I had a couple of my posts taken down by Keith Redmond at the American Expatriates Facebook Group.
The first made use of Lebron James comment, ‘I’m the best player in the world’.
I wrote, “Mirror Mirror on the wall, who is the best basketball player of them all?” Keith Redmond, the co-administrator of the Facebook group asked me what relevance it had to the group and I said it is analogous to American exceptionalism, “Mirror, Mirror on the wall, who is the most exceptional of them all?” It is really about the National Narcissistic Personality Disorder from which Americans suffer as a nation. It leads to the USA unilaterally imposing FATCA on the rest of the world as so beautifully captured in this video, which is still the best explanation of FATCA ever:
The second censored post reported on the State Department’s denunciation of Dominican Republic citing the United Nations human rights provisions. I said the USA was hypocritical because it violates the human rights of its own expats.
Then as Deedee Gierow, the Democrats Abroad co-administrator of the American Expatriates Facebook group, posted that she was sick and tired of all the bashing of the USA and that she, Keith and others were working very hard to lobby Washington (Facebook link). This solicited a discussion in which Redmond and Gierow heroically defended the purpose of the group and that they would henceforth delete any America-bashing content.
The American Expatriates group’s mission is to inform, educate, and provide the most up to date information regarding United States government policies affecting the lives of Americans living overseas. It is extremely important to mitigate the misconceptions about Americans living outside the United States vis-à-vis the public at large
It remains unclear to me how it is possible to have a group which discusses Citizenship Based Taxation and FATCA from an expat’s perspective without being anti-American. This is the conundrum–either the content is irrelevant (e.g., cookie recipes) or it is anti-American–e.g., discussions of the lives that are being ruined by FATCA and CBT. How do you stand by and allow innocent people to be destroyed by a foreign government and say positive things about that government?
There was some back and forth between myself and some of the other active members of the group, in which I learned that I am argumentative and offensive. Really? That really surprised me.
My third censored post was a comment: if we can’t really complain about how the USA is treating us, then we are supposed to be like a battered spouse, who quietly accepts abuse, and so I posted a link to the following page and suggested the situation was comparable to spousal abuse: Intimate Partner Violence Dynamics.
It seemed like Expat Forum deja vu, when I concluded that a censored forum is an oxymoron. So later when I suggested that some people would indeed leave the group because it wasn’t a safe place anymore, Redmond told me to leave. So I suppose my days are numbered.
I guess that is all I can write for now. My knee is bothering me and it is hard to stand up at my desk. In any case, it is good that some people are trying to lobby the US government, but I have no faith that that will change anything. So perhaps my cynicism and pessimism is not welcome in best of all worlds–but certainly not on certain “forums”. Cheers to you all.
In my opinion, there’s no problem with Brock admins and why would it matter what other affiliations they have, including ADCS? I’d only complain if they were compliance condors or government agents and they certainly are not that. Just in case they now think theirs is a thankless job I want to say thank you to our admins for all the hours spent making sure this site runs smoothly.
@Embee re: ” … why would it matter what other affiliations they have, including ADCS?”
Because that particular group has a particular agenda, and this website is not about promoting agendas.
@ WhiteKat
I see a free flow of opinions here at Brock and the admins are making sure they continue to flow. They, like everyone else here, express their opinions. Is that an agenda? I still don’t see the problem. If some comments were consistently being blocked, maybe, but I’m certain that that is not the case.
Just because most comments are not being deleted, does not mean they are not being swayed or subdued.
Do you also see a free flow of decisions? Or do you hear about them after they have been made?
@Embee, rather than asking, “Do you also see a free flow of decisions? “,
what I should have asked was, “Do you get to participate in the decision making process?, do you understand the alternatives?, are you given an opportunity to assess priorities with full knowledge of the options along with the a risk/benefit analysis of each?”
Or do you hear about the decision after it was made?”
@ WhiteKat
Well I guess I see Brock primarily as a forum. I also like that it is supportive to people trying to work their way through a difficult situation. It functions well and all this decision making you refer to is not apparent to me. Was there any decision in particular which you would have liked to have been consulted on? And, “comments being swayed or subdued” … can only happen if someone is swayable or subduable. I know The_Animal isn’t and I wouldn’t want him to be any other way.
Wow Embee. You ask pointed questions. I will try to answer, without getting into ‘he said, she said’….
Re: “Was there any decision in particular which you would have liked to have been consulted on?”
Yeah, for sure…the pending CBT lawsuit soon to be announced by ADCS (or by the four individuals that make up that group)
Re: “And, comments being swayed or subdued” … can only happen if someone is swayable or subduable. I know The_Animal isn’t and I wouldn’t want him to be any other way”.
That one is harder to answer, but I will try. The Animal is not a threat to ADCS. I have personally experienced “subduing”(not fun), yet there is no point rehashing old conversations I don’t think. But it does not take a rocket scientist,(no offence Embee cause I am not one either) to get that when the people who moderate and express opinions on a website are also the same people who are directors of an organization defending Canadian sovereignty means that they hold the power of life and death(financially speaking)over people, and have enormous sway and influence on opinions and decision. People are hesitant to make judgement on them, and are afraid to challenge them because they see them as their only chance. That is just human nature.
@ Norm
Japan REQUIRES CLN or equivalents from other countries, even if they’re not written in Japanese. Ask Arudou-shi
That does not mean that my banks would. I have been having huge problems of late as new Japanese law requires the name on my accounts and such to be the same as my passport. Problem is, Japanese have only of two names and with my middle name I have three. The application forms only allow for two names, there is no place to put my middle name. Luckily, my accounts predate this new law but I have denied multiple new credit cards because my three names will not fit the form and just using my first and last names differs frim my passport.
The law may require a CLN but does it require banks to accept it?
My marriage registration has my first and middle names concatenated in the space for “first” name. I bet your banks could do the same.
I don’t think a CLN affects naming regulations though.
@ WhiteKat
Hmmmm … obviously you’re thinking deeper than I am. It didn’t occur to me that anyone here at Brock would want to be a threat to ADCS. Of course there are those who are unable or unwilling to support it financially but everyone will suit themselves on that. Anyway, there’s more to Brock than ADCS and people can focus on whichever parts are the most value to them. I can barely keep up with the reading here so I can’t spend too much time analyzing all the nuances. For me, forum conversations are hard to judge because they aren’t face to face interactions and the only sense I get of who is “speaking” comes from what little may have been revealed in previous comments (providing I even recall those comments with any accuracy).
It would appear that background information is lacking considering some of the posting here!
I suggest a refresher course on how we got to this point. And a detailed refresher course it should be.
@Embee: Too RIGHT!- Our people need to know how supportive we are of their tireless and selfless efforts on our behalf!
Many of us here do NOT question the integrity of our champions. ( OR and especially our plaintiffs !!)
We are all in this together and the success of the fundraising attests to our support! ( Don’t worry, we will get to our goal as we did before!)
As for those who ,perhaps ,have not been here to see how things developed as they did and how those who are working so tirelessly on our behalf ended up doing the endless and thankless tasks required to take our lawsuit to a successful conclusion and how that transpired, It is strongly suggested a serious catch up on the facts, (which can be found here at IBS easily, if one looks, as it is ALL here!! )
Go and DO that. And then have something more to say!
I expect abject contrition!!
I don’t think I’m expressing myself very well tonight. Luckily John Richardson made a post over at ADCS Sovereignty recently which pretty much nails it for me.
https://adcsovereignty.wordpress.com/2015/06/18/if-americansabroad-dont-hang-together-they-will-hang-separately-and-thats-a-fatca/#more-908
John brings up a very good point, however, the AE group is stifling expression of discontent with cries of “America-bashing”. And we have a right to voice that discontent – it’s a part of the traumatic experience that we have all gone through. I have no problem in exhibiting hate for the United States and what it has brought my family to. Nothing would make me happier than to see the dissolution of the Union; the sooner the better. I have no love for America – after what it has done to my wife in attempting to go after her meager income (that goes to support our family). And yes, I’m enraged about that. I fully support any action that will bring about relief for us, and the dissolution of all three components of this taxation farce: CBT, FATCA and FBAR whether it be by discussion, by outright legal action or by armed insurrection – pray that it doesn’t come to that. I have every right to pound on any Homelander Abroad who tries to stifle my freedom of expression – no matter how “offended” they get at it. It is my right as a Canadian and my duty as a loving spouse to my American wife (who longs for the day that she can send back the United States Passport and take a Canadian Maple Leaf as her citizenship) to love, cherish and protect.
@ Norm
It wasn’t an issue when I got morried over a decade ago nor was until 3 or four years ago, then all of a sudden it was.
The mashing together of two names has become a huge problem for me. Those entities that accept this, and not all do, each do so in their own way, regardless of my protestations. I now have half a dozen different names and none are as on my passport.
I used this as an imperfect example of how actual practice can differ from policy. I have had in the distant past an instance of one entity or another (city hall, bank, employer?) not accepting a certified translation of an English document but can not recall the situation.
Hey all, here is the teeny tiny problem…..its definitions of what should be a simple word.
Lets start with an example….What is a pair of pants?
People in my house start giggling if I say “Johnnie stop walking around without your pants.”
What are “Americans Abroad?”
That needs to be defined in agreeable terms for a discussion to ensue.
George wrote:
‘What are “Americans Abroad?”
That needs to be defined in agreeable terms for a discussion to ensue.’
Since different laws have different definitions, that would close off all discussion.
We still need to discuss doing what we need to do.
@ Norman
I think my point would be better stated as, while Japan require a CLN for banks wishing to continue doing business with former USCs, Banks are not required to continue doing business with former USCs.
Same as FATCA requiring the reporting on US Person but not requiring banks to count inure doing business with US persons.
Banks are not required to do business with anyone and can refuse to do so whether one has a CLN or not. While this has always been true, current U.S. policy has scared banks away from US Persons. Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice shame on me. I doubt many banks will be willing to expose themselves to the rapidly increased risks of doing business with anyone with a taint of US personhood. There are not enough of us to significantly boost income if they welcome us or hurt their bottom line if the shut us out.
There are many stories here (IBS) of people who have moved their money from one bank after getting ” the letter” to another. Even after consulting with the new bank before the move and the new bank telling them that there would be no problem, the new bank closed the new account in a matter of months.
The problem, as I see, is not an issue of which piece of paper one has or does not have. It is that a government foreign to many of us and distant from the rest of us has shown its willingness and ability to change the requirements we must meet. Having rendered the passport insufficient in these matters, there is absolutely nothing to keep the U.S. from using this precedent to render the CLN equally impotent.
The U.S. is not a good faith partner. One can not be certain that what ever legal agreement entered into with the U.S. will not be altered unilaterally sometime in the future. If the U.S. decides Japanese banks must also report those with a CLN, then Japanese banks will do so as they are/will with US persons under FATCA, or refuse service to CLN holders to remove the risk.
@WhiteKat, re;”…Four self appointed people are deciding on behalf of 40 million Canadians what constitutes an attack on Canadian sovereignty that is worth defending..”
The 40 million aren’t bound by four people, nor by ADCS. Were there others organizing an attack on FATCA in Canada, fundraising and offering an alternative? Or coming forward to offer themselves as plaintiffs or as people taking on potential liability and all the work that it has taken to get to this point? That preparation was a long time in the making.
For myself, I am content to concentrate on what has gotten off the ground and is coming to fruition, but that is just my opinion and where I chose to put my support. No-one else is constrained to do so.
I appreciate all the hard work that has been done at IBS, Maple Sandbox and ADCS, including the legal challenge, the human rights complaint to the UN, the appearance before the Finance Committee, etc. I see plenty of disagreement here. Some very forthright. There are people who author threads on IBS who are not part of the ADCS. I can’t see how a committee of everyone who reads and comments at IBS would work in a practical sense.
@JapanT, “The U.S. is not a good faith partner. One can not be certain that what ever legal agreement entered into with the U.S. will not be altered unilaterally sometime in the future. If the U.S. decides Japanese banks must also report those with a CLN, then Japanese banks will do so as they are/will with US persons under FATCA, or refuse service to CLN holders to remove the risk.”
You are exactly correct.
The adage of never ever admit USness holds today more than ever.
EmBee: John Richardson’s post nails it for me, too. John says it all: “As entertaining as the recent ‘in fighting’ has been, it really must stop.” And, as JC said in a comment somewhere else, “All guns should be pointed outward.” Amen to that.
@MuzzledNoMore
Sorry, but I am not willing to hang with those fighting for THEIR OWN cause, and no amount of cheerleading about how we’re supposedly ‘all in this together’, is ever going to change that.
I am content to hang alone, if that is what it takes to swing with good company.
…..and ultimately, protecting my wife’s rights as a Canadian is much more important to me, than some stranger’s tax and financial problems, caused by a government that he would rather plead to, and would ultimately defend at the expense of other expats, rather than fight or litigate against.
Time to put this thread to rest.
Time to put my US citizenship to rest.
I am exceedingly grateful to all of those at ADCS, Brock and Maple for helping us expats no matter where we are in the world. I understand that for the Canadian expats the sovereignty issue is extremely important, but if Brock takes on cbt, I for one, would be joyous beyond words. I deeply appreciate all of the hard and sometimes frustrating work done by the four leaders and the other great people behind the scenes. Thank you, thank you from all over the world where we are inspired by your energy and devotion for fighting to make all Americans financially free, no matter where they live. You are truly amazing people. Thank you