(Adapted from Emerson – “Concord Hymn”)
The threats of Congress now unfurl
Embattled expats must defend, by
Firing the shot heard round the world!
UPDATE 23 JULY:
This is the full YouTube version.
WHEN: Tuesday, July 21, 2015-5:00 – 6:00 pm EDT
WHERE: www.Thatchannel.com – “Voters Echo”
WHAT:The Shot Heard Round the World”
“Citizenship Taxation is a CRISIS for US Persons Worldwide
WHO: Host – Bahman Yazdanfar with John Richardson, Peter W. Dunn & Trish Moon
A recent U.S. Senate Finance Committee study failed to issue any recommendations to address the intolerable treatment of the 8 million “U.S.Persons” (and their families) living abroad. One noted tax-lawyer implied that the Working Committee “is willing to state that these concerns need to be considered however,is not yet willing to say there is a crisis.”
The U.S. Senate Finance Committee response to expats: “NOT a Crisis”
Our response: “See You in Court”
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- What is CBT? (Citizenship-based Taxation)
- Why is it so difficult to to understand how CBT & FATCA reporting is not the same as RBT & CSR reporting?
- Will RBT end FATCA and the IGA’s?
**********
Tweet your questions in advance to: @CBTLawsuit
With the hashtag: #CBTLawsuit
Please share this with all your family & friends especially FB & Twitter!
While the root of the problem is citizenship-based taxation, it is FATCA that has made it unbearable. Before FATCA, compliance was fairly easy (for simple cases), as was non-compliance.
I think the USA cannot have a (compliant) diaspora and CBT and FATCA. One of those has to go. The most reasonable and modern thing to do is to eliminate CBT. FATCA, unfortunately, seems to be quite the 21st century must-have. Many countries are setting up reporting requirements for foreign accounts, at least in the EU. The thing is, these countries only burden their residents.
@EmBee @JC
“…. as in where is the authority to issue such a declaration, where a declaration of grievances may less be held up for such questioning.”
The authority could be given by as many of the 9 million with a US tattoo that would be willing to sign, no? (With allowing pseudonyms as so many live in terror of the USG which is another valid issue. Just signing their names is self incrimination.)
You both are far better wordsmiths than I could ever dream of being. Any thoughts on taking on this challenge? Does it have a modicum of merit? Our grievances have been clearly stated (SFC submission) now we need to declare our rights. (Of course they will laugh in our faces but Hell, if we could get it published, sent to the legislators and in the ethers it just may be one more entry into stimulating dialogue, exposing the absurdity and maybe, just maybe instilling a modicum of shame). A declaration of refusal to file/pay is so “over the top” in relation to the US’s power to extort it just might get some attention. Maybe the colonists also felt inept in relation to their adversary but that didn’t seem to hinder them.
We could update the Declaration of Resolves just to demonstrate the absolute parallels to the original declaration and the unmitigated hypocrisy. Then simply declare (made much more “classy” by you folks):
Because of the US’s unique form of extraterritorial taxation and FATCA now riding along to enforce it, it is impossible to financially survive as a deemed US person outside of the US borders. We do not live in your country, we receive nothing nor expect anything from the USG. Taxation is a civil responsibility not a patriotic duty.
The burden has now become so untenable that henceforth we refuse to succumb to your irrational, immoral, unjustifiable, against all universal norms methods of extraterritorial taxation. Nor will we succumb to being forced to renounce US citizenship just to avoid the perils of your unjustifiable, hypocritical laws.
There are many that do not want US citizenship. They will be sending you a letter and $100 dollars to cover the costs of your removing their names from your list.
Sincerely,
Your once loyal diaspora
@ Charl
JC and many others here are good writers (you included). They could all do “classy” but unless this needs a parody song I’m certain I’m not the right one. As you say the grievances have been stated before but they could be consolidated (someone’s probably already done that in a submission or comment somewhere) and then put into Declaration A. Then would there be?
Declaration B — Rights and Resolves (or maybe these should be separate … not sure)
Declaration C — Independence
You sure have started something … let’s stew on this some more and see where it leads. The signing by so many people would be awesome, if it can be done. Even seeing how creative people could be with their pseudonyms would be interesting (some might feel secure enough to use their real names). OTOH it could be the pseudonyms, necessary as they might be, that are the weakest link. Would this be taken seriously with them?
Right now I’m putting all my thoughts and prayers into the ADCS lawsuit but afterwards, if I can keep my energy levels up, I’ll be able to think on this more. Up until JC mentioned these other declarations (prior to the Declaration of Independence) I had never heard of such things.
And keep in mind how even our one page FATCA info pamphlet turned out to be quite a long process. Many minds made for many versions.
Another question posed awhile back on another thread: Will RBT end the need for FBAR reporting? (One would just assume so but….with our dear friends down South you can never be certain).
@Charl, “Will RBT end the need for FBAR reporting?”
I do not think so, its a different code section.
Questions For ThatChannel.com on CBT
* Why is it called citizenship based taxation when the US requires tax returns and taxes for residents in the US whether they are US citizens or not?
* Under citizenship based taxation, if you live in a relatively high tax country such as Canada, Australia, or the UK, and you have $0 income and $0 in assets in the US, aren’t you exempt from filing US tax returns and paying US tax?
* If you live in a relatively high tax country such as Canada, Australia, and the UK doesn’t the tax treaties prevent double taxation so that there would be no tax returns to the US or taxes to pay to the US?
* How does the US think it right and fair to tax residents of other countries who are US Persons as if they are resident in the US, while they are already getting taxed as residents in the countries in which they live? For instance, if you live overseas the US treats your legal retirement account in the country in which you live as “unqualified” and double taxes it as such, as if you live in the US and you have choices between qualified (401K or IRA) and unqualified retirement options, yet when you live overseas you are only allowed by your country of residence “unqualified” retirement accounts under US tax law.
* Does the FEIE represent a tax loophole or tax sinkhole for US Persons resident overseas?
* How does citizenship based taxation represent discrimination and relatively harsher compliance and harsher penalties for US Persons resident overseas compared to people living in the US?
* Under US Estate Tax rules, if your nonUS country does not have Estate Tax but cost basis tax requirements, can you credit the 40% estate tax against capital gains taxes on assets sold in your country of residence on assets to be inherited from a deceased person?
First one asked toward the beginning.
From other IBS feature, perhaps emphasis on calling cbt an Extraterritorial Tax, maybe reinforcing calling it a Unilateral Tax without Consent with emphasis that an under pinning of taxation is services in exchange for one or others in one’s community…that if you live overseas that you can not access federal government services other than those paid for with a fee.
My question: How can a married couple, where one is a US person and the other isn’t, maintain a joint bank account so that the nonUS spouse isn’t risking his money through penalties or IRS audit?
*In the case of a married couple living overseas, with death of US Person and surviving nonUS spouse, does the Marital Exemption apply on assets bequeathed to spouse?
*In the case of a married couple living overseas, with death of US Person and surviving nonUS spouse, how is the QDOT trust supposed to work when all assets are outside the US, and US financial institutions do not want to deal with persons with an overseas address?
*In the case of a married couple living overseas, with death of US Person and surviving nonUS spouse, with Marital Exemption not applying because the surviving spouse is a nonUS person, do the inheritance laws still apply for this person (all assets outside of US), where any and all debt against any assets is disregarded, and 40% tax applied against all asset value above the threshold regardless of any debt against those assets?
*In case of application of estate tax of 40% on assets, for deceased person overseas, and the resetting of the cost basis of assets by US tax law, is the cost basis of those assets reset according to Canadian, Australian or UK law?
(not in Australia! Yet another double taxation guaranteed)
*In the case of FBAR penalties, for US person living overseas, with 50% joint ownership by nonUS person spouse, are the penalties cut by 50% to reflect this reality?
*In the case of married couple living overseas, with death of US Person and surviving non US Person spouse thus Marital Exemption would not apply, if say the house was 50%/50% joint owned, does the surviving spouse have to prove that they contributed 50% into the investment of the house, else the house would then be considered 100% owned by the deceased person, and above asset threshold subject to 40% estate tax?
@EmBee
“And keep in mind how even our one page FATCA info pamphlet turned out to be quite a long process. Many minds made for many versions.”
I’m thinking a one line declaration would suffice: We are NOT filing nor paying, leave us the Hell alone. (I have a great picture for the stationary it could be written on but I can’t figure out how to post it. It won’t copy and paste….grrrr).
@ Charl
LOL … well that would work for me. Send the picture by e-mail to calgary411. She can post it.
Today’s the day for the podcast with Peter, John and Tricia. I hope many of us will be listening to it live at 6PM EDT. I’m sure we’ll get good answers for our questions.
Embee
Thank you so much for reminding everyone. However, the start time is 5:00 pm EASTERN
4:00 pm CENTRAL
3:00 pm MOUNTAIN
2:00 pm PACIFIC
This may be of interest. I was watching German TV using a VPN with a German IP address earlier. I then went on IBS and clicked on the YouTube link for ‘Shot around the world,’ and YouTube generates you can’t stream live from ‘your country – copyright issues?’.
However, Spanish, UK IP addresses worked fine. Germany is an important country can’t understand what YouTube is up to?
Sorry for the typos – but you can’t stream live from Germany it seems.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/man-24-charged-planning-terror-6109984
British Muslims arrested for planning an attack on US Military Personal in the UK. Would stolen FATCA data make that task even easier?
As data goes from administrator, data entry, IT worker, and who knows who else, what are the odds of that data remaining secure? I bet that I have a better chance being elected Pope.
@ Tricia
Oh you are right. The post says 5 to 6. I would have arrived an hour late. Thanks.
We’ll be watching…..
All I get on the youtube screen is Please Stand By. Can anyone advise? I expect it will be available later but I really wanted to watch it LIVE.
The Youtube link is NOT working. Go to http://thatchannel.com/ and watch it live there…
It is on right now..
It just came on. I’ll have to pick up what I missed later.
@ Peter, John and Tricia
Great show! My only tiny concern was that it looked liked somebody was trying to bite Peter. 🙂
@ Peter, John and Tricia
Great job guys! I only caught about the last half-hour after work but I’ll go back and watch the archived version, which is already available on YouTube and which looks 1000x better than the ThatChannel feed, for whatever reason.
Like EmBee says, it also seemed like a large black caterpillar was attacking Peter’s face, lol. I haven’t seen anything quite that scary since the facehugger in Alien 😉