred to by these eight publications include 4,727 pages of instructions, 667 pages of forms, and another 1,928 pages of form instructions for a total of 7,322 pages.
For those of you who have earned a better position in life than I, a position that allows you the time and money to be in compliance, I am truly happy for you. I mean that. I bear no ill will to those who are more successful than I. But it is wrong for you to assume that all others have the same resources available not only to be in compliance but to even know that there is something that needed to be complied with in the first place. However, it can not be stressed enough that this whole mess is illegal in the first place. Besides, are you 100% sure that you are really in compliance? Reading through threads and posts here and elsewhere there seems to be a whole hell of a lot of people who had every reason to believe they were only to discover that they are not.
@Norman Diamond
Is Title 31 sacred? Will the IRS never violate it? Or is more likely, having already broken all the other laws you cite that the IRS will break Title 31 too?
Also, you missed my point on how do I do what you have done. Let me ask it this way, which job or jobs do I quit so that I have the time to deal with it? Having lost the income from those jobs, which bills do I not pay so that I can deal with it?
@Japan T,
If you’re compliant on taxes but non-compliant on FBAR the IRS has a fine free path for you to become compliant. Check the OVDP FAQ. You can file delinquent FBARs. You don’t need to enter a program.
Remember that non owing any tax does not mean you are tax compliant. You have to declare the income on the tax forms. There may not be any tax associated with the income but if you didn’t declare it you are not compliant. These are their shit rules but that’s it.
So your argument about being compliant in tax only and facing huge fines doesn’t hold water. Are you going with the fact that they could theoretically levy the fines? Of course if you don’t file FBAR after you know about it then you are willful.
@monolisa1776
When our government is allowed to break the law the situation is as bad as anyone can fear, even worse.
These quotes are from my passport renewal application.
“The Department of State must provide your SSN and foreign residence information to the Department of Treasury. If you fail to provide the information, you are subject to a $500 penalty enforced by the IRS.”
“Your Social Security Number will be provided to Treasury , used in connection with debt collection and checked against lists of persons ineligible or potentially ineligible to receive a U.S. Passport, among other authorized uses.”
These are in violation of the law. The only legal way for one gov. organization to share ANY information it has on ANY citizen other than for purely administrative purposes is via court order after demonstrating probable cause.
By the second quote above, the U.S. has attached eligibility to rights. That should scare the F out of every US citizen. How long until you must prove your eligibility to exercise your first amendment rights?
Each time we allow one right to fall, those left standing are weaker.
By applying for my new passport, I was forced, extorted, into proving information that they state they will use illegally. Why would anyone then trust anything else these criminals state, as far as limits to there criminality is concerned?
It is illegal for our passports to be revoked without indictment. Yet, they have passed a “law” to do so.
With everything else in this mess, there is hope, faint though it may be, of redress. The is not such a hope with the loss of a passport as the laws of more than one nation apply. Let’s say my passport is revoked. I return to the U.S. and the best lawyer that ever walked the earth takes pity upon me and works for me free of charge. This lawyer successfully defends me and we even win in holding the officials who violated my rights accountable for their misuse and abuse of power. I even win a huge settlement from the State for their violation of my rights and our laws. Yes, I know it’s a dream, but let’s say it happens.
I still would not have a visa to return to Japan and there is nothing any judge, court, Congressman nor Senator, nor anyone in the US can do to compel Japan to reissue my permanent resident visa. Nor to compel my employers to give me my former positions , nor even my, by then long estranged, family to accept me back. Thus my fear. We should not even be having this conversation. The fact that we are is proof that our Constitutionally protected rights have been eroded too an astonishing degree.
If the U.S. followed the law, none of us would be on this site talking about any of this.
There are no limits to what a government that does not honor the limits imposed upon it by the law, will do.
@Neill
Sir,
Please read my post in its entirty. Filing delinquent FBARS would cause us to violate Local law which do not allow such reporting of local citizens to a Foreign nation.
It is illegal for us to file FBARs if we must also include private financial data of others to a foreign country.
I say again, it violates loop cal laws to comply with FBAR. Compliance with FBAR violates the laws of the nation’s we live in.
Does everyone now understand why many of us are CAN NOT comply with FBAR? It is AGAINST THE LAW FOR US TO SO.
So yes, according to the TAS, I can expect FBAR fines and according to the statements on my passport renewal application, I can expect the IRS to have me on their radar.
Further, the $10,000 fine for each nonreported account multiplied by six is for UNWILLING NONCOMPLIANCE. The fines for willing compliance are ever worse, if there is such a thing as it being worse to be hit with a 100 megaton bomb rather than a 10 megaton bomb.
@Japan T,
I file two FBARs. One for my wife and one for me. I don’t put any other peoples details on my FBAR and my wife’s FBAR only has her details.
@Neill
My spouse is not a US citizen. Putting their info is putting someone elses info on it.
If your wife is not a USC, you may be breaking local law. FBAR requires you to report every account you have an interest in, including any account you have signatory power over. For those of us that have such a position at work, reporting those company accounts is in violation of a whole mess of laws, rules, regulations and trust.
Just because you may not be in a position that requires you to break local law by complying with FBAR that does not mean that FBAR is not forcing expats to break the law of the country they reside in.
If your wife is not a USC and it is NOT a violation of local law to report her assets to a foreign gov., I must still ask why in God’s name would you sell out your own wife to what is to her a foreign government, a foreign government that has NO RIGHT, NO LEGAL nor MORAL AUTHORITY whatsoever in extorting that information from her husband?
If a group of thugs broke into your house and threatened your wife, what would you do? Why, would you not do the same when your government acts illegally towards her?
Me, I will defend my spouse from any threat, foreign or demestic to the utmost of my ability.
@Japan T,
We don’t have joint foreign accounts. We file two FBARs with different accounts on them.
You can be on your high horse about not reporting your wife’s accounts but if they find out they can take all your stuff. I know it’s not fair but you have to be compliant.
@JapanT
Would it be possible for you not to have a joint account with your wife at least going forward? You can only do what you can do. My husband and I have a joint account, but it is only my money that goes into that account.
@Dash
Once the enforcement starts, there may be more compelling hardship cases.
@Neill
The changes in the tax law that you point to are very far from any attempt to really nail people who left the U.K. Yes, you will now be charged if you use many NHS services and your parents may lose various credits if they visit you for more than a month. Occasionally someone on the left, most recently Simon Jenkins of the Guardian, will suggest in passing that Britain goes with CBT, but I honestly can’t see George Osborne going for it.
When you guys say “court of law” what are you referring to? Is this a US court? How does some one living in Japan end up in a US court if they are never setting foot there again? If they are never setting foot on US soil again what next, is Japan going to extradite him? I live in NZ and we have been dealing with the Kim Dotcom saga for years, this guy is wanted for major crimes in the US and NZ courts can’t even extradite HIM. So, I can’t see them extraditing some guy who forgot to file FBARs. In which case, obtaining a CLN and never setting foot on US soil seems the best solution for most expats settled overseas. Get CLN, ignore everything else and never set foot over there again, get on with the life you made overseas.
Obama puts his John Hancock on highway bill.
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/262171-obama-signs-305b-highway-bill
All this mess has been caused by the FBAR penalty having been set at an absolute $10,000 per account per year. A fair penalty would have been 1% of the maximum balance per account per year since it’s proportionate to the amount involved and does not wipe out life savings for innocent minnows. The law as it stands is blatant miscarriage of justice perpetrated by Treasury in not doing a thing to fix it.
Pukekonz is right. Most expats, duals , accidentals whatever who live offshore need do nothing after obtaining their CLN.
@Duke of Devon
“Most expats, duals , accidentals whatever who live offshore need do nothing after obtaining their CLN.”
Just imagine losing your CLN…
@Bubblebustin
“Obama puts his John Hancock on highway bill.”
Without reading the article, I’m sure that he slipped in a new law called GOTCHA to complement FATCA, FBAR as well as CBT.
@Publius
“Occasionally someone on the left … will suggest in passing that Britain goes with CBT, but I honestly can’t see George Osborne going for it.”
But George the Poodle eventually signed the IGA for his country. I imagine that, as Finance Minister, he had full knowledge of the CBT monstrosity behind it.
@Neill
“We don’t have joint foreign accounts. We file two FBARs with different accounts on them.
You can be on your high horse about not reporting your wife’s accounts but if they find out they can take all your stuff. I know it’s not fair but you have to be compliant.”
Who exactly are “they”…? The IRS? In a foreign jurisdiction? On what objective basis? An accidental American birth? “They can take all your stuff” sounds a bit like scaremongering. Some of us have survived very well without a CLN and without communicating with that tax mafia.
@Duality,
The IRS. They took my stuff. One little push and all those other governments bent over backwards to rat out their residents. Look at all the companies the IRS has sued for breaking American laws in places where those laws didn’t apply!
We were talking about people with tax bills they haven’t paid rather than people off the grid btw.
“Is Title 31 sacred? Will the IRS never violate it? Or is more likely, having already broken all the other laws you cite that the IRS will break Title 31 too?”
All I said is:
US Tax Court refused to take jurisdiction over an FBAR issue because FBAR is Title 31 not Title 26;
and:
I’ve experienced the IRS violating many laws and rules of Title 26, but have not seen reports of the IRS breaking Title 31.
I have no reason to suppose that Title 31 is sacred, and no reason to suppose that the IRS will refrain from breaking it if they find some way to break it, I just haven’t seen any instances.
For comparison, the US Constitution has one sacred amendment, the 2nd. The others have mostly been overturned by courts.
“Also, you missed my point on how do I do what you have done. Let me ask it this way, which job or jobs do I quit so that I have the time to deal with it? Having lost the income from those jobs, which bills do I not pay so that I can deal with it?”
The IRS and Congress want you to choose either to quit all your jobs and move to the US, or to renounce. Of course neither of these is enough to patch up your existing non-compliance.
If you find a job in the US paying the same salary you get now, it will be low enough that you will qualify for a Low Income Tax Clinic in any state or in DC, which still won’t solve all your problems but it will be a help. Same if you don’t find a job and go on welfare. The IRS and Congress have spoken; they do want you to go on welfare in the US instead of staying where you are.
I could renounce US citizenship because I could keep Canadian citizenship, though that was then. Canada changed its law later to make me a second class Canadian citizen, subject to becoming stateless because I’m probably eligible for Japanese citizenship despite not having any wish to acquire it. I understand you don’t have another citizenship, so your problems are bigger than mine. I don’t pretend to have a solution for you.
‘When you guys say “court of law” what are you referring to? Is this a US court?’
When I’ve been speaking of courts, I’ve been referring to US courts, though the “of law” part of it is nearly as inaccurate as “of justice” would be.
‘How does some one living in Japan end up in a US court if they are never setting foot there again?’
Filings in US Tax Court and US Court of Federal Claims can be done by mail.
However, you won’t win in Tax Court unless the IRS admits to facts (which they do sometimes) and you won’t win in Court of Federal Claims unless the US Department of Justice admits to facts. Even in an instance when the IRS admits to a fact, the DOJ doesn’t have to listen to the IRS, the DOJ can continue with its lies, and the court will accept the DOJ’s lies.
‘If they are never setting foot on US soil again what next, is Japan going to extradite him?’
If the person isn’t Japanese, Japan can deport him.
When the US revoked the passport of the US’s chess hero Bobby Fischer (for playing chess in the wrong country), the US government informed the Japanese government but didn’t inform Bobby Fischer. So when he thought he was going to go on a short vacation, he was arrested in outbound Japanese immigration control in the airport. I don’t know why the Japanese government allowed him to remain in a Japanese jail until he could get Icelandic citizenship and be deported to Iceland instead of to the US, but let’s be glad they did. He didn’t live long after that though.
“Obama puts his John Hancock on highway bill.”
Did not. John Hancock was a patriot, and supported human rights.
“Just imagine losing your CLN…”
You’re right. Let’s hope everyone who belongs in the Federal Register’s honour roll gets their name published for backup.