In the comment stream, some used various pejorative terms to describe my last post: infantile, tin-foil hat etc. Others said that it was perfectly ok for the government to impose the long form census since safeguards are in place to protect the information and StatsCan has a good track record in that regard. Besides the government really needs this information in order to do a good job, and some argued, to realize how bad FATCA is.
I am hoping for a little more actual dialogue on the nature of the privacy invasion. You see, I am unsatisfied in this post 9-11, post Edward Snowden revelations, era, that the government make assurances that private information be kept private for the anonymous usages of StatsCan. My issue is whether the government fails to uphold one the deepest principles of English common law since the Magna Carta–that every person is king of their own castle (i.e., the Castle Doctrine). There are just some lines that government should not step over–and the only allowable reason for stepping over those lines is if the government suspects that a crime has been committed. But never ever may a government force people to divulge information that belongs to their private and personal life: e.g., how many hours you spend playing with your children. It is completely inappropriate for government to ask these kinds of questions.
And if the government will throw you in jail for refusing to answer these kinds of questions, how much more will they be willing to violate your Charter rights by sending your banking information to the IRS? I am not impressed with our young handsome PM’s first act. I called him King, but the fact is that in the English-speaking world, the Younger Trudeau is insisting on the power that kings have been barred from exercising for centuries by the Castle Doctrine. Thus, it is a violation of natural law, and so naturally there are many people who become extremely irate over the violation of their personal jurisdiction–as elder Trudeau said, the government has no business in our bedrooms–but the government doesn’t belong in our kitchens, our living rooms nor in our children’s rooms either.
The government insists that it needs accurate information. But truly, if the government is justified in forcing people to fill out 40-page questionnaires revealing certain details of their private lives, would it not be better to collect the information just by installing cameras into their bedrooms, living rooms, kitchens, and children’s bedrooms? In this way, direct surveillance would permit for a better picture of Canadian households and provide the necessary and most accurate information for StatsCan. Be assured however that your private information will be only for the eyes of bureaucrats who need the information.
For those who are interested, here is Elizabeth May’s recent press release regarding the return of the long term census:
http://elizabethmaymp.ca/elizabeth-may-congratulates-decision-to-reinstate-the-long-form-census/
@Whitekat………………meow meow meow. 😉
@Kitty………..I kind of like the long census versions but in this modern world do you admit to USness on anything?
In my neck of the woods and on the last census I did not provide any clue of the red white and blue.
@George,
re: “meow, meow, meow” LOL!
re: ” In my neck of the woods and on the last census I did not provide any clue of the red white and blue.”, Personally, although I will lie to my bank which I KNOW FOR CERTAIN will use that information against me, I won’t lie on the census. I think it is important for the census to reflect reality and I am willing to take the chance (slim in my opinion) that somehow the census will be used against me.
“Would these same sensitive questions lead to American-Canadians being asset stripped by the U.S.A someday? Statistics Canada would not hand over that information to the U.S.A. I’m sure”
StatsCan DID outsource that information to the U.S.A., which is exactly why someone got convicted for refusing to answer.
“The US is finding out most painfully what trusting the government means.
They voted in 2010 to stop Obama. They voted in 2014 to stop Obama.”
They voted in 2012 to keep Obama.
@All
Look the great thing about being a Canadian citizen vs a being an American citizen is if you don’t like the long form census just move away from Canada to the Bahamas or Cayman Islands where you won’t have to pay taxes or fill out the long form census.
And if as a Canadian citizen you lack the means to move from Canada to the Bahamas or Cayman Islands there is an easy solution. Work harder and earn more money.
In fact the people here complaining about the long form census remind me o’h so much of right wing homelander Americans who complain bitterly about all sorts of Obama policies but spend VERY little time fighting against CBT because it doesn’t effect “them.” They don’t like when Obama does something that hurts them i.e. Obamacare but care very little about FATCA or CBT because it effects only someone “else” who doesn’t live in the US.
For those who think that their, your, our information is safe in the hands of gov., they are as naive as a newborn babe. If service members and government officials will sell important defence information to enemy states, why would they think that people handling all this information would not sell it to domestic entities that would love to have it? All it takes is just one of the very many people whose hands it will pass through to open up your entire private lives for anyone and every one to see.
And it is not like this has never happened. How many news reports have there been in very recent years of data breaches at this bank, or that credit card company or this hospital or that government agency etc..?
It is truly frightening that people so unaware of the world we live in vote.
“Duke of Devon says
November 9, 2015 at 11:00 am
Stephen Kish. You should be concerned that the infantile tin foil hat drivel from Petros will discourage potential donors and other supporters of ADCS. Unfortunately his posts land directly below your updates and requests. He appears to be unwilling to give the new government a chance.”
Maybe someone should tell the Duke who owns this website?
@Petros “would it not be better to collect the information just by installing cameras into their bedrooms, living rooms, kitchens, and children’s bedrooms?”
Although I would (personally) rank the threat of human-induced climate change as one of the few global issues that is more threatening to us than FATCA, I would like to mention here the so-called smart meters that we are being encouraged to install in our homes. These are equivalent to the cameras Petros rhetorically suggests. They send a continuous stream of data in real time about the consumption of energy in your home to the utility companies. I have therefore repeatedly refused to allow one in my home, but do not know what one can do if one has already been installed. Move?
Although I agree that all communications should be as polite and positive as possible, I labor under no illusion that this will get one very far.
@ Whitekat
For your theory that the state has a right to your data because it needs it to be true then it must also be true that I have a right to your money because I need it.
Need is NEVER a lawful reason for taking anything that one does not have a right to.
I have not set foot in America in ten years, but last I heard, every set top cable box has a microphone, and at least at one time many had a camera in them that was under the control of the service provider. With no alert to the user that they were in use. Of course then there is the fact that every computer with a camera and mic and every cellphone can be taken over remotely for listening and viewing.
So many of you have cameras and mics in your bedrooms already.
For those that think that the state does have a right to your, my, our data, it does not. In a democracy, rights of the state are given to it by the citizens.
As you do not have the right to our personal data, the State does not have a right to it.
As I can not give you what I do not have, you can not give the state the right to have our data.
So many of you have cameras and mics in your bedrooms already.
Along with real time GPS!
It may not be (or is it?) universal but in many areas of everday and personal life we are already arrived at the destination Petros speaks of.
So, tell me again how Petros is wearing a tin foil hat?
@JapanT, I never said the state has a right to our data. You are putting words in my mouth.
@JapanT, do you pay your taxes? Do you give the state information when you do this? In your world view how do you reconcile your belief that the state has no right to your data when you do this?
@JapanT, we all give up an element of our privacy and freedoms when we live in an organized, co-operative, governed state. If you don’t like it, go live on an island somewhere. Hopefully, we can minimize the infringements on personal freedom, but you cannot do that completely and have any kind of peaceful society. I’m not thrilled either about the mandatory long census, but I look at in a cost/benefit mindset, and realize that I want those who make the policies that we ALL LIVE under, with the most reliable data possible as mistakes are costly. I feel that my personal privacy risks in THIS SITUATION are worth the benefits to be gained by EVERYONE. Yes, we must be vigilant. Yes we must pay attention and raise shit when we see our government misuing data. If I thought that privacy and freedom meant nothing I would not have put myself out there and protested visibly in public, nor spoken on the radio, nor been interviewed for several articles. nor written countless letters with my full name attached to various MPs, nor volunteered to be a plaintiff or a witness in this FATCA lawsuit.
Bottom line: my opinion is that although I might not be thrilled about it, I need to give up a little myself, for everyone (myself included) to gain more. Is this a guarantee? NO. Governments ARE CORRUPT, ours included. I have no illusions of that.
@ Whitecat
” We can agree to disagree OK.”
Not an option. While we are agreeing to disagree our data is being collected and stored and it will at some time be out there for any and all to see. Perhaps not by design, may not be tomorrow but that will be of little import once our data is in the public domain, whenever that will be.
@Andy05
“If your only concern is data security then there are other ways to assure that, among them storing and embargoing access to the raw data or the long-form returns for a certain period of time.”
There is absolutely no way to assure data security. None what-so-ever. Eventually, it will be breached. The larger the number of data sets the sweeter a target. The more detailed the data, the sweeter. Have that much data on an entire population is an irresistible plum and it will be picked and probably a hell of a lot sooner than later.
The U.S. Government has leaked my service records on two occasions that I know of. Are you not aware that someone has gotten all the data in all US Federal employees. Their is no such thing as a perfectly secure data center, nor secure anything for that matter. All it takes is just one, only one of the multitudes of faceless, nameless gov. or subcontracted private contractor employees to be bribed, extorted or pressured to open the door to all your info. Happen with the Great Wall of China, for Pete’s Sake. Or even possibly more likely, a thumb drive left on a commuter train, a pass key dropped or some other careless mistake that allows a determined organization to sneak into the system.
‘The Maginot line is impregnable.’ “This ship is unsinkable, God himself can’t sink her”. “Our census data storage system can not be breached”. Dream on. Well, no don’t… Wake up and smell the coffee.
excuse many typos in last post…was typing fast and furious.
JapanT regarding your reference to my comment from yesterday to FurioousAC: “We can agree to disagree OK, ” Not meaning to be rude, but I was having an argument with FuriousAC when I made that comment, not with you, so why are you throwing that in my face now?
Re: “Not an option”.
IT IS MY OPTION TO DISAGREE WITH ANYONE I WANT. Last time I checked, the government was not controlling my opinion.
JapanT, you never responded to my questions above. I’d love to hear your answers.
@ Whitecat
No, you wrote the following.
“So yes, these questions are intrusive, and the government might not have a right to force people to answer them, but they are of vital importance. I consider it our personal duty to answer them.”
Nonsensical. “Duty” implies force. Failure to do one’ duty results in punishment as mild as a reprimand up to death if in the military in war time in the face of the enemy. As the statements above are inconsistent, I took your post at its entirety. You list all the needs of the state to have this intrusive information and tell us that you consider it our duty to provide it. Your statement “and the government might not have a right to force people to answer them,” is the odd man out so I disregard it.
“Vital” means must have. If the information was truly vital as you say, then no government could operate without it.
@JapanT, do you pay your taxes? Do you give the state information when you do this? In your world view how do you reconcile your belief that the state has no right to your data when you do this?
Yes, of course I pay my taxes. On the tax form I must provide my name, alien registration number, address, name and address of my employers and the amounts they paid me and my bank account information so that I can receive my tax refund. All that information is required for the tax authority to collect tax and pay refunds. They do not ask what kind of residence I live in, who I live with, who owns my home how many hours I spend with my child (as if time = quality for all love!), if there are any lose tiles in the house. That is none of their business.
Governments have been around for several millennia WITHOUT this “vital” data, I am sure they can manage to get by just a little longer with out it.
No worries on the typos, auto correct is also a royal pain.
@WhiteKat
Re: “Not an option”.
IT IS MY OPTION TO DISAGREE WITH ANYONE I WANT. Last time I checked, the government was not controlling my opinion.
Not an option for those of us who do not want our data to be collected by the government.
As far as responding to you, it is 10:37 pm here in Tokyo. Dishes are yet to be done and I have been too busy to prepare for the four college classes I teach tomorrow…