Note: Updated June 12/15 – Now includes Part 2 – Vatican II
Part 1 – Initial impressions
US joins forces with Holy See in fighting tax fraud http://t.co/GS8GS47it3 – @CNALive clearly delusional – Vatican assists US extortion!
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) June 11, 2015
This extreme distortion of reality leads to one of two conclusions:
1. The Vatican clearly does NOT understand what FATCA is actually about.
2. The Vatican has moral standards that are equivalent to those of the Obama administration.
Regardless of what you think of the Vatican, it’s unlikely that any person or country could have standards of morality that are equivalent to those demonstrated by the U.S. Government.
Therefore, we must assume that the Vatican signed the agreement out of ignorance. This also provides an opportunity to provide education, where it is sorely needed. I suggest that a Americans abroad should create a “coalition of the willing” to provide the appropriate education. All you need do is read this extraordinary news release from @CNALive and you will see what I mean.
In the first accord of its kind between the U.S. and the Holy See, the two States agreed to share tax information per the U.S. Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA). One high-ranking Vatican official said that with the agreement, the friendships and cooperation between the two has reached “an even higher level.”
“Signing the present agreement is thus a further step in the Holy See’s long-term strategy to ensure and promote legality, transparency and ethical behavior in the economic and financial fields,” said the Holy See’s Secretary for Relations with States, Archbishop Paul Gallagher.
According to a June 10 joint press release, the archbishop spoke of the Holy See’s commitment over the past five years to promote “transparency and legality in the financial sector,” all the while keeping man’s economic and social life in sight.
The prelate made these remarks to U.S. Ambassador to the Holy See, Kenneth F. Hackett, with whom he signed the agreement on Wednesday.
The aim of the measure is to improve international tax compliance and the exchange of tax information between the Holy See and the U.S.
“Every person has in fact the duty to contribute, in charity and justice, to the common good, according to his own abilities and the needs of others, by promoting and assisting the public institutions dedicated to bettering the conditions of human life,” said Archbishop Gallagher.
As part of the agreement, the Holy See will be required to report the fiscal activities of American citizens who have Vatican bank accounts to the U.S. Treasury.
FATCA is a 2010 U.S. Federal law which requires American citizens living abroad to report their assets yearly to the U.S. Treasury department.
“We welcome the Holy See’s commitment to intensifying our cooperation to promote global financial transparency through improving international tax compliance,” said Ambassador Hackett at the signing ceremony.
The. U.S. is the 63rd country to enter into such an agreement with the Holy See.
The agreement comes amid widespread curial reforms being pushed forward by Pope Francis. In 2014, the pontiff called for the establishment of the Secretariat for the Economy, a dicastery which oversees financial activities throughout the Vatican and the Holy See.
Part 2 – Vatican II (Added June 12/15)
US Vatican FATCA IGA is only a public relations exercise to send message that #FATCA is truly the "will of God" http://t.co/CkLyXDnQig
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) June 12, 2015
The above tweet references my comment about the consequence about the legality of the U.S. Vatican FATCA IGA.
@All
I am going to include the following comment in an update to the post. In my haste, I overlooked an extremely important aspect of this – sometimes the obvious is the hardest to see. Let’s call this addition to this post, which is about the Vatican:
Vatican II
As you are aware, the FATCA legislation provides NO authority for the U.S. Treasury to enter into Intergovernmental Agreements (the IGAs). Professor Allison Christians, Jim Jatras, Congressman Bill Posey and others have repeatedly made this point. What Treasury appears to have done, is to “add on” to or “extend” EXISTING tax treaties, to include what eventually becomes the FATCA IGA.
My understanding has always been that:
If a country doesn’t have a pre-existing tax treaty or tax sharing agreement then no FATCA IGA is possible. This allows Treasury to claim that they are NOT entering into a new treaty without statutory authority, but rather that they are simply extending a pre-existing authority.
Now, with this background, lets compare the Canadian FATCA IGA with the Vatican FATCA IGA.
You will note that in the preamble of the Canada FATCA IGA it says:
Whereas, Article XXVII of the Convention Between the United States and Canada with Respect to Taxes
on Income and on Capital done at Washington on September 26, 1980, as amended by the Protocols done on June 14, 1983, March 28, 1984, March 17, 1995, July 29, 1997, and September 21, 2007 (the “Convention”) authorizes the exchange of information for tax purposes, including on an automatic basis;
You will note that the Vatican FATCA IGA contains no such provision – presumably because the U.S. has no comparable treaty with the Vatican (assuming that I am correct on this).
The effect of there being on comparable pre-existing treaty with the Vatican is that there is absolutely NO U.S. statutory authority for the Vatican FATCA IGA. (If I am wrong in this, then please explain why.)
The Vatican FATCA IGA is a public relations gesture to suggest that FATCA is truly the will of God
Assuming the correctness of this reasoning, then the Vatican FATCA IGA is nothing more than a symbolic measure. It exists only so that the Treasury can claim that even the Pope supports the United States in imposing FATCA on the world. In fact, if the Vatican supports FATCA, then the Obama administration is doing nothing more and nothing less than the work of God. FATCA is God’s will. Those who oppose FATCA are opposing the will of God.
That’s the only significance of this “so called” called agreement with the Vatican which Treasury has entered into with no statutory authority.
The pope and the UN are supposed to promote human rights, but I guess this is true ONLY for those particular human rights issues that do not stand in the way of the grand plan – FATCA is not one of those.
@Terence
re: ” Who is the author of this article – hiding behind the title uscitizenabroad – gaining exposure on the Issac Brock Society website? His heavily-partisan disingenuous opinions are obnoxious to me.”
WHO ARE YOU? Why don’t you post with YOUR REAL FULL NAME here Terence? In case you haven’t noticed, pretty much everyone who comments and/or writes a post at IBS uses an alias – should USCitizenAbroad be any different? And since most of us are considered ‘tax cheats’, can you blame us for wanting to be anonymous? – what is your excuse?
I’m not sure where you get the idea that his/her opinions are heavily-partisan as NO ONE here really gives 2 $h!Ts WHICH party gets rid of FATCA – we just want it KILLED! Hell, most of us don’t even vote in the USA because we don’t consider ourselves Americans – we vote in the countries we actually live in and pay taxes to.
As far as your suggestion that USCitizenAbroad is disingenous – can you elaborate? Every post and comment I have ever read from this person has come off as being most sincere in my opinion.
WhiteKat. It helps to recognize a spambot when you see one.
@terence
It appears you are new here. USCitizenAbroad is not and nothing written by USCA is an attempt to “gain exposure.” Were you more familiar with USCA’s posts, the very last word anyone would use is “disingenuous.” Try going back to the beginning of Brock (Dec 2011) and read all of USCA’s posts and comments before dissing them. There is not an author on this site who is more well-informed or more respected. Try to get to know the community better before you criticize anyone and should you do so, offer some substantial points against the ideas rather than the person.
The Catholic Church has 1.2 billion followers? That’s a pretty big borderless nation. Makes the US look small by comparison.
@WhiteKat
“Hell, most of us don’t even vote in the USA because we don’t consider ourselves Americans – we vote in the countries we actually live in and pay taxes to.”
Really?
@ Bubble
There are estimates that only 7% of the “expats” vote. So MANY are either lazy or agree with Whitekat. I do wonder might some who wish to vote this cycle because of the CBT/FATCA issue and have not been compliant be afraid to register? Is there any information that would assail there fears?
@DukeOfDevon,
re: “WhiteKat. It helps to recognize a spambot when you see one.”
Thanks for clearing that up for not only me, but also Barbara and Tricia as we each gave ‘Terrence’ the spambot, a piece of our minds.
From now on, when anyone posts something jerky who is not an immediately identifiable Brocker, we should assume they are ‘spambots’ also.
Earlier from Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanalysts/2014/12/24/the-vatican-bank-christmas-cheer-and-fatca/
to add to last post……or confirm them?
@Bubblebustin re:
“@WhiteKat
“Hell, most of us don’t even vote in the USA because we don’t consider ourselves Americans – we vote in the countries we actually live in and pay taxes to.”
Really?”
MOST is a bit strong of a word. I am revising my above statement to substitute the word ‘many’ for ‘most’:
“Hell, MANY of us (i.e. US’s persons living in other countries who are often citizens of those other countries) don’t even vote in the USA because we don’t consider ourselves Americans – we vote in the countries we actually live in and pay taxes to.”
It is amazing how one little four letter word can change the nuance of a sentence. Thanks for pointing that out Bubblebustin.
Well, I guess that cements the old rule quite thoroughly: there will never be an American pope. (And they’ll have to do background checks to make sure neither of the parents are Americans either.)
@Eric…lol.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/10/vatican-bank-us-tax-authorities
Now you know why they call it “pontificating”.
…and right in line with why we, citizens and residents of other countries, must pay *our US Person fair share*?
@WhiteKat says
Umm… I never said those statements… @FuriousAC was the author of the tidbits… there is no way in heck that I would even remember all those facts… When I saw your post to me… I was like… dang… did I post when I was less then awake? That is why I am always amazed u all can just whip out the info at a drop of a hat… I can barely remember if I have all my kids in the house or if the toddler made a break for it & I didn’t notice it… Sorry
I’m surprised Terence(sp.)’s other cohort Phillip hasn’t shown up here (reference South Park).
http://southpark.wikia.com/wiki/Terrance_and_Phillip – but he seems quite the comical troll.
@All
I am going to include the following comment in an update to the post. In my haste, I overlooked an extremely important aspect of this – sometimes the obvious is the hardest to see. Let’s call this addition to this post, which is about the Vatican:
Vatican II
As you are aware, the FATCA legislation provides NO authority for the U.S. Treasury to enter into Intergovernmental Agreements (the IGAs). Professor Allison Christians, Jim Jatras, Congressman Bill Posey and others have repeatedly made this point. What Treasury appears to have done, is to “add on” to or “extend” EXISTING tax treaties, to include what eventually becomes the FATCA IGA.
My understanding has always been that:
If a country doesn’t have a pre-existing tax treaty or tax sharing agreement then no FATCA IGA is possible. This allows Treasury to claim that they are NOT entering into a new treaty without statutory authority, but rather that they are simply extending a pre-existing authority.
Now, with this background, lets compare the Canadian FATCA IGA with the Vatican FATCA IGA.
You will note that in the preamble of the Canada FATCA IGA it says:
You will note that the Vatican FATCA IGA contains no such provision – presumably because the U.S. has no comparable treaty with the Vatican (assuming that I am correct on this).
The effect of there being on comparable pre-existing treaty with the Vatican is that there is absolutely NO U.S. statutory authority for the Vatican FATCA IGA. (If I am wrong in this, then please explain why.)
The Vatican FATCA IGA is a public relations gesture to suggest that FATCA is truly the will of God
Assuming the correctness of this reasoning, then the Vatican FATCA IGA is nothing more than a symbolic measure. It exists only so that the Treasury can claim that even the Pope supports the United States in imposing FATCA on the world. In fact, if the Vatican supports FATCA, then the Obama administration is doing nothing more and nothing less than the work of God. FATCA is God’s will. Those who oppose FATCA are opposing the will of God.
That’s the only significance of this “so called” called agreement with the Vatican which Treasury has entered into with no statutory authority.
@US_Foreign_Person:
Ha. ‘Didn’t want to point out to @WhiteKat that she had her poster wrong, but glad you did.
I am also glad to read your post regarding riding herd on your children , particularly about the toddler making a break for it and you hadn’t noticed! Gave me my real laugh of the day. And it is Friday, which makes it a perfect start to the weekend. 🙂
@FuriousAC and US_Foreign_Person,
Sorry about that! I knew I was going to mix you two up one of these days – I’ve almost done it before. Not sure why – something about those 7-letter F words in your respective aliases.
Meanwhile in other news:
http://www.infowars.com/7-key-events-that-are-going-to-happen-by-the-end-of-september/
by Michael Snyder:
From the Article:
“July 28th – On May 28th, Reuters reported that countries in the European Union were being given a two month deadline to enact “bail-in” legislation. Any nation that does not have “bail-in” legislation in place by that time will face legal action from the European Commission. So why is the European Union in such a rush to get this done? Are the top dogs in the EU anticipating that another great financial crisis is about to erupt?”
“September 25th to September 27th – The United Nations is going to launch a brand new sustainable development agenda for the entire planet. Some have called this “Agenda 21 on steroids”. But this new agenda is not just about the environment. It also includes provisions regarding economics, agriculture, education and gender equality. On September 25th, the Pope will travel to New York to give a major speech kicking off the UN conference where this new agenda will be unveiled.”
( This ‘major speech’ is the Encyclical everyone has been talking about in religious circles) Basically an edict from on high that ‘It is the Will of God’ to do whatever the Pope says must be done!
(Much as the discussion above regarding the Pope and the Vatican signing an IGA for FATCA.)
I love to see the discussion regarding the legality of Treasury signing IGA, which is clearly illegal. They do NOT have that authority, treaty in place or otherwise. They have never had that authority. A fact our government knew before they went into negotiations. They went to DC , got bullied , came home with their tail between their legs, and sold us all down the river. Illegal negotiations with a department of the US government who do not have authority to negotiate, is illegal in itself, period! And they all knew it and do know it. They just think WE do not! The lawsuit puts the situation in proper perspective.
And BAIL INs?? Seriously? All governments put in legislation that banks can steal from their customers ala John Corzine .
Think about it. OUR government LEGISLATES for an illegal and immoral move against their own bosses ( Canadian Taxpayers) in favour of bank theft.
Oh, boy, does there need to be some serious A** Kicking all over the place.
The vote in Congress shot down authority for the prez to sign a TPP (for now!)
Those repubbies need an electoral haircut! So, now , we have the Dems and the TeaParty to thank for this reprieve and a close call it was.
Next they will try it in the dead of night or right before a holiday as they did in 1913!
Something we all have been living with since!
If there is going to be a third party in the United States, perhaps NOW is the time. I simply DO NOT KNOW what the Republican leadership is thinking. Certainly not about their base!
@WhiteKat
I wanted to use F* Up… but I figured I would forget & put the whole word in…. I got a mouth like a sailor… I try hard to be careful so at least I seem polite & not that word that rhythms with witch…. it starts with a B.. which I am very proud of…
@US_Foreign_Person,
Nice. A girl after my own heart.
Meanwhile in Austria the Bilderbergers are meeting in secret again and this is what their agenda for the next 12 months appears to be:
– Further isolating Russia over Ukraine – arming Ukrainian militias and potentially stoking a major confrontation with NATO
– Strangling financial support for Hillary Clinton’s potential 2016 presidential competitors
– The elites positioning themselves as financial saviors when more riots and civil unrest [arise]
– Moving towards the abolition of cash and imposing economic totalitarianism
– Discrediting the ‘out’ campaign for the United Kingdom’s EU referendum
– Re-branding authoritarianism in anticipation of the coming economic collapse
– Finalizing the TPP as the next pillar of global government
– Dismantling China and the BRICS’ ability to challenge the unipolar system
– Selling artificial intelligence and Big Brother surveillance as “trendy” and “cool” in order to fool the general public into adopting technology that will eviscerate their livelihoods and personal privacy.
I bolded the points that have come up in Brock discussions. NOTE: Stephen Harper attended a Bilderberg meeting in 2003 prior to becoming Prime Minister. And to be fair, Pierre Trudeau, Paul Martin, and Jean Chrétien attended prior to their elections too. There are no politicians from Canada attending this year (that we know of) so does that mean this sinister, secretive group feel confident that Harper can hold onto his position? I don’t know but I am curious.
Stop the world — we want to get off.
Gawd, I would LOVE to send a copy of the UN Human Rights Complaint to Pope Francis but it will have to wait until the UN reviews it and allows the Complaint to come out from under wraps. Pope Francis needs to know what he’s done.