I had a couple of my posts taken down by Keith Redmond at the American Expatriates Facebook Group.
The first made use of Lebron James comment, ‘I’m the best player in the world’.
I wrote, “Mirror Mirror on the wall, who is the best basketball player of them all?” Keith Redmond, the co-administrator of the Facebook group asked me what relevance it had to the group and I said it is analogous to American exceptionalism, “Mirror, Mirror on the wall, who is the most exceptional of them all?” It is really about the National Narcissistic Personality Disorder from which Americans suffer as a nation. It leads to the USA unilaterally imposing FATCA on the rest of the world as so beautifully captured in this video, which is still the best explanation of FATCA ever:
The second censored post reported on the State Department’s denunciation of Dominican Republic citing the United Nations human rights provisions. I said the USA was hypocritical because it violates the human rights of its own expats.
Then as Deedee Gierow, the Democrats Abroad co-administrator of the American Expatriates Facebook group, posted that she was sick and tired of all the bashing of the USA and that she, Keith and others were working very hard to lobby Washington (Facebook link). This solicited a discussion in which Redmond and Gierow heroically defended the purpose of the group and that they would henceforth delete any America-bashing content.
The American Expatriates group’s mission is to inform, educate, and provide the most up to date information regarding United States government policies affecting the lives of Americans living overseas. It is extremely important to mitigate the misconceptions about Americans living outside the United States vis-à-vis the public at large
It remains unclear to me how it is possible to have a group which discusses Citizenship Based Taxation and FATCA from an expat’s perspective without being anti-American. This is the conundrum–either the content is irrelevant (e.g., cookie recipes) or it is anti-American–e.g., discussions of the lives that are being ruined by FATCA and CBT. How do you stand by and allow innocent people to be destroyed by a foreign government and say positive things about that government?
There was some back and forth between myself and some of the other active members of the group, in which I learned that I am argumentative and offensive. Really? That really surprised me.
My third censored post was a comment: if we can’t really complain about how the USA is treating us, then we are supposed to be like a battered spouse, who quietly accepts abuse, and so I posted a link to the following page and suggested the situation was comparable to spousal abuse: Intimate Partner Violence Dynamics.
It seemed like Expat Forum deja vu, when I concluded that a censored forum is an oxymoron. So later when I suggested that some people would indeed leave the group because it wasn’t a safe place anymore, Redmond told me to leave. So I suppose my days are numbered.
I guess that is all I can write for now. My knee is bothering me and it is hard to stand up at my desk. In any case, it is good that some people are trying to lobby the US government, but I have no faith that that will change anything. So perhaps my cynicism and pessimism is not welcome in best of all worlds–but certainly not on certain “forums”. Cheers to you all.
@The_Animal
In defence of my wife, and of my way of life, I will pick up arms if that is what it takes, and make my stand with you.
@ShadowRaider
Then how about the US of A let their expatriates go without exacting their pound of flesh beforehand? Oh yeah…it’s because of the money. ~dripping sarcasm~
“Michael Kirsch cleverly pointed out the inconsistency of identifying yourself as part of US society while requesting to be taxed as someone from outside that society.”
The only inconsistency here is where the USA pulls this kind of bullshit, while virtually no other nation does in kind, aside from Eritrea, and then tries to justify it, as though they’re the shining beacon of hope, and freedom, in a dark, dark world.
Yeah, man! Freedom, and the audacity of hope!
Pffft! Makes me want to burn the damn flag with impunity.
@Shadow Raider
You’re right that some “homelanders” accuse people who are complaining about FATCA or renouncing US citizenship of tax evasion, but that’s different. What I’m trying to say is that there is no preconceived notion against Americans abroad in the minds of the US population. They don’t think that moving abroad is unpatriotic.
That I believe. I grew up, served in the navy and went to college in the States. When planning any of my trips to Japan I got nothing but support from family and friends. When I returned to Japan this time I never expected to marry, buy a home and start a family here.
However, once overseas even the slightest criticism of any U.S. policy is met with negative feedback of various intensity from homelanders. “Gone native, I see.” “Boy, you really have turned Japanese, haven’t you?”, “I think someone has been eating too much rice,”, “You have spent too much time over there”, “Why do you hate your own country so much?”. Then add taxes to the conversation, who hoo how the name calling escalates.
There is, I’m sure, some theory to explain it, some psychological phenomenon, but there seems to be a natural human response that one is not a true member of a group unless they share a common misery. Everyone in the States hates doing their taxes and there seems to be a certain amount of jealousy towards anyone who escapes this obligation, a belief that those who do not have to suffer this yearly headache are not true members of Club USA. This has been expressed directly to me by at least one homelander, “See, you have to too!”, and indirectly by many. And this was even before FATCA.
“There are only two certainties in life, death and taxes.” In the homelanders mind, the U.S. Expat is escaping the second of these. The fact that we pay taxes in the countries of our residence is of no matter to them, it is outside the homelander and thus the American experience. Again, this was before FATCA.
You would be surprised at the large number of homelanders, even from within my own family, who are enraged that my wife, Japanese and living in Japan, does not pay US income taxes. Why should she, in their view? She works for an “American” company in Japan. And this too came before FATCA.
THIS is what pisses me the fucking hell off about “homelanders”. They seem to think that they have a god-given right to everyone’s money. That infuriates the hell out of me – the IRS thinks that just because my Texas-born wife makes a Canadian income that they have the right to nose their long nosy beaks into MY accounts (especially if my wife’s account is joint with mine. My wife can’t wait to get the hell out of the US yoke and the United States can go Fuck themselves.
Of course Homelanders love Obama (from hereonin, I’m going to refer to him as Odumbass! – so sue me), they seem to think that he’s their crusader against those “criminal tax evaders”. Their rationalization is that “Oh…we defend the free world – so everyone should be paying taxes to us.”
Well, nobody asked them to stick their damned noses into every damned pisspot conflict going on around the world.
“Everyone in the States hates doing their taxes and there seems to be a certain amount of jealousy towards anyone who escapes this obligation”
For those of us who didn’t escape the obligation, it was worse. 99% of expatriate US citizens owe zero in US tax because the amount of tax in our country of residence exceeds what the amount of US tax would have been. Nonetheless we have to “do our taxes” (sometimes to three or more jurisdictions) and try to write forms that 99% of homelanders never see, going through incredibly complicated self-contradictory sets of instructions to compute those zeroes. Of course the other 1% of expatriate US citizens owe nonzero amounts of US tax, and some of them cheat, so they’re the ones who yield all those news articles that the 99% get blamed for.
And then it turns out, if we tell the truth on those incredibly complicated self-contradictory sets of instructions, we get penalized. If our situation makes it hard for us to figure out, then our situation makes it hard for IRS employees to figure out too, so we get penalized. I’d say the solution is to lie, because the IRS actually ordered me to lie on several refiled returns (which was the trigger point in persuading me to renounce), and the IRS accepted those refiled returns with known lies. But some US laws and some US circuit courts make it illegal to lie too, so there’s no solution.
Next, even when the IRS accepted the perjured refilings that they compelled, they still kept the withholding that Monica Hernandez stole, and they still penalized me.
Next, as mentioned before, courts dismiss cases like this without even letting victims obtain the IRS’s corrupted records. Big mistake, filing returns that the law required. Big mistake, telling the truth on them.
The IRS’s report to Congress in 2011 was absolutely right, all they do is screw us over and over and over.
I told a US consular employee “You know the jurat at the bottom of Form 1040 declaring that the attached forms and schedules are true and correct? I used to write explanations of known problems instead of committing perjury.” The consular employee interrupted me at that point, saying “Good.” I continued, “I get penalized for it.” The consular employee was speechless. You should have seen the look on her face. I think that was the moment she understood why she had just finished accepting my renunciation.
I share the same sentiment in part, where homelanders have expressed their self righteous indignation at me over how my Canadian wife, whom lives in Canada, doesn’t pay US taxes. It never mattered when I asked why she should pay into a system that she derives no benefit from, and is not even a part of. They didn’t want to hear that, either.
In the end, there is no rational discourse to be had on the topic, so I was best served simply by telling the selfish ingrates to piss off. It is perfectly logical to them, that any foreigner, no matter how tenuously connected to a US person, must pay their blood tithe to the US government. It is that ‘shared misery’ thing, for sure, and in that culture, that shared misery is defined by filing 1040s, and paying taxes. If you’re not doing that, then you are in no uncertain terms an outsider, and not a member of the club.
Also, in that club, your shared misery is even more important than family. That was when my ‘shared misery’ obligations became in direct conflict with my obligations to my spouse. You see, she never wanted to live in America, and she had no aspirations of wanting to be a US citizen. Also, since she has MS, and it is now in a pretty advanced state, it is clearly not in her best interest from a medical standpoint, to emigrate to the US. Therefore, if she never wanted to be a member of that club, then why should she pay for the privilege of being a non-member? So, I file ‘married filing separately’, and put her down as an NRA.
Now FATCA comes around, and from what I learned of it by myself, and from many others, especially from the good people here on this forum, there is no way I can have a normal financial relationship with my wife with that in place, and I felt a deep sense of resentment from this unwarranted interference to my marriage from my government. That was when I came to the realization that my US citizenship itself was going to become a major problem in the future, because of the conflict between my marital obligations, and my obligations to the US.
My wife is one of the 99% who owe absolutely ZERO US taxes. And I’m not paying $2000.00 every single fucking year to pay for an accountant to do her taxes for her. She pays Canadian taxes…END OF STORY. And the US (Gimme States) of America can go FUCK THEMSELVES!!! Understand that? Norm?
Some of those idiot homelanders even went so far as to say, “Just divorce your wife, and live together!”
Hello, people! You can’t fucking do THAT!!! I was not about to go and live with her illegally in Canada, because there was no way I could immigrate without a valid marriage!
“But, but, but, why not just sneak her into America?”
I can’t believe Americans are really this fucking dense! (Facepalm)
“Understand that? Norm?”
Um, The_Animal, are you asking if I understood my own writing? I just took another look at it and it seems to correlate pretty well with what you wrote, so I think I understood it.
Or are you asking another Norm? When I lived in Toronto I was one of two Norman Diamonds in the phone book. When I lived in Waterloo and worked in Guelph, the phone book had another Norman Diamond who lived in Guelph, who I never met, but I’d guess he probably got phone calls from people expecting to talk to me.
(Also the Canadian income tax department sent me forms intended for a different Norman Diamond.)
@Publius
Re: ABBA….maybe “SOS” would be appropriate also, but not “Waterloo!”
Non ABBA fans,forgive me, I can’t help it…their harmonies were so easy to listen to,even with trite lyrics like “Dancing Queen.”
Norm, what I read you to say is that YOU think that those of us who choose to defy the United States and tell them to “go fuck themselves” – in essence refusing to file the taxes forms that the IRS and Department of Treasury want, “cheat” the system. Is that what you’re insinuating? Because I refuse to allow my wife to spend $2000/yr filing taxes when my wife owes absolutely nothing to the United States. When mine and 34M Canadians tax dollars went to help educate her past secondary school. My wife doesn’t owe a goddamned thing to the United States of America. And if her not filing taxes at gunpoint from the United States causes you to think of her as a cheater then FUCK YOU TOO!!!
@The Animal
Whoa, whoa! That is not what Norm was saying. He was saying that for those who tried to be compliant, it is worse. Those whose attitudes towards themselves was, “well, we gotta do our taxes” are the ones who have found themselves in even worse situations. See, they have paid. I have not…yet.
I used to try to be compliant but stopped when it became futile, and thus have not had to pay.
Of course the other 1% of expatriate US citizens owe nonzero amounts of US tax. Some of those 1% cheat. Some of those 1% don’t cheat. As for the other 99%, which include me and The Fucking Animal’s wife, it’s impossible to cheat because the 99% don’t owe any US tax. Some of those 1% get the newspaper headlines, but the 99% get blamed for it.
Now, The Fucking Animal has clarified that everyone who agrees with The Fucking Animal should fuck ourselves, I refuse. The Fucking Animal, fuck yourself. Meanwhile, is your wife cute? (Don’t worry, my wife won’t let me.)
ShadowRaider –
3. Condemning US patriotism while praising Canada is inconsistent and alienates those who are not from Canada.
Statists of all persuasions are cause for nausea. Canadian statists are the absolute worst. Puffed up with pride and powerless as pipsqueaks. To adulate a dead soldier hero like Isaac Brock is so … American.
@administrator
Any chance of some guidance on site decorum? The F-bombs are obviously turning people against one another and if a newspaper wouldn’t allow this in print then why should IBS? Venting is one thing but vitriol another!
The attitudes turn people against each other, not the words.
Actions too of course. Actions speak louder than attitudes.
Hmmmm. I took a few days off and only caught the edge of this controversy today. I participate in that forum like I pariticpate in and read many others. I thought about it and I don’t agree with kicking people out or shutting them up because someone doesn’t like what they have to say. On any topic there will be a variety of views and sometimes violent disagreements. And I need that to shake me up – to get me out of my little bubble where I’m right damn it and I don’t want to hear anything that contradicts my perfect little vision of the world according to Victoria. However If I decide after listening/reading that what is being said is obnoxious, untrue and not worth my time, then I exercise my right to remove myself and my attention and take it somewhere else. And if I like I can put up information and start discussions that are more to my liking.
But I do not accept a forum where other people make that decision for me. Their saying “we don’t like THAT” and removing it and the individuals concerned means that I no longer have the opportunity to evaluate them for myself and make up my own mind about what they’re saying.
I don’t care if anyone agrees with me on this or not. I checked what happened against a personal standard and I find that it is in violation of that standard. And so I have quietly removed my attention from that forum.
The American Expatriates Facebook Group just lost several significant contributors.
Any forum that has a banner at the top that reads, “Let Our Voices Be Heard!” then turns around and tells the voices that they just invited to be heard, to “Shut the Fuck Up!” is doomed to fail.
I don’t know what to call it, Orwellian or simply Bat Shit Crazy.
In any case, we must continue to march, with or without such forums, or as we used to say in the Army, “Fuck it, Drive On!”
@Japan T
Just tell your family and friends that it’s about time ALL americans started filing and paying taxes back to the countries their families originated from.
Only fair, isn’t it ?
The_Animal
Just tell your family and friends that it’s about time ALL americans started filing and paying taxes back to the countries their families originated from.
Only fair, isn’t it ?
And watch : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhTvsDuP-rg
Karen Hudes, former lawyer of the IMF reveals the truth about the private federal reserve corporation who the IRS works for and the IMF owned by the federal reserve.
ALL money payed to the IRS goes abroad to finance the IMF in their efforts to create the New World Order.
The federal reserve corporation was created in december 1913 by Rockfeller, Rothschield and JP Morgan. President JFK tried to abolish it and that’s why thet shot him.
Rand Paul knows all this and that’s why he’s fighting the Washington machine.
This is bigger than Edouard Snowden who revealed the NSA.
Playing Devil`s Advocate here- but what happens when somebody comes over here and says “Pay up your taxes and seek legal advice if you need it”? Because I sometimes worry about those people in Europe or other countries who don`t have the protection that Canada offers. So honestly- do we practise what we preach?
Sorry for being the stick in the mud- but we have to be honest towards ourselves too. Sometimes I too think that the anger is too much to bear at the injustice of all of this. I take antacids and blood pressure pills and have had more than one physical complaint since all of this started. But rage and anger are what creates riots and can also muddy our thinking. I know it is important to let off steam- but when does it become bad for us?
But then I read about laws like “civil forfeiture” and I wonder if America has lost all of its moral compass anyway and become enraged once again…..sigh. 🙂
I’m with Polly. Filed my damned forms to the IRS and its Criminal Bureau for this year. The fear and anger normally start wearing off a bit around this time each year. But I’ve become too addicted to this site (not so much to the Facebook group, but look there enough), and it keeps the fear and anger in me at boiling point. I start to wonder whether it’s damaging my mental health. And yet I can’t stop myself, because the fear and anger are so obviously justified. Gimme some vodka, some painkillers, and a new passport, somebody, anybody, so I can calm down.
@Barbara @Polly
The best thing you can do, while dealing with this problem, is to live your life, and not dwell upon it too much. Don’t do anything rash. Just look at your situation, make a plan on how to mitigate, or deal with, these problems, and then when you’re ready, execute.
I’ve been in this boat as soon as I landed in Canada, and perhaps even earlier than that when I had married my wife. Once I learned of the shit storm that was coming my way, I had to deal with the same emotions of anger, and fear. I’ve been there, and now I’m almost free. You will get through it, too.
@usxcanada
I can’t stand statists! These damn people act as though the state is above, and beyond the people, and we are to bow down, kiss its ass, and grovel to it. Frankly, they should all be rounded up, and shot.
It is so far beyond the pale! The state is NOTHING without the people! When everyone turns their backs on it, it all evaporates.