Dear Supporters,
Many of you probably predicted that I would not be saying this today, but this message is not a dream: You came up with yet another $100,000 payment — now making a total of $400,000 provided to the Arvay team.
In the last twelve days you actually donated more than $40,000 — an amazing achievement for small donors. This accomplishment proves to all those people who want us to fail — that we are very determined.
You gave until it hurt and then you gave a lot more. It’s hard not to get teary-eyed over the generosity of our supporters, who have come through every time.
We know that the pace of your litigation is painfully slow, and this is unfortunately as expected. The Government will continue to do its best to slow down the process, but we now have the assistance of a case management judge to help keep the process moving more fairly.
We filed in August 2014 and it has taken a very long time (one year) before we are finally into a (summary) trial (August 4-5, 2015). We cannot predict the outcomes of this trial, based on only part of our arguments and, with your continued support, we will prepare for all possibilities.
[Happy birthday Gwen!]
Thank you for your trust,
Stephen Kish,
ADCS-ADSC Chair,— on behalf of Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, their families, and the ADCS-ADSC Directors
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Chers amis et donateurs,
Certains d’entre vous avaient probablement pensé que je ne pourrais pasvous annoncer une si bonne nouvelle aujourd’hui. Mais voilà : ensemble, nous avons réussi à ramasser un autre montant de 100 000 $, ce qui fait un total de 400 000 $ à remettre à l’équipe de MeArvay.
Dans les 12 derniers jours seulement, vous avez donné plus de 40 000 $, un exploit tout à fait extraordinaire pour des « petits donateurs ». À tous ceux qui souhaitent nous voir échouer, cette réussite prouve que nous sommes des plus déterminés. Et que nous réussirons.
Vous avez donné jusqu’à ce que ça fasse mal, puis vous avez donné encore. Difficile de rester insensible devant une si grande générosité.
Nous sommes bien conscients du fait que notre litige avance de façon péniblement lente. Malheureusement, tout ça est normal. Le gouvernement continue à ralentirle processus, mais on nous a maintenant attitré un juge responsable de la gestion de notre dossier qui veillera à ce que le processus progresse de façon plus juste.
En août 2014, nous avons engagé une poursuite contre le gouvernement canadien. Près d’un an plus tard, nous avons enfin la date pour notre procès sommaire : les 4 et 5 août 2015. Impossible de prévoir le dénouement de ce procès, basé uniquement sur une partie de nos arguments juridiques. Mais avec votre appui, nous serons prêts pour toutes les possibilités.
(Bonne fête, Gwen !)
Au nom de nos deux plaignantes, Ginny et Gwen, de leurs familles et des directeurs de l’ADCS-ADSC, je vous remercie de votre confiance.
Stephen Kish,
Président de l’ADCS-ADSC
Walter,
What makes the best sense will be up to our legal counsel, Joseph Arvay and team.
Once again…
Our lawsuit advocates for ALL peoples harmed by FATCA and is NOT limited to a minority of so-called “duals-at-birth”.
I’ll leave it to others to carry on this discussion further. I don’t know what more to say.
Thanks, Mr. A, for your comment and for pointing out that we are Canadians, NOT *US citizens who happen to reside in Canada* or any other like description.
I agree with you that the challenge that we are all contributing to will help others in their countries around the world. We truly appreciate every donation and the ones who trust what we are doing from wherever they reside — every donation, no matter the size, to get us to our goal at http://www.adcs-adsc.ca/.
Walter asks excellent questions in a temperate fashion.
Yelling the core Brock credo back at him in heavy-duty bright red pixels does not answer those questions.
Wasn’t there some guy named Jacobson who also had a penchant for yammering “trust us”?
@Walter. Thank you for raising all those valid points. Most of us are furious at our government for failing to stand behind us in Canada. They just threw all of us into the fire and walked away without even bothering to answer our letters which were written by a lot of very frightened people. I do agree with your thoughts on the US government under Obama trying a weasel tactic with this proposal. I will honestly say this, and I think I speak for many here. We stand by each other and human rights. These god given rights were broken and whether someone who left the USA and lived in another country most of their lives is an accidental or not, these rights are theirs too. For me personally, this will be a fight to the finish with a scoundrel government that left us all for stupid. I will never forget the looks on the faces, the tears and all of the innocent peoples broken spirit that I have witnessed in the past year and a half. The USA has got to start using common sense here and stop destroying the lives of the good people that were born in the USA. The USA needs a good name right about now and as word spreads about how they threatened every country in the world, it makes lawsuits like ours so incredibly important to support.
@ Mr A and Walter
Let us not forget that there are Americans living in Canada as permanent residents as well as Canadians whom the US considers “US Persons”. This lawsuit is for all.
I am just asking that if the lawsuit is for all Canadians deemed to be US Persons, is the profile of the plaintiffs wide enough or does it need to be expanded to prevent the US from undermining the endeavor with a scalpel?
I think it is naïve to consider the lawsuit as being only between citizens of Canada and the Canadian government. The US elephant will get its nose under the tent one way or another and is most likely already sitting inside comparing notes with the Canadian government.
In reality, the lawsuit is against two governments, not one.
Our tax rebel, Boris Johnson, was in Boston this week – he was only 5 min walk away from the Boston Tea Party Ship judging by where he is in the photo. He should have thrown some FATCA tea bales off the ship.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/02/09/snowfall-dampens-london-mayor-boris-johnson-visit-boston/eeSvebtHl9HFW0C2QAxPpN/story.html
Too bad we cannot include fatca in this http://www.tworowtimes.com/news/national/shutdowncanada-planned-feb-13-reaches-thousandsmasses/
That was satire. I do not support breaking laws.
@NativeCanadian
There’s nothing wrong with civil disobedience. There’s nothing wrong with civil disobedience in the context you just cited. And there’s nothing wrong with civil disobedience in the C-31 context.
Someone wrote concerning a DA activist ” Under US law they are legal US citizens and by international treaties recognized as such even in Canada.”
FALSE, A Canadian Citizen resident inn Canada REGARDLESS of Irish, German, Cuban, USA, or any other citizenship by descent or otherwise, is solely recognized as being as a Canadian Citizen by His/Her Government.
This position is equal to that when said person enters the USA, all other citizenships are no longer recognized.
@Dash I do think that there is a place for civil disobedience in Canada when all else fails. This government did to the Natives what they did to all of us here. They ignored us and them and their only replies to us and them was garbage rhetoric. The Native people are doing what the farmers did driving tractors down the 401, they are doing what the truck drivers and taxi drivers did as well to get their point across. We here are doing it legally and are taking this to court. This is the action I will always favor. I guess if a judge gets paid off or something totally illegal happens from this government, my thoughts might change. People are not stupid. This government has changed to a dictatorship and has created laws in their favor to keep us all under control by telling us we have no rights except to write our MP and they will. be honorable and give us a reply. This has failed us all. Most of our MP’s don’t have an “honorable” bone in their body. this is why these things happen. I hope they get justice their way and I hope we get justice our way. The world is watching us…
I’ve seen the thermometer stuck on the same mark for several days before (we always met our goal anyway) but still it bothers me to see 89131 for 4 days in a row. I hope the mail is swift this week because something is on its way but it’s only a small fraction of what is needed. 🙁
I certainly hope that people haven’t suddenly become afraid to donate because of the fear of being watched by “big brother”. We have always had that fear and we are fighting back by launching this suit. This is no time to stop fighting and start cowering. Come on, we are not going to let them win, are we? NO we are NOT! For Pete’s sake, Ginny and I have come out in the open to fight them, don’t let us down now!
@EmBee and GwEvil,
Maybe you both have the power.
Within “seconds” of your posting a plea for donations, a very nice donation just came in from one of our very generous supporters from the United States.
@ Stephen Kish
Wow! That’s good to see. 🙂
@ furious AC, and all wonderful Brockers. ….of course Obama/Demos/CIA/NSA/FBI are monitoring this lawsuit closely. …..it is the ONE and ONLY real game in town (heck , in the world!)
fighting back against the 150++ year old deadweight of CBT expression of American exceptionalism in which homeland apparatchniks/ and /or congresscritters have so much invested. it is people power at its purest enabled by global telecommunications . I am watching the thermometer and hope to give another 500 CAD very shortly … unexpected cheapness of gas here in UK built up over several months allowing me to save pennies and pounds!
Before I renounced I was lifelong Democrat….blimey, I gave MONEY to Obama in 2008!. I never ever thought I’d find myself on the same side of the fence with someone like Rand Paul!!!
the very interesting part of this to me is that in the long term we are actually fighting to increase the prestige of the USA by bringing it into the modern world of global RBT, and thereby increasing America’s ability to compete globally……
the very sad part of this to me is the completely unnecessary loss of goodwill of expats-the natural unpaid ambassdaors- USA not only wont have many perm expats left if they carry on, in addition Ex expats will have lifelong negative story to tell
personally i talk about CBT all the time everywhere… in the hope of discouraging STEM people from moving tacross the pond ….. on the principle of no pain, no gain…
I love America to the point where, to remain compliant, I sacrificed my ability to return and look after my parents, work with companies easily and retire with my close friends who remain stateside
ie I couldnt’ afford the accounting fees long term to file 100 pages of close, consistent print + every year to tell the IRS I owed them zero)…… along with the fear of inadvertant breach and ever more draconian laws and increasing age making me less and less able to deal with the garbage. Sauve qui peut.
and as google translate tells me…..Esto sane in me ipso non sum ad salvandum
There is a lively facebook thread happening on the Democrats Abroad facebook page. There is a post a few posts down from the top about renouncing and things of that nature. There are some people being ignorant as usual and some like minded folks who are standing up for us. I urge everyone to go to the thread and help educate all the ignorant people making ignorant statements over there.
” We received additional correspondence from Government clarifying somewhat their estimate of delay to review documents we requested. ”
Please help me (and I dare say others) to clarify in my own mind …. WE requested Government to review documents ? OR did WE request Government to clarify their estimate of delay while THEY review documents that THEY choose to involve in the proceedings ? There is a difference.
Am somewhat surprised that the Canadian Govt has not sent out Valentine’s Day cards to all “US Persons residing in Canada” on behalf of a secret admirer south of the border.
This dual US-Australian person’s primary resident – worth about 2 million dollars Australian in Sydney, New South Wales is not free from Capital Gain Tax from the IRS. He was given the wrong advice.
What’s my best tax move before I go?
http://www.theage.com.au/money/super-and-funds/whats-my-best-tax-move-before-i-go-20150211-13ax1z.html
@Walter, sorry for the delay but I am now going to try to answer your two questions:
You first ask: “I am just asking that if the lawsuit is for all Canadians deemed to be US Persons”
My answer is that the lawsuit is certainly NOT limited to “Canadians deemed to be US Persons” but includes ALL Canadians. (I also believe that the Charter protects all people residing in Canada.) For example, we have a Witness who has not a trace of US personhood but who is married to an unfortunate Canadian who the U.S. unjustly (we all would agree on this) considers to be a U.S. citizen.
Then you ask: “…is the profile of the plaintiffs wide enough or does it need to be expanded to prevent the US from undermining the endeavor with a scalpel?”
I have already answered this way — but you must feel that the answer is not sufficient:
“Today Mr. Arvay also has confirmed with me, yet again, that our legal strategy is not limited to the specific characteristics of the two plaintiffs, that additional plaintiffs can be added to the lawsuit should this ever be necessary, and that our aim has always been to include affidavits from people who span a range of differing characteristics.”
Since you still have a concern, I spoke to Mr. Arvay again, explained again to him that some supporters are still worried that if the unthinkable happens and the Obama budget proposal passes, the lawsuit could be negatively impacted because our two Plaintiffs are “duals at birth”.
He repeated to me what I said above and also added that we only need a single (just one) Plaintiff with some standing. If our plaintiffs lose standing for any reason then we add a new Plaintiff with standing (by the way, I have offered myself as a Plaintiff). He also repeated that our lawsuit addresses different harms by including a variety of Witnesses (as I have already said) who have different characteristics.
I am guessing that you feel that that it is still better to have the “security” of multiple plaintiffs now rather than add new plaintiffs later should it become necessary. I will defer to Mr. Arvay on this legal point. Also, I am the fellow who has to ask Canadians to be plaintiffs and put their financial lives on the line — and would only ask for more Plaintiffs if it were critical to the lawsuit.
— On the subject of Witnesses:
Canadians please remember — witnesses do not have the financial liability (part of Government legal costs if we lose) of Ginny and Gwen, but their names will be disclosed. We have some brave Canadians willing to go public and be Witnesses, but I will be asking again for more Witnesses spanning the range of characteristics willing to be part of the lawsuit. If interested, send me an email.
From nervousinvestor on another thread:
http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20150215/focus/focus5.html
Are we going to let IRS thugs like Horton, Jackson & Abramitis huff and puff and try to blow down our resolve to strike back at US worldwide tax tyranny? Or are we going to use this as an incentive to continue to donate? I know what I’m going to do.
Is there a photo coming?
THANK YOU to our New Zealand friend. It warms the cockles of my heart that a Canadian lawsuit evokes such support from other parts of the world.
@EmBee, I was trying to insert a photo of one of the plaintiffs but failed and instead inserted some text by mistake which I deleted. GwEvil will have to help me with the photo. This photo should also warm the cockles of your kind heart.
@Stephen Kish
Thank you for the above reply and thank you for obtaining further clarification from Mr. Arvay.
Would you be willing to consider making the answers you wrote above as a stand alone post because the questions I had asked were not mine alone?
At least one other Brocker brought to my attention these issues via another website and while doing so indicated that others had the same concerns as well.