Some of you may wonder whether your private banking information was sent by your bank to Canada CRA, for subsequent turnover to the United States Internal Revenue Service — because you have some U.S. indicia.
For the few who are willing to do this, I ask that you make the above very specific request to your bank officer (see draft letter below). If your bank refuses to provide you with this information, or makes it difficult, get the name of the individual you spoke to and write down what was said and when. Best would be a refusal in writing.
I am looking for a single brave soul willing do this, which would find its way into an affidavit for our litigation.
I personally think that it is outrageous that “our” banks do not automatically notify a person if they have been reported to the CRA arm of IRS — but that is another issue.
Here is a draft letter that you could send to your bank customer service representative or simply provide this message by phone to the rep. Do NOT spend any time going to another official at the bank. A draft:
“Local Bank officer,
I am a customer at your bank and have [ ] bank accounts.
I understand that on September 30, 2015 Canada CRA turned over private banking information on 155,000 accounts to the United States Internal Revenue Service (IRS).
Some of this bank account information was provided by your bank to CRA.
Please tell me whether your bank passed on any of my banking information to CRA for the subsequent transfer of the data to the IRS.
I need this information in writing by [date].
If you are unable to comply with my request, kindly provide your reasons.
Thank you,”
Makes no difference whether you have one dollar (below so-called threshold of today) in your account or $100,000, or whether you have or do not have any U.S. indicia. A refusal is a refusal. I personally have no account greater than $50k but did ask my own bank for this information.
Refusals from the banks might be helpful in the litigation. You can reach me through the ADCS website.
Assume that your name will be made public should this be part of our litigation.
See below December 1 2015 letter I sent to Canadian Bankers Association and their (not surprising) December 2 response:
My letter:
“December 1, 2015
[XXXXXXXXXX]
Media Relations Specialist
Canadian Bankers Association
Dear Ms. [XXXXXX],
Could you please pass this email on to your legal department?
I am the Chair of an organization (Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty) that is funding a lawsuit against Canada’s Attorney General and Minister of National Revenue.
We argue that the FATCA IGA enabling legislation that your association supports violates Canada’s sovereignty as a nation and the Charter rights of Canadians.
A key component of the legislation is the transfer of private banking information, without consent, of Canadian citizens deemed by the United States to be “U.S. persons”, to Canada CRA, for subsequent turnover to U.S. IRS.
Recently it has come to my attention that some of your banks are not advising their customers, when they ask, whether their private banking information has in fact been turned over to CRA for the purpose of transfer to IRS.
I need to know whether CBA has a position on this issue.
Do you advise your banks to provide this information, upon request of the customer, or do you advise that this information must be withheld for whatever reason? Does CBA feel that such customer requests are reasonable — or not?
I am not asking whether the banks will confirm to customer whether private banking data have been passed by CRA to IRS, only whether the data have been passed by the individual bank to CRA for the purpose of transfer to IRS.
If CBA has no position on this question please confirm.
Please provide a response by end of business day December 4.
I will make public CBA’s response.
Thank you,
Stephen Kish
Chair
Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty”
CBA response:
“Dear … Kish,
Thank you for your letter.
As you know, the requirements of the FATCA IGA are included in the Income Tax Act. The Canadian Bankers Association does not provide any recommendations or direction on how to comply with these requirements.
Instead, banks rely on the technical guidance from the Canada Revenue Agency. You can find out more about the CRA guidance at the link below or contact the CRA directly.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/nhncdrprtng/gdnc-eng.html
[XXXXX]”
Thanks for that info @PrairieGirl re;
“I worked at a credit union and they updated everyone’s accounts with either birth certificates or passports. Every member had to bring in one or the other.” and,
“The credit union also made everyone sign a fatca form stating whether they were a citizen or resident of the united states.”
I was looking again at the ‘Access to Basic Banking Services Regulations’;
Access to Basic Banking Services Regulations
SOR/2003-184
BANK ACT
Registration 2003-05-29
Access to Basic Banking Services Regulations
P.C. 2003-765 2003-05-29
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2003-184/page-1.html
The “Access to Basic Banking Services Regulations” (see link above) doesn’t say anything about a birth certificate or passport as being the only mandatory acceptable ID required to open a basic account – much less any requirement to provide them retroactively for existing accts. Wondering how the credit union got away with doing that retroactively on all its accountholders – who are ALSO CU member shareholders. I belong to two credit unions – both large, both in Ontario, both not far from the US border. Neither has asked me for any ID after the fact on my pre-existing accts. One knows or should know full well that I was a US citizen because I spoke to the manager at great length about the situation when this first arose – and explained why I was going to have to dissolve my TFSA – as a ‘taxable foreign trust’ in the eyes of the US – and the incredible accounting and time costs to report (3520, 3520a, FBAR) and potential tax and penalties jeopardy that owning one entailed as long as I was also a ‘US taxable person’. I indicated my intent to renounce, but they have not asked whether I have actually done so, or for proof of same. Recently opened a new TFSA – and they did not ask for any additional information or ID.
Interesting and very creepy that your credit union did so for pre-existing accts, not just new ones.
Here is a chart of statistics quoted by Passport Canada on the numbers of Canadians holding a Canadian passport:
“Canadian Passport Possession Rate”
“The percentage of Canadians who hold a valid Canadian passport continues to climb, driven by high and growing levels of outbound travel by Canadians. In 2011, over 30 million Canadian outbound trips were made, particularly to the United States (US). Canadians made a record 1.9 million overnight trips to the US in June 2012 as new rules to increase duty-free exemptions for cross-border shopping came into effect.
As illustrated in Figure 2, since 2008, the passport possession rate has increased by 20 percent and is forecasted to reach 70 percent in 2013, which would bring the total number of valid passports in circulation to 23 million.”
Figure 2: Canadian Passport Possession RateYear Possession rate (%)
2008 50
2009 54
2010 59
2011 64
2012 67
2013 Projected 70
As illustrated in Figure 3, Ontario, British Columbia, Alberta and the Yukon represent the highest passport possession rate.
Figure 3: Passport Possession Rate by Province/TerritoryProvince/Territory Possession rate (%)
Alberta 66.97
British-Columbia 71.83
Manitoba 59.64
New Brunswick 54.18
Newfoundland and Labrador 43.98
Nova Scotia 49.97
Northwest Territories 45.18
Nunavut 17.70
Ontario 72.40
Prince Edward Island 49.23
Quebec 59.11
Saskatchewan 54.89
Yukon 65.82
I have made this comment several times in the past, but the issue keeps coming up so I will keep making it.
Annex I 2.B.3 is the paragraph in the IGA that requires banks to report accounts with indicia and states that they MAY apply one of the exceptions. Bill C-31 removed that paragraph and replaced it with:
Paragraph B(4) is where they ask for a self-certification, a CLN or a reasonable explanation.
In other words the BANKS MUST CONTACT YOU asking for a self certification, CLN or a reasonable explanation before turning your financial information over.
Most if not all of the copies of the IGA that are floating around do not contain this revised paragraph but instead contain the original text, but that is not the version that is the law in Canada.
Dear Stephen,
I am not sure how to contact the IBS at present.
I am presently writing an article about the “phenomenon” of more and more Americans residing abroad giving up their citizenship. I think we all know that the IRS numbers, even the latest ones, are FAR below the real number. Could you please contact me via email because I have some things I would like to discuss with you concerning this.
Thanks in advance,
Susan
I am contacting Susan.
@Stephen Kish…….
Thank you for everything you are doing. I hope some day that I will be able to say that to you in person.
@ Susan Harris
I’m sure you’ll get some interesting responses as you delve into this “phenomenon” of US citizenship relinquishment. I’m not a journalist so I don’t get to ask questions but if I could I would want to ask one question of the Congress and the IRS. Why don’t you stop your harassment of Americans living outside your borders? It has obviously led to increased relinquishments and that seems to concern Americans living in the USA more than your unjust and unique in the world, citizenship-based taxation system. (Biased, I know, but I don’t have to pretend to be fair and balanced.) Anyway, I’m glad Stephen Kish has contacted you Susan because he’ll be able to explain all of this much better. I’m merely trying to say it might be time to interview the perps, instead of the victims.
@ Auntie EM
I’m merely trying to say it might be time to interview the perps, instead of the victims.
Going to file this in my best quotes file.