(Adapted from Emerson – “Concord Hymn”)
The threats of Congress now unfurl
Embattled expats must defend, by
Firing the shot heard round the world!
UPDATE 23 JULY:
This is the full YouTube version.
WHEN: Tuesday, July 21, 2015-5:00 – 6:00 pm EDT
WHERE: www.Thatchannel.com – “Voters Echo”
WHAT:The Shot Heard Round the World”
“Citizenship Taxation is a CRISIS for US Persons Worldwide
WHO: Host – Bahman Yazdanfar with John Richardson, Peter W. Dunn & Trish Moon
A recent U.S. Senate Finance Committee study failed to issue any recommendations to address the intolerable treatment of the 8 million “U.S.Persons” (and their families) living abroad. One noted tax-lawyer implied that the Working Committee “is willing to state that these concerns need to be considered however,is not yet willing to say there is a crisis.”
The U.S. Senate Finance Committee response to expats: “NOT a Crisis”
Our response: “See You in Court”
**********
- What is CBT? (Citizenship-based Taxation)
- Why is it so difficult to to understand how CBT & FATCA reporting is not the same as RBT & CSR reporting?
- Will RBT end FATCA and the IGA’s?
**********
Tweet your questions in advance to: @CBTLawsuit
With the hashtag: #CBTLawsuit
Please share this with all your family & friends especially FB & Twitter!
I don’t understand this. Are you now planning legal action in the US? Or are you talking about the FATCA legal challenge? Whats this about?
We are using the comment to form the basis of a discussion about CBT.
Not to miss the preferred term for cbt as US Extraterritorial Taxation of US Persons living and working overseas, as even within the US the US taxes all residents whether citizens or not. Also there is hazard of evoking patriotic resistence when we say we wish to change citizenship based taxation: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/07/17/the-term-citizenship-based-taxation-seems-wrapped-in-the-u-s-flag-perhaps-the-term-needs-redefinition-for-better-discussion-with-u-s-homelanders/comment-page-2/#comment-6303803
Perhaps it is the US Senate Finance Committee who has fired a shot heard by US Persons around the world by US, when confronted by hundreds of submissions of injustices of US tax and compliance policies they do nothing.
@JC
Sorry but cannot match your “preferred term.”
This was thought out before the discussion on the other thread; our new domain names, WP blog, FB pages, Twitter account and so on, have already been chosen to meet the plans we have. And have been ative on ove the last couple of months.
The “shot” is a reference to the post on Jack Townsend’s blog.
I have been saying this is a CRISIS for a long long time.
that’s 8.7 million US persons
@Tricia I Look forward to exceptional people, backed by the IBS community, taking on CBT directly. Sounds like announcements to follow shortly.
I don’t understand this at all.
Here’s another acronym I’ve been using to try to explain FATCA’s effects to people.
I tell people to remember GRIPS. FATCA affects your Relationships (R) with Government, Institutions (financial), People and your Security.
It focuses the mind. Government (gaps between the US tax system), Institutions or Banks that all plainly obvious, People (Marriages, business partners, children etc.) and Security (some bent banker sells off your data or terrorists hack into the bank’s IT and steal it).
I also find it strange why people don’t more vocally object to the US Government stealing from their country’s tax base.
Someday a acronym or slogan will be thought up that hits the head of the nail more precisely.
@star, You and me too. I assume Tricia was responding to me and I still don’t understand.
Let’s get started!
@Neill, It’s a shame because I suspect it’s something really interesting! But if I – a very long-term, daily, reader of the IBS website – don’t get it then there’s little hope for people who are less familiar with the subject…
We are going to be discussing CBT on an online internet tv show, We thought it would be nice if people would watch it live and consider sending in some questions beforehand, as a way of participating. We are not making any specific announcements. The “shot’ however, is a reference to the end of a comment on Jack Townsend’s blog that was written in response to the lack of action on the part of the Senate Finance Committee. “See you in court’ is simply a response that many have now that it is obvious the U.S. government not only doesn’t care about expats but will continue to engage in actions that are forcing renunciation. It’s a “shot” in the sense that it represents an attack on a policy that affects expats worldwide (i.e., ’round the world”).
The US Congress doesn’t care about US ex-pats because we’re all traitors in their eyes. The US Congress is still hung up on the America is the ‘greatest place in the world to live’ or ‘most powerful country in the world’ non-sense that has long been outdated for decades as the world has recovered after WWII.
One only has to walk the streets in any major US city with all the beggars, broken down infrastructure while they’re putting up high raises with $1M+ condos so people can look down at the problematic streets below while drinking from $50 bottles of wine with dinner. The US is not the country I grew up in anymore.
On day one I knew the only way to fight FATCA was going to be in foreign courts or the Republican lawsuit in US Federal Court.
@ Tricia
That’s going to be another good show and I’m looking forward to watching it. Bahman is great at posing questions but this is a chance for others to make a question contribution.
I can’t twitter or facebook but I guess my question would be, “Other countries attempted CBT but abandoned it. Does the USA cling to this system simply because it has the monetary power and now the technology to maintain it?”
IMHO it certainly doesn’t have morality on its side … only might, mega-byte computers and a definite mean streak.
thanks Embee! Added your question to the list.
Regarding CBT:
“The war had its origins in the resistance of many Americans to taxes imposed by the British parliament, which they claimed were unconstitutional.” (ditto)
“During this time the British did not present a united front toward the American Patriots. The Parliament of Great Britain at this time was informally divided between conservative (Tory) and liberal (Whig) factions. The Whigs generally favoured lenient treatment of the colonists short of independence while the Tories staunchly upheld the rights of Parliament.” (ditto in reverse)
“They formed a Continental Congress to coordinate their resistance, and set up committees and conventions (we have the committees and conventions) which effectively seized power from the royal governments.” (How does one effectively seize power? Is that simply a mindset?)
“In July 1776, the Continental Congress formally declared independence.” (Instead of “asking” for independence we should be “declaring” independence).
In reality, what would the USG do if 9 million people declared; We will no longer be unjustly and immorally taxed by a nation we do not live in, period. (Maybe a grand display of dumping Starbucks coffee beans simultaneously in: Lake Ontario, the Thames River, the Loire, River Murray etc. would add a powerful dimension at exposing this unmitigated hypocrisy).
My question is (as like Embee I am a tweetie moron):
What is the current rationale justifying the US’s unique practice of extraterritorial based taxation? Is there a vehicle available for demanding each US legislator, including the president, to answer this very simple question?
“In reality, what would the USG do if 9 million people declared; We will no longer be unjustly and immorally taxed by a nation we do not live in, period.”
Bingo Charl! Defiance worked in 1776 so why not now?
@Charl @EmBee I believe the history of it all started with a Declaration of Grievances and Resolves, which then the Colonists felt was ignored then a later step was a Declaration of Independence. I believe we are at the step of a Declaration of Grievances and Resolves that should have a lot of thought put into it and be comprehensive and issued with no doubt that it is reminiscent of the American original.
@ JC
Fascinating. I found a Declaration of Rights and Grievances (1774) and there also seems to be a Declaration of Rights made in 1765. We certainly have plenty of grievances and it’s high time we exert more pressure for our rights. Blaze (Lynne Swanson) rewrote the Declaration of Independence for us last year:
http://maplesandbox.ca/2014/declaration-of-independence-july-4-2014/
@EmBee I think that Declaration by Lynne Swanson is great, yet seems a bit cart before the horse, as in where is the authority to issue such a declaration, where a declaration of grievances may less be held up for such questioning.
You got me. I must be a product of the American education system. I think what could be produced might be more along the lines of The Declaration and Resolves of the First Continental Congress – as it has some detail on injustices. Instead of three documents (incl the other two you mention) just one would suffice and I like “Grievances” thus “Grievances and Resolves.”
The American colonists at least got tea from their tax oppressors. Should the US government recognize the iniquity of their current policy and send each US expat a box of tea? I want my fair share (and make it Earl Gray, please)
Well I’m only 9 miles from the Boston Tea Party ship as I stand. It’s the ultimate symbol. I suspect Logan Airport is going to be my departure soon back to the free world.
I have just read through the Declaration of Resolves we could easily rework this.
“Whereas, since the close of the last war, the British parliament, claiming a power, of right, to bind the people of America by statutes in all cases whatsoever, hath, in some acts, expressly imposed taxes on them, and in others, under various presence’s, but in fact for the purpose of raising a revenue, hath imposed rates and duties payable in these colonies, established a board of commissioners, with unconstitutional powers, and extended the jurisdiction of courts of admiralty, not only for collecting the said duties, but for the trial of causes merely arising within the body of a county.”
“Before this document was released the goal of the Continental Congress was to discuss grievances, however after the publication American opinion turned from wanting respect and recognition from the crown, to wanting to become separate from the mother country.”
I think we are past the phase of wanting respect and recognition from the “crown”. That was made clear by the latest SFC decisions. We have discussed the grievances, they were ignored.
A sampling of the first three resolves:
Resolved, N. C. D. 1. That they are entitled to life, liberty, and property, and they have never ceded to any sovereign power whatever a right to dispose of either without their consent.
Resolved, N.C.D. 2. That our ancestors, who first settled these colonies, were at the time of their emigration from the mother country, entitled to all the rights, liberties, and immunities of free and natural- born subjects, within the realm of England.
Resolved, N.C.D. 3. That by such emigration they by no means forfeited, surrendered, or lost any of those rights, but that they were, and their descendants now are, entitled to the exercise and enjoyment of all such of them, as their local and other circumstances enable them to exercise and enjoy.
There are 10 in total that just require a bit of rewording:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_and_Resolves_of_the_First_Continental_Congress