UPDATE SEPTEMBER 19, 2015: SEE ALSO DISCLAIMER AND LITIGATION UPDATES.
[This post, which began in May and having over 1000 revisions and 2000 comments, is being retired from service and updates. It lived through the success of reaching a total of $500,000 in donations from our kind, dear supporters who had little money to give, the hope and disappointment with the summary trial decision, and the certainty that we are now finally moving on to the Charter trial.]
CANADIAN CHARTER TRIAL UPDATE:
— We have instructed the Arvay team to prepare for the “Constitutional-Charter” trial. This means that our focus now, as it was in the beginning of our lawsuit, is on the Charter trial.
Unless there is a new expense in the future that we have not anticipated, the monies from your donations will be sufficient to take us through the “constitutional-charter” trial in Federal Court. However, to pay other legal bills we will need additional donations from our supporters, and a request for donations will appear on another post soon.
OUR LITIGATION HISTORY:
One year ago, on August 11, 2014, Litigator Joseph Arvay filed a FATCA IGA lawsuit in Canada Federal Court on behalf of Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (en français), and all peoples.
Because of a Government delay we initiated a “summary trial”, using a portion of the arguments, which offered the possibility of preventing private banking information from being turned over to the IRS before September 30, 2015. See Alliance’s Claims, our Alliance blog, and AUGUST 4-5 SUMMARY TRIAL FILINGS in LITIGATION UPDATES.
Thanks, EmBee.
I’ve been reading too but have come to the conclusion that I am one that needs interpretation of what it may mean / will mean. I certainly did like Mr. Arvay’s calm response to Mr. Taylor:
@Calgary411
I am grateful for your last post. I am also very grateful for all concerned in this effort and especially all those standing up front and center.
I pray that God will bless all and guide us in this fight for human rights.
@EmBee
I am staggered that the Govt Lawyers have not taken our side’s submissions with the seriousness that our folks deserve. Arrogance? Incompetence ? Or a ploy to force a delay until after the evil deed is done in September? And until after the Elections in the fall?
That’s how they earn the big bucks. Make everything difficult, drag it out as long as possible, pretend only high priced lawyers can do it (everyone else is bored to death) and charge accordingly. I read most of Prof. Christians cross and it went nowhere. Long obtuse answers to incomprehensible questions. Couldn’t finish it though . My brain went dead half way through.
@ nervousinvestor
I’m inclined to think it’s all a PLOY to create a delay. This expertise thing is rather ridiculous when you consider that the MAJOR problem with the U.S. tax system is its complexity. NOBODY can ever be a 100% expert. Even the IRS doesn’t understand itself. The best of the best are often forced to guess when it comes to decoding the IRS codes.
@ Duke of Devon
My brain suffered the same fate. I started reading Mr. Wood’s part and it looked like:
MR. TAYLOR: blah, blah, blah
MR. WOOD: Yes Sir.
MR. TAYLOR: blah, blah, blah
MR. WOOD: Yes that’s correct.
And so on and so on and so on. I gave up too. Maybe there was something interesting further in but I just couldn’t get to it.
However, now I have much fuller appreciation of Mr. Arvay and his team. It must have taken a lot of time and research to become versed in both Canadian and U.S. tax law. We see this whole thing in terms of lack of fairness and the damage created by the U.S. tax system but in a court of law the focus is on the legality or not of the U.S. and Canadian governments’ actions. Toto, we aren’t in Perry Mason Land anymore. They’ve taken our privacy, our security and what should be our right to live a far less complex existence.
Professor Christians is a trooper, as usual.
As usual, we don’t know whose side Robert Wood is on. I suspect he suffers from some cognitive dissonance.
@EmBee @Bubblebustin ….. right on. Respect due to the Arvay Team, Ms Christians, The ADCS executive, the supporters (financial and in other ways) around the world … and best of the best, the Plaintiffs !
One great thing in our favour is that the multitude of tax issues have been shared and shared again. Our team has an advantage to have been following IBS for so long. Lots of stones have been overturned with millions of little tidbits relating to the injustice in all of this. The Canadian Govt can’t hold a candle to the info that has been brought forth here. I can’t see the Cons winning this no matter how much work and effort they put into it. A big lesson to be learned in putting such a disastrous bill in with a bunch of others. One day Stevie will learn that you just can’t hide in closets, in bills, under buses, or under rugs. My spirit is with all of you who will be in court very soon. I know you’ll do well.
@Ann, you are spot on in that observation. The folks at IBS and MS have had to live through all this unlike the politicians.
Stephen,
Thank you for posting “…GINNY AND GWEN’S JULY 30 2015 REPLY ARGUMENT TO GOVERNMENT”.
Everyone — take note of the common sense and powerful argument of the Arvay team to the Canadian government.
@calgary 411
I second your position in your last post.
After reading a good portion of Mr. Taylor’s cross-examination of Prof. Christians and Mr. Wood it was a treat this evening to read Ginny and Gwen’s reply argument — cogent and compelling.
Bubblebustin –
I also called the city by-law department to make sure that our protest sign measurements don’t exceed the limits allowed for signage in the city of Vancouver.
Too funny for words. So … ROTFLMAO !!!
Does this farce have an Act III? Topping Act II could prove lethal — my gut busted forever by Bubblebustin.
(PS When’re you gonna start phoning up Govt of Canada to check up on your supposed Charter rights?)
I am hyped about this but also it has been the hottest summer ever in Vancouver. I will sweat with the sign. USXCanada: is there actually a limit!
Here is a great example of how the Arvay team is already rebutting the apples and oranges arguments being put forth by the Defendants, and their witnesses, mainly staff members from the Department of Finance.
In this first section, Stephanie Smith, Senior Chief of the Tax Treaties Section of Finance Canada, attempts to justify the FATCA IGA by pointing to the development of the OECD’s CRS (Common Reporting Standard), and how the G20 countries aim to have this adopted as the single global standard for the automatic exchange of banking information between jurisdictions:
https://adcsovereignty.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/2015-07-13-motion-record-of-the-defendants-vol-1_summary-trial-1.pdf
The testimony goes on to detail how the subsequent evolution of AEOI (Automatic Exchange of Information) will require additional financial information, and will also involve not only all 28 member states of the European Union, but will eventually include the G8 and G20 countries, including Canada. The impression that the Government of Canada apparently wishes to create with this testimony is that the entire world is rapidly jumping on board such information sharing initiatives to combat tax evasion wherever it may occur.
But, unwittingly, they have set a trap to undermine their own argument by so diligently describing how, in the formative years of AEOI: “Member states committed to automatically exchange information with each other regarding the interest that non-residents receive from savings in their territory.”
The Arvay team immediately seized upon this testimony in their reply:
https://adcsovereignty.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/plaintiffs-reply-argument.pdf
By contrasting the actual residency model of AEOI/CRS with the deemed residency model of FATCA, Arvay gives lie to the Canadian Government’s inference that the IGA does not fundamentally alter the terms of the existing Canada-US tax treaty when, in fact, it does. It also creates an opening for future arguments about America’s unique practice of CBT rather than RBT, how the US will never be a signatory to the OECD plan, and how it will never make good on its empty promises of reciprocity.
Time to break out the popcorn.
Gwen and Ginny; thanks to deckerd for showing me the link, I am going to show your position to my children;
https://adcsovereignty.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/plaintiffs-reply-argument.pdf
We have all done bad and wrong things in our lives but every so often some people do certain things that is at the mountain top. Thank you and God Bless.
We need over 30,000 in 2 days. I will send in an emergency donation, but I must say, come on people! I am aware the media has been controlled by the government and most Canadian media outlets are American owned, but we need EVERYONE’S help here. This is a turning point for Canada and a way to allow the world to see how the USA is treating Canada, it’s so called “friend”. The USA has NO friends and we will fight them every step of the way! My wife is another Ginny or Gwen. She is in the exact position they are in. I will fight this for her and for everyone involved. Please donate and be part of history!
@Native Canadian
Thank you for your dedication and your cry for justice to prevail.
I will also add another (smaller than I would like) contribution to the fund. Might take a little longer to get there as I am not located in North America.
As John Lennon once sang …. Power to the People Right On.
The People however need to participate to the very best of each one’s ability … remember that many of us are retired people of humble means fighting this for our children and our grandchildren.
https://adcsovereignty.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/plaintiffs-reply-argument.pdf
Just read the plaintiffs reply and it is outstanding! Point # 6 really hammers it home.
Yes, Obama HAS united the world….. against the USA!!! https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2011/12/30/obama-has-united-the-world-in-opposition-to-bad-u-s-tax-policy/
Native Canadian and nervousinvestor,
I too will add another little bit to my August 1 donation on behalf of the *US-deemed US citizenship* children born to me in Canada.
That the exceptional US is able to have a gun to the heads of what they call other-country *foreign financial institutions* (writing their own rules for the US role in CRS / AEOI subject to their FATCA law) and to the heads of our children and grandchildren who have no choice (OPT-IN rather than OPT-OUT of the of *acquired* US citizenship and its thieving consequences for them) while Canada and the governments of other countries with residence-based taxation cower and comply against their own laws is beyond belief.
I have concerns about the argument which I would rather not publish for the monitors to read BUT this is an excellent first step. If there is Justice in Canada and a Judge who can grasp the significance of the points made by Mr Arvay …. hopefully the disclosure of information will be stopped at least pending an appeal.
The Reply Argument of the Plaintiffs is a beautiful document.
In seven pages Arvey sums up much of what I have felt inside on this matter both for Canada and the EU.
I am so glad that he brought up that a customer of a FI born in Canada but with US Parents would remain undetected. This has been a weak spot in the IGA all along but I believe the people who drafted the IGAs felt it was a bridge too far to go there.
Ginny and Gwen because of Place of Birth in the USA are being treated differently than Wilma Mapleleaf born in Halifax to two parents born in Las Vegas. That can not stand.
Arvey rightly pointed out that all records of all Canadians would need to be handed over, something we have said on these pages for a long time.
Key to all this? I think Arvey has crossed the rubicon in his understanding of the problem and he is now like us, he gets it whilst the Canadian Government and Justice Dept do not get it.
Our two plaintiffs? They are the PERFECT plaintiffs for this case, perfect.
@Calgary411, as a fellow traveler on this long and dusty road I am glad to say “that I do not feel sorry for you and your sons position.”
I do not feel sorry at all.
Instead I feel righteous anger and your sons problem needs to get fixed right along with everyone else!!
“Feeling sorry” is often an excuse for doing nothing……….
And also I have said before, if a solution is crafted for your son in Canadian Courts, US Courts or by domestic or international law, that solution will have applications that will help others. Kind of like how NASA developed the powdered drink TANG, remember that????
Anyways what should a parent/guardian be able to do prior to 18 or later on the event of disability?
Many modern countries allow individuals to renounce but provide the later ability for reacquisition.
I think for minors, the elderly and the disabled, that a parent/guardian should be able to relinquish on the individuals behalf but with the proviso USC could be easily reacquired.
Case in point with me, it has become a bear and burden to open any type of financial account for my kids!!
For me its far less of a problem as I relinquished and though I am without a CLN, I do have other documentation.
We do know that USC is not all sugar and spice, it has tremendous burdens and costs.
As a parent with the full consent of the other parent, I should be able to relinquish my childrens USC to prevent them from running afoul of FINCEN or other tax rules.
Once they reach the age of majority, they should then have the ability to register and regain their birthright. But it would be their decision as adults.
For your son, you should have the ability of protecting him by relinquishing. At some future date when you might not be the guardian, a future guardian might want to reapply so your son could regain his birthright.
I know Ireland and the UK allows this for people taking another citizenship which allows them to relinquish and then on a once only basis apply for it back.