This post ends with the following question:
Are Americans really “so beaten down, so subservient, so fearful of authority that it complies with the most horrific and undemocratic “laws” and is unable to unite and simply say NO, collectively.”
I invite you to express your answer in this poll:
Perhaps you could consider this question while reading the following post.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Re: US Tyranny and Terrorany "People are developing resistance and figuring out there is not much the U.S. can do." https://t.co/Vakr3uya4g
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) December 3, 2015
The above tweet references the following comment from @Homelander_NOT on Robert Wood’s blog.
Yet another punitive measure that will further the creation of a US Berlin wall plus make life more complicated for Americans/”U.S. Persons” abroad. Other recent moves which demonstrate the tendency of the U.S. government to repeatedly “do the wrong thing:” ” Is US considering not publishing #USExpatriation list anymore? If yes, efficiency or embarrassment?” https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2015/12/01/2015-30366/proposed-collection-comment-request-for-information-collection … (not at all sure that is what implied by this tweet I received) and Executor liability for U.S. income tax and penalties, interest, etc., may extend to you if you were aware that the decedent owed the U.S. treasury for say tax from unfiled tax returns.http://www.taxconnections.com/taxblog/good-to-know-part-3-from-larry-stolberg-cpa-ca/#.Vl79_PmrTIV . For such an “ advanced” nation, the U.S. seems not to understand basic psychology. The more one tries to restrict somebody, the more they are likely to be resisted. If it is true the Name & Shame List’s days are numbered, it won’t be of any consequence. Who reads the Federal Register anyway? Personally, I could care less if they kept an ongoing list published in the NYT and like many, consider it a badge of honor. Proof of being a ‘real’ American if you will. And more nonsense/confusion for an executor (really? even an “alien one? Just how would they enforce that?). Or is it more along the lines that no one can even imagine someone having the gall to not obey the exceptionalistic conditioning that can only be dumped by experiencing the rest of the world? It is a well-documented problem that the IRS does not have records for expats; even with FATCA there are likely to be many pieces of undeliverable mail. Yes the IRS cares not and will continue to follow their own procedures. I expect thousands upon thousands to simply ignore those letters. People are developing resistance and figuring out there is not much the U.S. can do. Other than count on the fact that such folks will surely want to come to the U.S. so “we’ll get them at the border.” Lots of people are figuring out the better choice is simply to go elsewhere for vacations and have family visits where the expat families are. All of this is pathetically sad. All this grief for insistence on filing forms to show there is likely no tax owed-when everyone KNOWS its the big fish living in the U.S.that all this effort should be expended toward. Again, such a very basic, basic thing that eludes those running the most dominant, most fortunate country on earth. I remain puzzled that this is what has happened to the country I grew up in and in spite of awareness of its many flaws, still loved until FBAR.
It’s interesting that the recent linking of passport restrictions to tax compliance has received little discussion at the Isaac Brock Society. To me, this suggests that Brock is largely populated by those who:
1. Do NOT consider themselves to be U.S. citizens (meaning they don’t care about a U.S. passport anyway); and
2. Are primarily concerned with the effects of U.S. extraterritorial tyranny and U.S. terrorany on Canadian citizens.
It’s the opposite in Europe where the Facebook groups (at least here and here) have included much discussion about the upcoming passport restrictions. The usual lobby groups, have done their usual letter writing, with the usual response (nothing) from the USA.
U.S. citizenship and the U.S. passport …
The State Department takes the position that a U.S. passport is proof of U.S. citizenship. It is an “incident of U.S. citizenship”. What is the meaning of U.S. citizenship? What does it mean when one holds a U.S. passport?
Bubblebustin recently asked the following question:
@USCitizenAbroad
Isn’t the current Congressional enforcement of CBT in fact resulting in the destruction of US citizenship we are seeing today, the justification for these laws derived from the notion that citizenship is based in taxation, or, “Taxation-Based Citizenship”?
Congress has turned what it means to be a citizen on its head, the result of which is that the citizen becomes the servant of the government, as opposed to the reverse. CBT is like a splinter that until now one could ignore, but because of irritating acts of Congress is now festering to the point of becoming life threatening. Unfortunately because citizenship and taxation are intertwined as such (Cook v Tait) the citizen must remove him/herself from the splinter instead.
Are we dealing with “citizenship-based taxation” or with “taxation-based citizenship”?
Since the 2004 creation of the “Tax Citizen” (as described by Virgina La Torre Jeker), U.S. citizenship and taxation have become one and the same. Taxation = citizenship and citizenship = taxation (without specifying the “incidents of taxation”).
The new meaning of U.S. citizenship – Taxation isn’t everything, it’s the only thing
In 2013, U.S. tax lawyer, Stephen Mopsick opined (while acknowledging the problems of FATCA) on the meaning of U.S. citizenship. On June 30, 2014 (largely in response to his post) I wrote the following post on Brock.
July 4 Reflection: Meaning of "Being an American" vs. "Being one of those #Americansabroad" https://t.co/d3tAQemx0N via @@IsaacBrockSoc
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) December 3, 2015
It included:
As we approach the 4th of July – Independence Day – one must ask whether the there is a difference between “Being an American” and “Being an American Abroad”. Another year has passed.
– the formal relinquishments of U.S. citizenship continue to grow
– the informal relinquishments of U.S. citizenship (run and hide) are going through the roof
– the rollout of “FATCA Hunt” is forcing Americans abroad to hide their “USness”
– the U.S. Congress has shown no interest in freeing Americans abroad from the “prison of citizenship-based taxation” – AKA taxation based on place of birth
Tomorrow July 1, 2014 marks the Official start of FATCA Hunt.
As Americans abroad contemplating the arrival of Independence Day:
What are your thoughts on the MEANING of being an American abroad?
What message would you like to send to America this Independence Day?
I encourage you to go and reread the comments to this post.
Leading to: The role of the passport in “facilitating” “taxation-based citizenship” …
A. History of the control of movement through the passport
U.S. Passport as Instrument of Control https://t.co/d0iP8nvkRS – History of the use of the passport as an instrument to prevent travel
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) December 3, 2015
The above tweet references a Brock post from USXCanada. It includes:
The extraordinary Mrs. Shipley: how the United States controlled international travel before the age of terrorism
Connecticut Law Review 43:3 (Feb 2011) 819-888http://uconn.lawreviewnetwork.com/files/documents/JeffreyKahn43Conn.L.Rev.819.pdf
[389 footnotes] Career civil servant Ruth B. Shipley acted as chief of the Passport Division of the U.S. State Department from 1928 to 1955. Shipley personally reviewed every passport application, and prior to 1958 Supreme Court decision, her actions were subject to no judicial review. Shipley denied passports to Paul Robeson, Arthur Miller, Linus Pauling, and “many other” Americans during the 1950s. Kahn’s article explores how Shipley acquired such power and how the US passport became an instrument to prevent rather than permit travel. A backgrounder opening (825-842) provides a history of travel controls from 1789 to the Shipley era. Originally the passport was “a document [issued by the country that the traveler sought to enter] that granted a foreigner permission to pass into or out of a country’s ports” (825) — the opposite of what the passport came to be. Kahn concludes that current administration of U.S. citizens has achieved the Shipley effect through authority “diffused among intelligence analysts in multiple agencies who now compile watchlists of people deemed too dangerous to travel.” In this environment, judicial review is crippled by “the traditional deference accorded to national security and the sometimes secret processes by which that government interest is secured” (887).
B. The passport application as a means to notify U.S. Treasury of the existence of Americans abroad
There is NO DOUBT that that passports are now linked to tax compliance. For the past several years it has been common knowledge that passport applications and renewals were being used to notify U.S. treasury of the existence of Americans Abroad (as discussed in this post by MopsickTaxLaw). Until now, the passport application has been used to notify U.S. Treasury of your existence. That was then. Now as discussed by Rober Wood and others , the IRS can “in effect” deny you a U.S. passport.
C. The denial of a U.S. passport to those (including Americans abroad) who “owe” U.S. taxes
Americans abroad are the most likely to be affected by these incredibly punitive measures. Most Americans abroad are in a position where they:
1. Don’t know they are required to pay U.S. taxes; or
2. Can’t understand the rules they are asked to comply with.
Because the Internal Revenue Code penalized all things “foreign”, Americans abroad are particularly susceptible to penalties and IRS tax debts. The effect of this measure is that eventually (we all know how things get worse and worse) many Americans abroad will be denied U.S. passports. This means that they can’t travel to the USA (as is required by law) on a U.S. passport. Perhaps they can risk travel on another passport.
At a bare minimum, it is very risky for a U.S. citizen to live outside the United States if he/she has ONLY a U.S. passport.
Conclusion: The future of U.S. citizenship abroad …
It’s over. U.S. citizenship citizenship is now synonymous with taxation. Taxation is a code of taxes, reporting requirements and rules of life control that:
1. Cannot be understood by the average person (except with the assistance of “tax professionals” of questionable competence); or
2. Is of a level of complexity that compliance is almost impossible; or
3. Is such those who can comply will find that U.S. tax compliance makes living life outside the United States impossible.
And now, the Government of the United States – that “Great Citadel of Freedom and Justice” claims the right to deny you the right to travel from or to the United States. Seems to me that you can either (1) realize that compliance is impossible or (2) take whatever steps are necessary to renounce.
The true Obama Legacy is the destruction of “U.S. citizenship abroad”. Of course, that’s change you can believe in!
The teaching of Cook v. Tait is that the U.S. Government somehow benefits its citizens wherever they may be. That was in the era of “citizenship-based taxation”. In new era of “taxation-based citizenship”, it has become clear that the sole purpose of the citizen is to benefit the government.
The question is: why have Americans allowed this to happen? Why has there been no resistance?
"What astonishes all of my “foreign” friends is how passive, obedient and fearful US people are of their government" https://t.co/1Lfa7lI5fu
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) December 3, 2015
The above tweet references the following comment from the Maplesandbox blog.
As a former U.S. citizen, who renounced just in order to survive, as my four non-U.S. business partners gave me an ultimatum, either get rid of your U.S. citizenship, which was contaminating our totally German business and subjecting our company’s accounts to U.S. Treasury and IRS scrutiny, or you must sell your shares and leave. This all started upon the advice of our German bank, who said that they wouldn’t deal with our accounts if there was any American/’U.S. Person’ involvement? Not to mention the personal impact on my mortgage, on my bank closing all of my investment accounts and everything else that every reader here knows all too well.
What amazes me most, and also amazes all of my personal and professional friends, all of them non U.S. persons, is how obedient and conforming the organizations supposedly representing the interests of U.S. citizens abroad are. With all that has happened, and especially now, subsequent to the Senate Finance Committee’s “report” on tax reform, paying nothing but contemptuous lip service to the plight of US citizens abroad, it should be more than obvious that U.S. Citizens abroad are of absolutely no relevance for lawmakers and legislators in Washington. Yet, the attitude of all of the organizations supposedly looking out for and fighting for the rights of US citizens abroad has been to follow a very respectful path of presenting the case for change, as if they were dealing with a fair democratic system, that respects equal representation and justice. They look ridiculous, all of them! When I read that Democrats Abroad have been trying to push the “bandage” fix of ‘Same Country Exception’ for more than four years, with no result, I say that this is absolutely pathetic. When I see American Citizens Abroad sending endless delegations to Washington, year after year, and even opening an office there, only to see the interests of overseas Americans relegated to a footnote, with no action proposed n the recent Senate Financial Committee report, I would think that they should be embarrassed and ashamed, as they should be. It has taken the group Republicans Overseas over one year to formulate an intended lawsuit, which has been postponed endless times, with a “promise” to file it next week, I say that they too have not approached this in the right way. Too much damage has been done in the interim.
What astonishes all of my “foreign” friends is how passive, obedient and fearful U.S. people are of their government, especially when confronted with such outright injustice, literal extortion and destruction of their financial well being and that of their families and business partners. Even the ever law abiding Germans wouldn’t put up with any of this and they would probably, en masse, as one lawyer friend told me, simply refuse to cooperate with any of this Byzantine filing of forms and endless intrusions into their privacy and that of their families and business partners. They would collectively refuse and file class action suits against the authorities behind these injustices worthy of a fascist totalitarian regime. Perhaps the Germans understand better than the Americans what this sort of thing leads to, when a society becomes so beaten down, so subservient, so fearful of authority that it complies with the most horrific and undemocratic “laws” and is unable to unite and simply say NO, collectively. Until Americans fight to recover some form of democracy and fairness, the ravages of FATCA will be but one in a coming litany of similar such abuses. To continue believing that they are dealing with democratic institutions and that reason and fairness will prevail is nothing but a naive attitude that will lead them nowhere, as we can now see with the recent Senate Finance Committee report.
I have bolded the last paragraph of this comment. Are Americans really “so beaten down, so subservient, so fearful of authority that it complies with the most horrific and undemocratic “laws” and is unable to unite and simply say NO, collectively.”
@Polly,
>Living in America you had no other option. Do you love it there?
As I have said before I liked living in America. I never really wanted to come here but I got here by chance with work. I had planned to stay here I guess in the same way many of you guys do in other countries.
Part way through my stay in America they added the exit tax that I didn’t know about until I was trapped by it. This soured me somewhat but I had planned to stay. To protect my family we became citizens. It’s really forced if you have money and would be a covered expatriate. I couldn’t now live in the UK without substation turmoil in my finances. The UK will attack my investments just like America did my wife’s UK assets. I put the blame of the things that happened to me on the liberals and their take stuff attitude.
I saw the whole countries attitude change with Obama.
@Publius,
The UK has made noises over the years. We have been called traitors by MPs. They want to attack us with changes to the tax code. Rental income for example and now they want to limit personal exemption type stuff. Really won’t affect me because I only have pensions there and a simple bank account my wife uses for birthday gifts.
Part of getting the US passport was in preparation for something after they started making the personal exemption noises. I would never make voluntary NIC contributions for example. Too much risk.
I wish USA really did have taxation based citizenship as the term implies that since I have never paid US taxes, and never will, then I never was and never will be a US citizen!
For some, it would probably be a great thing if non-compliance resulted in loss of citizenship and passport. It would the the USA saying ‘that’s it! you’re outta here!’, and many would reply with a huge “AWESOME!”.
‘The issue is partly that one can get a “tax bill” that is based on penalties’
Yes. More on this in a moment.
‘for the failure to file international information returns that one knew nothing about.’
No, assuming you’re talking about FBAR. US Tax Court refused to take jurisdiction over an FBAR issue exactly because FBAR is in Title 31 USC instead of Title 26. Title 26 is income tax stuff.
Now, back to penalties related to income tax stuff, for example when the IRS refuses to say what position they hold to be frivolous, and the IRS contracts with ATT to block your attempts to obey instructions that the IRS wrote to you.
“Plenty of gnashing of teeth over the prospect of losing your passport.
You don’t just lose it for having a tax bill. You lose if for having the tax bill and just letting it sit there doing nothing. You have choices:
1) Pay
2) Negotiate if you can not pay. If you really can’t pay you won’t have to.
3) Get a payment plan”
4) Wait for the IRS to file a Federal Tax Lien or Notice of Intent to Levy. At that point you probably have a few days to file a Request for Collection Due Process Hearing. You’re supposed to get 30 days, but if their notice takes 20 days to reach you and your Request for CDP Hearing takes 5 days by express mail (1 day for transit and 4 days in US Customs), you really have just a few days.
During the CDP Hearing, when you ask the IRS again what the reason is for the penalties, they’re supposed to tell you. However, the IRS assumes you had an earlier hearing already, during which you were supposed to be able to ask what the reason is for the penalties, so during your CDP hearing they refuse to tell you. As far as I can tell, the IRS is almost right on this point. The IRS was supposed to send you a Notice of Deficiency and you were supposed to get 150 days to petition Tax Court and ask the IRS again what the reason was for the penalties. The IRS never sent me a Notice of Deficiency and I’m trying to find out now how to get one, but anyway, assume you get to a CDP hearing.
After the CDP hearing, the IRS is supposed to issue a Notice of Determination. Depending on how the IRS is feeling, they might issue one, four, zero, or other number of Notices of Determination. For each Notice of Determination, you get to petition Tax Court. Again you’re supposed to get 30 days but you don’t really get 30 days to petition Tax Court.
In Tax Court, you have a chance of finding out what the reason was for the penalties.
Depending on your situation, the IRS might negotiate a reduced amount of penalty, maybe even zero if you serve a subpoena for documents to prove that you complied with all their demands.
After a Tax Court ruling, the IRS might or might not obey. If the IRS negotiated some amount of penalty but collected more, you have to sue in a US District Court, by definition the one for District of Columbia if you’re a US citizen residing outside the US. If Tax Court ruled that the IRS cannot collect but 13 months later the IRS partly collects anyway, Tax Court no longer has jurisdiction to enforce their ruling (their jurisdiction ends 90 days after their ruling) and I’m trying to find out how to proceed next. If I can get a Notice of Deficiency I’ll be back in Tax Court on it anyway.
Anyway, US Tax Court has the power to rule that penalties will not be collected, if the penalties relate to income tax legislation in Title 26 USC.
Otherwise, yes you have to pay first and sue afterwards.
“If you live in Canada and want them to protect you from the IRS you probably should be a citizen of Canada.”
If that were adequate, ADCS wouldn’t need to sue, right?
“I would add that for those like my son, born in Canada, who never lived a day in the US and never had any benefit from the US, it is obscene that he and others like him are ENTRAPPED into an acquired US citizenship”
I still think he’s not trapped until his birth is registered at a US consulate, either by you before he turned 18 (which you didn’t do) or by himself after he reached 18.
I still think you can have him submit an application to the US consulate, where you print everything by computer and let your son sign or mark an X if he can, and then make sure he doesn’t bring necessary documentation to an interview, so that he’ll get a written rejection of his application to register his birth as a US citizen.
‘The IRS does have immense powers and one of them no one has mentioned is the power to generate a “substitute tax return” in cases where the IRS becomes aware an individual has failed to file anything. Such a substitute return is based on nothing but IRS speculation because in such cases they have little to go on.’
It’s supposed to be done by the IRS contacting payers. When they threatened to generate a substitute return for me, I gave them copies of my Forms 1099 and 1042-S from Ameritrade and asked them to generate whatever they want as long as they get my withholding refunded. Then they refused to generate a substitute return.
By the way I read a few days ago that some of Monica Hernandez’s cohorts were arrested in 2015.
By the way the IRS office which threatened but then refused to generate a subsitute return is the same office where Monica Hernandez was working.
@Neill
“attitude changed with Obama”
I was wondering if there was a change of attitude. I haven’t been back in America since a shortish visit in 2010. But so many of my family have voted for him and consider him a saviour and a saint. Like Robin Hood.
But maybe the truth is that american debt had hit the ceiling.
@Norman Diamond
If that were adequate, ADCS wouldn’t need to sue, right?
We’ve disagreed in the past but you raise a valid point here. The only reason why it wouldn’t be adequate is if Brockers need to travel south to be with aging parents. I’ve never been too clear which comes first for Brockers: their hatred for FATCA or their love for aging parents in the USA. But I’ve been impressed so many times with the anger that Brockers feel that I assume it is the former. For me personally I have different priorities. My love of my family in Canada always comes first. But for many Brockers it is different. Their hatred of FATCA trumps their love of family in the USA. It is common for human beings to love their mothers. But sadly Uncle Sam’s abuse of Brockers is so severe that they are unable to see clearly enough to love their mothers–if said mothers are stateside.
Aung San Suu Kyi didn’t dare to attend her husband’s funeral. So there was another soul-mate country for the US at the time, besides Eritrea. But not any more. Myanmar is reforming.
@Norman Diamond
Never heard of Myanmar. Perhaps you are referring to the SE Asia country known as Burma. In any event I’ve always had HUGE respect for Daw Aung San Suu Kyi for placing country ahead of family.
@Dash
“@Japan T
I wonder how many people are simultaneously non-IRS compliant AND living overseas with the US passport as the only passport they have/to which they are entitled.
I’m guessing the numbers would be small. It seems to be primarily people who have been living for years/decades as citizens of another country (eg Canada) who are getting bit on the butt by the IRS. But I could be wrong.”
Every single US expat I know personally is not compliant. Most are non compliant because of FBAR, so not technically nonIRS compliant but still fined enough to have their passports revoked. Remember, this IS NOT A TAX issue. Since living overseas, I have never earned anywhere near enough to owe taxes to the U.S. . It is a paperwork, reporting and fines for not doing either or both issue for most of us.
I do not have the paper in front of me, but according to the ACA, most, some 70% or more, of U.S. expats are like me and make below the FEIE amount, did/do not know of the obligation to file even they earn below this amount and know/knew nothing of FBAR and have no way to learn of it until too late.
A new acquaintance is typical yet does earn enough to owe a little tax to the U.S. in spite of FEIE. He only learned of FBAR this year when checking the Embassy’s website for the yearly exchange rate. Just learned of it despite paying an accountant Stateside for well over a decade to keep him in compliance with the IRS. His accountant had no idea of FBAR. Why should he? It is not a tax form, it doesn’t even go the the IRS.
According to the IRS TAS, overseas taxpayers trying to comply simply can not. Most of us are not compliant. According to the ACA, IRS TAS, even the numbers of FBAR filers compared to US expats shows that very, very very few of us are compliant. The numbers are a few years old but were published shortly after the new FBAR rules kicked in. 550,000 FBARS filed that year. 550,000 out of 7-8 million U.S. Persons. How can it be said that most are compliant? Especially as homelanders with accounts overseas are also required to file FBARs?
@Japan T
Have they actually been fined? Or just in a situation where they hypothetically could be?
I’ve already been investigating using tele-presence systems to visit relatives in the US without having to ever set foot there again. These systems are like Skype on steroid and they keep improving every year. Have a look at double robotics system: http://www.doublerobotics.com/ I am thinking it will not be long before we can rent various systems to ‘attend’ a funeral, reunion or rent a bi-pedal robot with a live feed of our face on it that allows us to walk around and interact as if we were there. Even further we might end up with a scenario like the film “Surrogates” where we can become a robot body for a time and it can be anywhere. Maybe border control will have to go digital, send in swat teams and shoot up our devices or make it illegal for expats to interact with American citizens via technological means. I think their malice knows no bounds.
@Neill
I do not have a TAX bill! As far as I can figure, I have a minimum $300,000 FBAR PENALTY bill. Just pay it!? That is all the money I have earned since graduating college 15 years ago.
Further, it is NOT just an issue of PAYING the bill. To clear this I just also give six years of my spouse’s (a Japanese citizen living in their homeland) financial data the Financial Crimes Network (FCN). Why don’t YOU send all your spouse’s financial data to Japan’s version of the FCN, you know,msg that they can sort through it to see that you both are in compliance with their laws and pay fines and possibly face jail time if you are not. Need I add that fact the U.S. Gov. Has an abysmal record keeping such data safe. We might as well post all our financial data on Twitter.
Just get a Japanese passport! Why I think I will just walk on down and get one. Wonder if I can get it before Jan. 1st. You know, sarcasm aside, that comment is by far the most offensive to me. You are telling me that I should either just put up with the fact that my Government is breaking the law and accept the consequences imposed upon myself and the Japanese members of my family or give up citizenship. I’m did not serve six years in the “pit” of two U.S. naval vessels to have my rights so easily violated nor to quit when they are.
How about this, the U.S. Government follow the law and leave me and my family alone!
It is important for everyone to understand I have zero interest in political posturing. I am only interested in provable facts that can be proven in the cold light of day should we ever find ourselves facing a judge in a court of law. Because we will be finding ourselves facing a judge at some point in 2016.
@Japan T
What is the actual dollars and cents amount on the latest FBAR bill you have received?
@Japan T, it will also be a tax issue for many, especially those who have locally held mutual funds which can be devastated by PFIC taxation; though far from wealthy, I wound up owing over $10,000 in PFIC taxation after I got back into compliance. That was painful, especially as it was a double tax on assets completely earned where I live. I’d been away from the U.S. for over 23 years.
As for FBAR fines, they don’t seem to be actually hitting expats with the actual fines ,though agree it’s terrifying to discover you could be subject to $300,000 in FBAR penalties…when I learnt of my FBAR issue, I was facing over $2 million in possible fines. Thankfully, I was put in the equivalent of a loud quiet disclosure in what was effectively the Streamlined program before it was officially available in the same form from summer 2014 (to now included amended returns as well as tax bills north of $1500/year)…. At the time, I considered myself most fortunate because many others in my sort of situation would have been railroaded into the harsher OVDI program, which would have bankrupted me.
If you have honestly declared all your income on your returns, you should be able to file your FBARs to FINCEN and tick that you honestly didn’t know about it…you could also enter streamlined. I don’t think your situation is as bad as you fear. 🙂
@monalisa1776
We will need stronger story here. I don’t see being hit with a $10,000 tax bill being an especially compelling story. Being forced to choose between family and country would be a strong, compelling story.
Come on folks. I’ve been supporting this effort for awhile. But you are going to need stronger stories if you want to head into a court of law before a judge. I want to hear that you folks are ready. Right now it isn’t convincing.
“Never heard of Myanmar. Perhaps you are referring to the SE Asia country known as Burma.”
“It is important for everyone to understand I have zero interest in political posturing.”
Dash1729, you don’t need to worry about fighting me. You’re too busy fighting yourself.
@Norman Diamond
You give lots of great information yet I am still confused by what seems to be a break in logic. You state that FBAR penalties are not included but then go on tell how the IRS has broken rule and law after rule and law after rule and law.
How can anyone feel comforted by a statement that a law or court decision will protect them when the statement is followed by example after example after example of how one is not protected by the law?
Pay first, sue later. How? How does someone making $40,000 with almost no time off from work and a balance of a few hundred Japanese yen in their multiple bank accounts do any of the things you have done thus far?
“You state that FBAR penalties are not included”
FBAR penalties are FBAR penalties, they are not tax penalties, and US Tax Court refused to take jurisdiction over an FBAR issue because FBAR is Title 31 USC but income tax issues are Title 26 USC.
“but then go on tell how the IRS has broken rule and law after rule and law after rule and law.”
The IRS broke many rules and laws that are part of Title 26 USC. (The IRS also broke the Privacy Act of 1974 which I think is Title 5, for which only US District Courts have jurisdiction. The DOJ also broke the Privacy Act of 1974.) I have not seen if the IRS broke Title 31.
“Pay first, sue later. How?”
US Supreme Court recognized in Flora v. US that that problem causes hardship for some people, which is exactly why you have to wait until the IRS takes certain specific kinds of actionable actions and then you have very short time limits to file petitions in US Tax Court. Tax Court is the only place where you can sue before paying, on those specific kinds of actions.
@Norman Diamond
I will go with whatever the legal name of that country is under Canadian law. I thought Canada recognized only the Burma name. If I am mistaken I will stand corrected. I am not interested in fighting anyone but at the same time I am not interested in giving my hard earned money to anyone who isn’t focused on winning in a court of law. Provable facts–not political posturing–win in that forum.