Thanks to comment on Brock from *Johnson*. Good find by Johnson, but merely a mention of individual expat submissions from the Senate International Tax Reform Committee.
The Senate International Tax Reform report is out.
It’s 82 pages all about corporate taxes until the final paragraph where they acknowledge receiving a large number of submissions from US expatriates regarding individual international tax issues. But they aren’t going to do anything about it.
In skimming through this, I see that there is reference to individual taxation issues (what is presently in place, I think).
This is what the final section, the one we’re most interested in, says (and doesn’t say):
F. Overseas Americans
According to working group submissions, there are currently 7.6 million American citizens living outside of the United States. Of the 347 submissions made to the international working group, nearly three-quarters dealt with the international taxation of individuals, mainly focusing on citizenship-based taxation, the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA), and the Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR).
While the co-chairs were not able to produce a comprehensive plan to overhaul the taxation of individual Americans living overseas within the time-constraints placed on the working group, the co-chairs urge the Chairman and Ranking Member to carefully consider the concerns articulated in the submissions moving forward.
Each submission probably represents tens of thousands of US citizens who are either ignorant of US tax law, or fear being exposed. You’d think someone like Jack Townsend would know that.
The fact that out of 300 million Americans–homelanders and non-residents–only a few hundred submitted letters to the SFC on any or all topics just demonstrates one or more of the following:
1) The entire exercise was poorly publicized;
2) People are too jaded to think it would make a difference
3) Those with the strongest grievances (such as those of us here) often have some minor misdemeanors to hide and thus don’t want to out ourselves
4) People are simply apathetic, always waiting for someone else to do the heavy lifting
5) The organized efforts to encourage submissions were pretty much limited to IBS and the Facebook AE group. The fact that the AE group claims over 1500 members (and I have no idea how many views IBS gets), yet only a fraction of that number was motivated to write, simply proves my points 1-4.
The US civil rights movement spent years as a leaderless, grass-roots movement, but only gained attention and effectiveness when charismatic leaders stepped to the fore. We don’t have that yet. I’d love to see the expat equivalent of Martin Luther King Jr. who can inspire a mass civil disobedience movement. If tens or hundreds of thousands of us simply refused to file 1040s and FBARs, but instead sent in blank sheets with a rallying slogan, that might get us the attention we need. Imagine the news value of 100,000 blank 1040s and 2555s (to make sure they know that the action refers to expat taxes) being received in protest from abroad. But US persons abroad are unlikely to go out on a limb and take the legal and financial beatings that civil rights marchers were willing to take on their bodies.
We’re still at that leaderless stage that hasn’t yet coalesced into a movement. Though I think perhaps the anti-CBT lawsuit could potentially become the rallying point for US persons around the globe. The ADCS suit is great, but still too Canada-focused. The anti-FATCA suit, if it ever happens, may be viewed as too tied in with Republican politics to really catch fire among expats. But the CBT lawsuit, filed in US courts, could be the thing that sparks the flame. It’s key to every one of our issues, whether expat or accidental, dual citizen or mono-citizen abroad like me.
“If tens or hundreds of thousands of us simply refused to file 1040s and FBARs”
Weren’t millions already doing exactly that? Out of 8 million diaspora, surely less than 1 million were even trying to comply?
“If tens or hundreds of thousands of us simply refused to file 1040s and FBARs, but instead sent in blank sheets with a rallying slogan, that might get us the attention we need.”
That would be worse. Instead of trumped-up charges of frivolousness, that really would be frivolousness. Instead of plausible deniability, that would show wilfulness. Don’t do it that way.
“Imagine the news value of 100,000 blank 1040s and 2555s (to make sure they know that the action refers to expat taxes) being received in protest from abroad.”
News yes, value no. Homelanders already thought we were all tax evaders, and now they’ll think so even more.
They do not want us, and we’re better off without them.
“I’d love to see the expat equivalent of Martin Luther King Jr.”
We have a Rosa Parks, don’t we? And we have a few brave tax lawyers/journalists in the US who try to get the word out, but that’s all they can do, get the word out.
If civil rights demonstrations had been held by US expatriates in Liberia instead of US residents, they wouldn’t have got anywhere. That’s our situation too, we won’t get anywhere. The only way out is the exit.
Great points, Barbara.
It also might help us to look at the public opinion forces that brought about the amnesty offered to Vietnam draft evaders in the ’70’s. Considering the treatment we’ve gotten it’s hard to imagine that the US government did what it did for far fewer people in what was then a much less globalized world. Is it any less controversial for the US to forgive the seriousness of draft evasion by those living in other countries than it would to change direction on policies that are forcing thousands of Americans to renounce US citizenship? I think not.
We need a Mohammed Ali and a president who also understands that “reconciliation calls for an act of mercy to bind the nation’s wounds and to heal the scars of divisiveness.’”
The only good thing about the report is that it clearly states that expats are complaining about CBT, FATCA and FBAR. That puts all three on the radar screen as targets for change.
Other than that, I think Uncle Sam will only take expats serious when faced with multiple lawsuits and an embarrassingly high number of renunciations.
Victoria & Barbara & Bubblebustin –
Rumble? … Movement? … Force? …
Like that attempt at a demo in Toronto way back when, with a handful of “protesters” tippytoeing straight to the edge of the curb almost before they were told to?
ROTFLMAO !!!
@usxcanada
Where were you that day?
We can always immolate ourselves on the Whitehouse lawn. You first 🙂
Victoria: I’m so glad you’ve had some personal good news!
As for the bad news from the SFC, are you still in communication with ACA? They should have a copy of your powerful, tell-it-like-it-is statements about talking “nicely to the Big People in Washington” and listening to the treacherous little voice that tells us that if we just write enough reports, distribute enough issues sheets, wear our shoes out walking the halls of Congress and write We Really REALLY Want Residence-based Taxation 100,000 times on a blackboard while professing our undying love and loyalty to the United States of America we will one day be worthy of someone’s attention.”
As you have stated so eloquently, the time for “nice” is over. If the USG wants messy lawsuits digging its grave then its time to start digging.
@Victoria
Congratulations! I have quite a few friends who have had breast cancer and are doing just fine today! “The Emperor of all Maladies” was a good documentary on the topic.
I never was a business woman and never considered myself very good at making money- but who is running America? Is anybody counting? I just realised that a friend of mine bought a holiday condo in Florida, and she can`t go back there now because she has used up her 3 months or so of time she is allowed to be there. Most places go by the 6 month minus one day rule. Just imagine how much revenue is lost- tourists who can`t go to their vacation home in America because they are only allowed 3 months presence. It is just a hodgepodge of mismanagement.
Polly,
Those like your friend have the option of filing U.S. Form 8840, Closer Connection Exemption Statement for Aliens, as explained on the Canadian Snowbirds site, among other places: http://www.snowbirds.org/tax-forms.
@bubblebustin
Re: USX, Absolutely hilarious!!!
@Muzzlednomore, Oh yes I still have contact with AARO and ACA folks many of whom I personally admire and like very much. I’m also a member of AAWE and very happy to be a part of that org.
But I don’t agree with their strategy because I think it is outdated and unlikely to work in the 21st century. Yes, they won victories in the past with letter writing campaigns and lobbying (and even some demonstrations in London in favor of the right of Americans abroad to vote in US elections). They also had good contacts and working relationships with people in the State Department and other government agencies pre-911. I was told by one contact that those connections were greatly reduced after 911. Is that the reason that their quiet lobbying has not been fruitful? Perhaps. But surely the “Americans abroad as ambassadors” which they have used for decades no longer has the same resonance as it did.
These organizations themselves have had some difficulty dealing with the Internet age. There is so much they could do to connect Americans abroad around the globe and better ways of spreading information and rallying people behind their causes. But they don’t take advantage of them. They seem stuck with the same tools they’ve been using for years: letters, position papers, lobbying. Why, I am not entirely sure, but I think that they are so comfortable with the way they’ve been doing business for so long that it would take a revolution to effect any change.
@Calgary
So that means you can stay longer than the 3 months allowed?
It would seem way too risky to me.
Here are links at Brock regarding how to safely be a snowbird in the US. It is possible, but one must be aware of all the now better-enforced time regulations enforced with data collected at the border and US forms tax forms required.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/rrsps-rdsps-resps-tfsas/
Snowbirds
New Streamlined Program: Part 1 – The Canadian Snowbird Dilemma
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/11/22/kiwiv-and-royberg1-explains-how-cdn-snowbirds-can-be-subject-to-cdn-departure-tax-and-irs-taxes-fbar-and-fatca/
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/04/07/canadian-snowbirds-dont-be-sitting-ducks-for-the-irs/
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2011/12/29/fatca-it-will-adversely-affect-snowbird-and-other-canadian-investment-in-florida-arizona-and-other-usa-winter-retreats/
How Canadian Snowbirds can be Subject to Canadian Departure Tax and IRS taxes, FBAR and FATCA
Another Chapter in the Canadian Snowbird Saga
National Post Offers Some Good Sense Advice to Snowbirds
Canadian Snowbirds Could Face US Tax Servitude
Polly,
another from this year: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadian-snowbirds-rules-you-need-to-know-1.2925513
@usxcanada, re “ROTFLMAO !!!”
Connections were born and solidified out of those events, and created further very fruitful action and bonds. It had an effect in that people were willing to come forward publicly – even if only a few. Readers at IBS saw proof of other real ordinary people who made the effort to travel and came out to try to do something. Maybe it didn’t meet your high benchmark criteria for effective protest, but at least give credit for the other effects which moved this forward. Some things can’t be quantified by weight in numbers.
@Bubblebustin; re your rejoinder,
ROTFLMAO !!!
???
Rich and American? Australia wants you
Reuters
July 13, 2015, 7:20 am
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By Swati Pandey
SYDNEY (Reuters) – Flush with the success of a millionaire visa programme to attract wealthy Chinese, Australia is now promising citizenship to rich Americans who are willing to bring their cash and entrepreneurial talent Down Under.
But there’s a rather large catch: participants in the invitation-only Premium Investment Visa scheme will need to invest A$15 million (7 million pounds) for the privilege of becoming an Aussie.
Launched earlier this month but not widely publicised, the scheme’s investment requirements easily top the existing two-year-old Significant Investor Visa (SIV) programme, which asks for a A$5 million commitment and has been especially popular with Chinese migrants.
Investment advisors who have been briefed on the plan by government officials expressed doubts about the wisdom of targeting Americans, with several telling Reuters the more obvious place to start was Australia’s Asian neighbours.
After all, why would a successful U.S. entrepreneur want to invest a large chunk of cash in Australia – a country very similar to the United States, just further away from everything – in exchange for a passport that carries few additional benefits to their own?
“The U.S. has some problems that Australia doesn’t have. It’s got a lot more racial crimes, it’s got a lot more gun-related crimes, but I don’t think that is going to drive a whole bunch of ultra-rich Americans out of their country,” said Bill Fuggle, a partner at law firm Baker & McKenzie who advises wealthy Chinese migrating to Australia.
The programme, which does not have any residency requirement, allows would-be migrants to invest pretty much anywhere except housing. In comparison, Significant Investor Visa holders must put at least 40 percent of their A$5 million investments in risky small-cap and venture capital funds, and be an Australian resident for 40 days a year for four years.
NOT ABOUT MONEY
The Australian Trade Commission (Austrade) revealed for the first time that the programme would begin in the United States, Australia’s top two-way investment market, before expanding to other major investment markets such as the United Kingdom.
Despite the hefty investment requirement, officials say it’s not about the money. It’s about attracting the best and brightest entrepreneurial talent from around the globe, and from America in particular.
“The United States … is a natural place to target the kinds of entrepreneurial skills and talents we need to cultivate further in Australia,” Austrade told Reuters in an email.
U.S. “innovators” would help to build links between Australians and “entrepreneurial hubs” such as Silicon Valley, Los Angeles and Boston, it added.
“Australia has long been a place of innovative ideas, research and development, but has often lacked the capital, depth of entrepreneurial talent or scale to commercialise our ideas successfully,” Austrade said.
Australia’s national science agency, the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation (CSIRO), boasts inventions such as WiFi, high-nutrient grains and a new way of making plastics that is already the basis of more than 200 patents. But it often struggles to bring its ideas to market due to a lack of venture capital.
For the fourth consecutive year, Australia made the Top 10 global destinations for foreign direct investment in 2014, according to the UN Conference on Trade and Development. It ranked 8th, one ahead of the UK, and is one of only four developed countries in the Top 10.
Tax experts said that while there were no major tax advantages for Americans in Australia, the depreciating Aussie dollar and the country’s proximity to emerging markets like Indonesia and China could help to attract U.S. talent.
Another recent area of heightened U.S. interest in Australia is the stock market, which is being eyed as a fundraising vehicle for venture capital-shy U.S. tech start-ups after the successful listing of San Francisco-based online recruiter 1-page in October.
Apple Inc co-founder Steve Wozniak is the most famous U.S. entrepreneurial talent to take up Australian residency, after his son married an Australian and migrated to Sydney.
“No country is perfect, but I like a lot of things about this place,” he told the Australian Financial Review newspaper in December. Wozniak declined to be interviewed for this story.
CHINA RISING
More than 90 percent of the roughly 3,000 applicants for Significant Investor Visas are Chinese who wish to move to Australia for a better lifestyle or to avoid a sweeping corruption crackdown at home.
Americans hardly figure among those being granted SIVs, fuelling doubts about how many will be interested in a “premium” visa.
“America and Australia are very similar countries. You could move from San Francisco to Sydney and it would be almost the same life,” Baker & McKenzie’s Fuggle said.
“So we are much more likely to get ultra-high net-worth Chinese entrepreneurs than Silicon Valley Americans.”
(Writing by Stephen Coates; Editing by Simon Cameron-Moore)
https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/28769564/rich-and-american-australia-wants-you/
I am trying to find any info re the SFC report on ACA ?
Went through 2,002 of 11,396 on https://www.facebook.com/FoxNews
One more
Donna Duval Will you repeal fatca which is hurting US citizens living overseas and reform the tax code by implementing residence based taxation instead of the current citizen based taxation to stop the drastic stream of renunciations?
JakDac,
Perhaps ask on the ACA contact page: https://americansabroad.org/contact-us/.
Already sent them multiple emails
Thanks for doing that and reporting as you see new references, JakDac.
I don’t know where else to post this, so may as well be this thread. Though I’m coming over to the side advocating lawsuits as the only remaining resort, I’m still eager to see the issues made more public. That said…
Is any Brocker resident of Oxfordshire in England? If so, I wonder whether he or she might try to make personal contact with Bernie Sanders’s brother, who lives and is politically active there, and must surely be cognizant of issues of CBT, FATCA, etc. Perhaps he might be influenced to persuade his brother to take a public stand (the right public stand) on these issues, and hence garner the support and votes of untold numbers of expats. If I was in England, I’d be calling up Larry Sanders and promising to donate to his brother’s campaign if he (Larry) will meet me for tea.
I know my emails to Sanders are dust in the wind. But his brother’s letters might actually be read.
I’m not even saying that Sanders, if elected, would even take action. But in the short term I’m just thinking of ways to force the issue into the forefront and get it written about in the news media. Bernie Sanders might just be honest enough to recognize the injustices of CBT and bring them up as part of his professed campaign to “help the middle class” (which we mostly are). Sanders certainly isn’t beholden to the Obama/Clinton wing of the party.
http://www.greenoxfordshire.com/oxford_west_and_abingdon2015
@Victoria, if “..the “Americans abroad as ambassadors” which they have used for decades no longer has the same resonance as it did..” , then what carrot or incentive can ACA, AARO, FAWCO, etc. possibly offer to motivate the US government to stop their abuse of those deemed US citizens and USpersons outside the US? Moral suasion isn’t working either – there appears to be no concern for ethical and fair or just treatment of those ‘abroad’.
If there is no carrot, and no conscience to appeal to, then that leaves us with only the stick option.