UPDATE SEPTEMBER 19, 2015: SEE ALSO DISCLAIMER AND LITIGATION UPDATES.
[This post, which began in May and having over 1000 revisions and 2000 comments, is being retired from service and updates. It lived through the success of reaching a total of $500,000 in donations from our kind, dear supporters who had little money to give, the hope and disappointment with the summary trial decision, and the certainty that we are now finally moving on to the Charter trial.]
CANADIAN CHARTER TRIAL UPDATE:
— We have instructed the Arvay team to prepare for the “Constitutional-Charter” trial. This means that our focus now, as it was in the beginning of our lawsuit, is on the Charter trial.
Unless there is a new expense in the future that we have not anticipated, the monies from your donations will be sufficient to take us through the “constitutional-charter” trial in Federal Court. However, to pay other legal bills we will need additional donations from our supporters, and a request for donations will appear on another post soon.
OUR LITIGATION HISTORY:
One year ago, on August 11, 2014, Litigator Joseph Arvay filed a FATCA IGA lawsuit in Canada Federal Court on behalf of Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (en français), and all peoples.
Because of a Government delay we initiated a “summary trial”, using a portion of the arguments, which offered the possibility of preventing private banking information from being turned over to the IRS before September 30, 2015. See Alliance’s Claims, our Alliance blog, and AUGUST 4-5 SUMMARY TRIAL FILINGS in LITIGATION UPDATES.
Roy Berg advised me of his yesterday’s announcement on Twitter: https://twitter.com/RoyBerg1/status/631617817234706433
Why is he saying its good news for renouncers/relinquishes?
Phil,
http://taxinsights.ey.com/archive/archive-news/us-treasury-and-irs-2015-2016-priority-guidance-plan.aspx
So, one of the announced new international projects to be looked at.
Also: http://intltax.typepad.com/intltax_blog/2015/08/2015-2016-irs-priority-guidance-plan-international-issues.html
Part of an earlier post which may be related: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/05/08/26-u-s-code-%C2%A7877a-the-exit-tax-rules-do-you-see-them-as-applying-prospectively-or-retrospectively-or-both/, Roy A Berg, JD, LL.M (U.S. Taxation), TEP FATCA, Cure for US Place of Birth
Exhibit 1 Explanation of Reason Account Holder Does Not Possess a Certificate of Loss of Nationality Despite Having Relinquished U.S. Citizenship This is a very-well drafted suggestion for FFI’s to accept in lieu of a CLN.
I still think that Roy Berg’s indicia cure could benefit from an “other” for something even he hasn’t thought of, or which will surely arise in the future as a result of the inquisition about to fall apon all those deemed “US Person”.
Me too, bubblebustin!
We need a CBT law suit. What happened to the announcement a few weeks back that there would be a “CBT lawsuit filed inside the USA very soon”, from a separate group not affiliated with ADCS? I almost jumped off my couch when I read that and haven’t seen anything since. Its almost like a tease. I realize there may be good reason why no further announcement has been made yet but if someone could give more info from the group launching the CBT suit, that would be awesome. A CBT suit will be a huge moral booster. Who knows, maybe a CBT law suit might force the democrats to offer some type of relief for us in exchange to not follow through with a law suit. Or it might catch the attention of politicians in DC. This whole FATCA / CBT mess is like a bad dream that never ends. I keep waking up every morning hoping for some major development that will end all of this.
…or even media acknowledgement that this is a huge story — something to make it real to others besides just us. Since I started with this absurdity many years ago, I cannot reconcile that has not been the case.
Right, Phil, like we can click our heels together three times and we’re back in Kansas?
“I keep waking up every morning hoping for some major development that will end all of this.” Me, too. That’s one reason I have much respect for the people and work of the ADCS — doing real, substantive, tangible work toward this goal.
Further to a comment that I made further up the chain and a response that I received at iexpats.com
____________________________________________________________
I have done some research and see that this is indeed part of a Substantial Presence test. Formula seems to be to Add ALL days in US in last year to 1/3rd of the days in the US in the preceding year and then add 1/6 of the days in the US in the year before that and if the hash total exceeds 183 days then one is deemed to have a substantial presence (whatever the consequence of that might be). Thus (simplistically) if one does not exceed 120 days in the US in each of the last three years then one is in the clear. HOWEVER:
What does the 31 day indicator trigger ? A counting and a review of days by whom ? Does one’s data get sent to the US if one exceeds 31 days in the last year ?
Is it Morally right that the ability to open a financial account in MY country (or any other country outside the US) is now dependent on counting days of visiting the US over the last three years ? What happened to the Sovereignty and the Charter of Rights in MY country. What if EVERY country did this? Worldwide ! Will EVERY Bank in the entire world need access to some global database of travel to keep track of how many days each customer (or prospective customer) spends in each and every country in each year ? My God ! Shackles stronger than Iron. Slavery.
BTW I have never been asked any such question by any Bank ever before. This is new and is because of FATCA.
Happy Birthday Daniel Kuettel …. or at least try to make it as happy as you can in the circumstances. The consequences of FATCA / CRS / CBT etc are insane.
Phil: One of the (many) reasons I open Brock first thing every morning is the hope that one day the headline will read, “CBT is Dead”! It’ll be great when FATCA is in the grave but I won’t feel safe until CBT itself is at least 6 feet under!
Happy Birthday, Daniel. Next year your gift will be no more FATCA. I just know it.
Happy Birthday, Daniel.
For your 10-year old daughter (and her *absurd difference* in rights from those of her little brother) and for all our children: http://www.adcs-adsc.ca/. How do we explain that to our children?
@nervousinvestor.
I wonder if your FI is looking at the old rules for ex citizens who after renouncing could only spend 31 days in the US without tax implications?
Or perhaps they are looking for any excuse to refuse to service US persons.
I would have loved to donate BUT for me this blog is a incomprehnsible mess. Where is the case going to, where are you? Where ate the achievements? I only see…donate, donate! Not convinced.
That’s your choice, Corey. I’ll make another donation on behalf of those who only want the sure outcome. *Donate, donate, donate* as that is the cost of standing up for one’s rights and the freedom from consequences of extra-territorial US citizenship-based taxation.
@ Corey
If you are interested in donating to ADCS, perhaps you can find your answers at their website:
http://www.adcs-adsc.ca/
It is ADCS (Alliance for the Defense of Canadian Sovereignty) that is raising funds to challenge the implementation of FATCA in Canada. I know that this site, Isaac Brock Society, can be a bit confusing at times with so many topics and so many people inputting their comments. Keep in mind that many of the people commenting here at Brock have been doing so for many years. A lot of the conversations here are months old and are difficult to follow if you have not joined it from the beginning. I stumbled upon the website in early 2012. Many of us check the site for updates every day, some several times a day, and are participating in different conversations on the site.
I don’t know what your connection to FATCA is, whether you are directly impacted, but good luck. Hang in there. I hope you can find the heart to support the cause.
@Corey
The achievements are in the help and advice this blog has given to hundreds of affected persons not just in Canada but throughout the world.
You obviously have not taken the time to read about the ADCS lawsuit that has had a preliminary 2 days in court in order to prevent Canadians having their banking details sent to the US , with a more complete lawsuit to follow. Two very brave women are the only ones in the world so far to stand up to US hedgemony. Please take the to read first before making preconceived statements
@Corey – Thank you for looking at the site. I am NOT one of the administrators but I am a frequent commenter. You will probably get a response in due course from one of the Administrators of the site BUT … I can offer you six pence worth of comment personally.
This site has been developed by regular folks fighting for their freedom so please pardon any cosmetic arrangement of information or style which may not appear to be slick professional work. Our people are from every walk of life including University Professors, Theologians, Lawyers, Blue Collar folk, White Collar folk, Housewives, Single Moms, Retired people and so on.
This site is a Canadian web site with contributors and commenters from all over the world. Most but not all those commenters are defined as US Persons by the US even though they may now be citizens and residents of other countries including Canada, UK, France, Switzerland, Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica, Hong Kong and elsewhere. Some have renounced their US citizenship to try to end the persecution and discrimination to which they have been enduring due to their US links. I myself am NOT a US Person, am not resident in either Canada or the US, but see FATCA affecting me in my daily life in my own country.
The lead post is maintained as the one asking for contributions to the ADCS-ADSC.ca fund to aid in the Litigation in Vancouver. The links to the Litigation updates and filings are there. So too are multitudes of comments on the Litigation posted in this thread. Other threads are below or in the panel on the right. There are extensive links to Laws, Treaties, IGSs, Legal Pleadings, Expert Opinions, News Articles and so on throughout the site.
The present status of the Litigation is reported in detail …. but may be summarized I think as that Phase 1 (Summary Trial on conflict between FATCA IGA and Canadian Tax Law and existing Canada – US Tax Treaty) has been in court August 4 & 5 and the Justice is expected to give their ruling by September 13. Hopefully the Justice will find for our Plaintiffs. Our Plaintiff’s attorney is Mr. Joseph Arvay and colleagues. Whatever the Justice’s ruling turns out to be it will be immediately appealed – and hopefully the transfer of Canadian (Citizen and Residents) information to the US will be blocked by the court pending final resolution of the case. That data transfer is presently scheduled to occur sometime between Sep 15 and 30.
The next step if necessary will be the Constitutional Challenge part of the case which Claim was filed by our Attorney team last year August and on which the Govt of Canada has been dragging its feet (saying that it needs to review some 100,000 documents in the matter).
In the meantime there is a SEPARATE case (not directly related to this site though the matter is similar in effect) in Dayton Ohio in which the US DOJ has also been trying to drag its feet … but the Judge there has ordered that the case be heard on September 4. The Attorney for the Plaintiffs in this case is Mr Bopp and his Team. There are a number of US Citizen Plaintiffs resident all over the world joined in this case 9 their personal capacities as well as Senator Rand Paul in his capacity as a US Senator.
Then there are discussions re the institution of yet another case to seek to get Citizenship Based Taxation overturned.
Whilst all this is happening there has been a Human Rights Complaint against the USA re FATCA filed with the United Nations. The receipt of this Complaint has been acknowledged but the hearing has not yet been scheduled.
I can understand that a newcomer to this situation might well not understand the big picture right away …. but I hope that my little summary (as I understand it) is of value to you.
Please take the time to assimilate the information and please do help.
@Corey
I see that I made a couple typos in my last post … I am sure that you will find your way around those.
@ Corey,
Re: “Where is the case going to, where are you? Where ate the achievements?”
To learn the history of, and keep apprised of developments in, this case (where it’s come from, where it’s going and what’s being achieved) and to read documents filed by both parties in Federal Court, click on “Litigation Updates” in the Original Post of this thread or in the ADCS box at the top of Sidebar.
PS @ Corey
Sorry if I sounded abrupt…bad day.
Start on the right hand column, there are all sorts of catagories that may apply to you. Then read about the ADCS lswsuit.
Welcome.
@Corey
Thanks for your interest! Here are a few key facts:
The law firm advancing the ADCS anti-FATCA IGA suit is Farris in Vancouver.
The lead attorney is Joe Arvay. He is one of Canada’s leading constitutional litigators and has been counsel on a number of landmark cases in the Supreme Court of Canada – a court he has appeared in dozens of times.
Most recently, Joe Arvay successfully argued the Carter Case regarding physician assisted dying before the Supreme Court of Canada.
http://www.farris.com/farris-lawyers/profile/joseph-j.-arvay-q.c/
http://www.farris.com/law-news/post/joseph-j.-arvay-q.c.-to-be-honoured-with-the-2015-award-of-justice/
The case against the Canadian FATCA has already been argued in a Summary Trial in Federal Court in Vancouver earlier this month. This is the first legal action opposing FATCA to make it to court anywhere in the world. There are detailed legal documents and accounts in the links at the top of this website. This is a major – and possibly historic – achievement. This matter is expected to advance to the Supreme Court of Canada, where Joe Arvay is a well know and highly respected litigator.
The Alliance for Defence of Canadian Sovereignty is grass-roots, non profit organization who have raised almost $500,000 to engage Joe Arvay and his firm to take this matter to the Supreme Court on the basis that it violates the Charter rights of any Canadian with a US place of birth or nationality (this is gross simplification – the detailed statement of claim is available via the ADCS litigation links).
The FACTA IGA that the majority Harper Conservative buried in bill C31 was enacted in response to extortive threats and coercion by the US Treasury Department. It is the only law in recent Canadian History that singles out certain Canadians for discriminatory treatment based solely upon their place of birth, and thus violates section 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
We urge you contribute. If everyone of the estimated 500,000 Canadians affected by the FATCA simply contributed a single $1 to the defense fund, it would have met its goals long ago!
Finally there is great deal of unique and useful information on this website. This site is administered by volunteers who give very generously of their time. They are not web experts or digital marketing pros. So patience is advised!
British citizens being banned UK bank accounts because of US Terrorism Laws. Essentially the world’s banks are using a service called World Check as a compliance tool to avoid US fines – sound familiar?
Information providers like, World Check, and credit ratings agencies IMO will carry someone’s citizenship to assist bank to be compliant to FATCA in the same way they are trying to prevent terrorist opening bank accounts while at the same time wanting to avoid US Government fines.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02z7yf3
Above is the BBC podcast address. The podcast gives insight into a bank’s mentality which for US Persons being “compliance risk” have to endure a process similar as if you’re a terrorist.