Dear Supporters,
Many of you probably predicted that I would not be saying this today, but this message is not a dream: You came up with yet another $100,000 payment — now making a total of $400,000 provided to the Arvay team.
In the last twelve days you actually donated more than $40,000 — an amazing achievement for small donors. This accomplishment proves to all those people who want us to fail — that we are very determined.
You gave until it hurt and then you gave a lot more. It’s hard not to get teary-eyed over the generosity of our supporters, who have come through every time.
We know that the pace of your litigation is painfully slow, and this is unfortunately as expected. The Government will continue to do its best to slow down the process, but we now have the assistance of a case management judge to help keep the process moving more fairly.
We filed in August 2014 and it has taken a very long time (one year) before we are finally into a (summary) trial (August 4-5, 2015). We cannot predict the outcomes of this trial, based on only part of our arguments and, with your continued support, we will prepare for all possibilities.
[Happy birthday Gwen!]
Thank you for your trust,
Stephen Kish,
ADCS-ADSC Chair,— on behalf of Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, their families, and the ADCS-ADSC Directors
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Chers amis et donateurs,
Certains d’entre vous avaient probablement pensé que je ne pourrais pasvous annoncer une si bonne nouvelle aujourd’hui. Mais voilà : ensemble, nous avons réussi à ramasser un autre montant de 100 000 $, ce qui fait un total de 400 000 $ à remettre à l’équipe de MeArvay.
Dans les 12 derniers jours seulement, vous avez donné plus de 40 000 $, un exploit tout à fait extraordinaire pour des « petits donateurs ». À tous ceux qui souhaitent nous voir échouer, cette réussite prouve que nous sommes des plus déterminés. Et que nous réussirons.
Vous avez donné jusqu’à ce que ça fasse mal, puis vous avez donné encore. Difficile de rester insensible devant une si grande générosité.
Nous sommes bien conscients du fait que notre litige avance de façon péniblement lente. Malheureusement, tout ça est normal. Le gouvernement continue à ralentirle processus, mais on nous a maintenant attitré un juge responsable de la gestion de notre dossier qui veillera à ce que le processus progresse de façon plus juste.
En août 2014, nous avons engagé une poursuite contre le gouvernement canadien. Près d’un an plus tard, nous avons enfin la date pour notre procès sommaire : les 4 et 5 août 2015. Impossible de prévoir le dénouement de ce procès, basé uniquement sur une partie de nos arguments juridiques. Mais avec votre appui, nous serons prêts pour toutes les possibilités.
(Bonne fête, Gwen !)
Au nom de nos deux plaignantes, Ginny et Gwen, de leurs familles et des directeurs de l’ADCS-ADSC, je vous remercie de votre confiance.
Stephen Kish,
Président de l’ADCS-ADSC
@Wondering
If it takes four years then you can count on two things from me:
I will continue–as long as I have money–to support this effort financially for the full four years.
And I will continue for the full four years to push everyone to move faster.
Count on four years of donations and four years of impatience from me. It’s a package deal. Deal with it.
I’m well aware of how long it takes to resolve legal issues. I’ve fought several during my day. And I’m also aware that it is only by pushing the lawyers that it takes four years rather than ten years.
@ Stephen Kish
RE: “… but Mr. EmBee’s has not yet made it to our post office (Postmaster General appointed by Mr. Harper?”
He says that given there was a 4 day Easter break in there he will wait a couple of days before going to the bank to get a reissue on the money order. I hope that won’t be necessary but we’ll see. The amount was 25 “purples”.
Harper better not mess with our “purples” bearing Sir John A. MacDonald’s portrait. He removed all previous PM portraits from the HofC lobby and replaced them with his own …
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=9c6b53f6-f0a2-4eca-93bb-559023144731
Today is Thomas Jefferson’s birthday — April 13, 1743. Amazingly he died on July 4,1826. Neither he nor Sir John A. MacDonald would like how the worms are turning the world these days.
Dash You sound like you may live in the USA. Therefore you may be in a bad situation. I think that it extremely likely that any Canadian government will use the non withstanding clause, if the USA applies the 30% sanction in the case of a successful supreme court challenge. Tell me in the next 24 hours, if you want me to go through that the analysis? I do not want to waste my time with anyone else.
Thanks Dash!
I’m in this for the long term as a supporter as well.
I support this action not only because its right; I support it because it’s interesting.
It also helps that Joe Arvay is one of my Canadian heroes.
It’s not usually a problem motivating one’s own lawyers, especially as a plaintiff (the ball is in your court). Dragging things out is standard defense tactic.
However, typically, time is on the side of defendants; plaintiffs move on, priorities change, get a pound of flesh from the defendants, make your point and move on…
But in this this matter there is no middle ground. And more time = more Canadians getting screwed over by banks due to place of birth. The more time passes, the more Canadians affected by this.
The challenge is reaching the hundreds of thousands of Canadians who will be afflicted. Only time can deliver those supporters. But they HAVE to know where to turn…
By the time this case gets to a high court, the present government in Canada may be dissolved. Any kind of minority government would make invoking the “notwithstanding” clause difficult.
Finally, more time gives the US time and space to screw things up as well. The IGAs have made the IRS (a beleaguered and demoralized agency) beholden to EVERY foreign state that was coerced into an IGA.
Do you think Germany .. or France … or the UK … will let that part of the deal slide? How will the US handle its commitments in this complex and unprecedented deal?
This will become a partisan issue. And the Republicans smell blood in the water regarding FATCA.
Very intriguing, Wondering. We wait, and we watch, but will many nations be willing to hold the US to its lack of FATCA reciprocity?
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/02/04/will-canada-turn-a-blind-eye-to-the-igas-faux-reciprocity/
It takes more than the Isaac Brock members to gather so much money. Which is why I think it is imperative that something happens in the press/media. It might take years to resolve this case- but the publicity of the case is necessary to fan the flames and keep the donations coming. If it just got started and made headlines, I think a massive inflow of funds would occur- perhaps even from those who are Canadians only but interested in upholding the Charter of Canada. This case is about the general principle of what is a country`s constitution worth?! ( And do we sell our human rights and justice system to the highest bidder?)
Is it $50,079 or $52,079?
@EmBee, it is $49,229 because we just had some very nice donations from two supporters who, like many, have stayed with us from the beginning.
Even better! 🙂
@George 3rd
It is slightly–but not much–more than 24 hours since you posted. I’m not too clear, though, what analysis you propose to perform. Can you give me more details? I’m also not sure how you imagine the notwithstanding clause might be invoked in case of a successful Supreme Court challenge–though I would not put it past the Canadian government, especially the current incumbent, to have something up their sleeve in that regard. Yes I live in the USA. Originally from Canada and now a dual citizen. Love the people of both countries but have serious reservations about the directions of both governments.
On behalf of US persons elsewhere (I’m in the EU) I would like to say that the only hope of something big happening is in Canada, because only in your country are there enough US persons to have an impact. Elsewhere we can get individually screwed and nobody cares.
So I’ve donated twice, and desperately hope to see that thermometer rise.
Pingback: Update: Our Submission to “educate” the @SenateFinance Committee on #citizenshiptaxation – delivered | Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty
@George 3rd
BTW–I’m not sure if the US tax deadline of April 15 had something to do with your “24 hour” thing? US tax filing is something I do without any problems–in addition to a general sense that it is unjust to many, FATCA affects me personally because it makes financial planning for a possible return to Canada in the future very difficult. But the tax deadline itself isn’t a big deal. Even for those in Canada deemed to be “US persons”, that actual tax filing is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the problems. Many are not considered to owe any tax (although some do) but even if you owe no tax the problems created by FATCA run the risk of being life altering.
@ wondering… thanks for your most interestingpost. of “Do you think Germany .. or France … or the UK … will let that part of the deal slide?” ……… my take as US renunciant living in UK andpaying UK taxes for three decades……….. is ………. nope. they woint let it slide. ………..UK wlll let it live for now as they smell “blood in water” of dozens of offshore terrs fearing tax haven destination= potential £££ inf;low to UK but ………….. so these “islands” cave. with fear of tarbrush….let me be clear that this statement is made on basis of UKRBT……………….2x best chances for UK in global individual tax resp debate……..are BoJo US pspt renounce and CamOsb realize that RBT MAKES MONEY and moreover MAKES PRESTIGE!!!
@ crystal london
I kind of don’t understand your comment. Were you using a smart phone to type it?
I will problem rewrite tomorrow hockey playoff are on now. Got to go.
Dash
Before I go to far, I should point out that by donating to Supreme court Challenge, the IRS will not allow you to use the I did not know about FBAR excuse. I hope you did not use paypal or a US bank for donations. They do not have any protection from IRS. Paypal is the worse as it would be easy for USA to get a list of all donors using paypal.
Ok ( I hate writing on this small box and My word process copy and paste is a mess with this website.)my analysis is based on the following.
t I think any Canadian Government will apply non withsatnding if USA apply the 30% sanction. Other party may negotiate a worse deal (similar to some European IGA). The Liberal and NDP are friends of Obama they would have not negotiated a better deal. In 1995 the Liberal allowed USA to collect from non Canadian citizen (at time tax occurred). This did not occur with almost all other countries. Party out of power always make promises they know they can not keep. You also remember when Chretian said he was going to get rid of GST. Paul Martin apologized but Chretian kept a straight face when he said he harmonized with provincial taxes.
A)If a Canadian Supreme Court case is won Obama will apply sanctions. If he allows Canadian out of FATCA he will have to allow other countries opt out.
Obama does not believe in advise and consent regarding the Republican congress I really do not have to list the various items. He even had no use with the US Supreme Court when it ruled against of him in citizen united, http://www.cbsnews.com/news/alito-winces-as-obama-slams-supreme-court-ruling/
http://dailysignal.com/2015/01/25/obama-keeps-repeating-this-same-false-claim-about-citizens-united-decision/
He does not have to abide by Canadian Supreme Court and will apply 30% sanctions.
He also believe in what he thinks is tax fairness,. When Charlie Gibson ABC news told him a reduction in capital gains tax rate increased tax revenue he said he did not care. http://townhall.com/columnists/larryelder/2012/11/22/so_what_if_taxing_rich_hurts_the_economy/page/full
In truth capital gain and dividend are double taxation so any honest person with mathematical ability knows that.
B) First on why I think any Canadian Government will use the non withstanding clause on a Supreme Court Challenge
1) Canada is heavily dependent on USA for trade we trade hard to move commodity to our nearest newest neighbours. Transportation cost on commodities is very expensive.
The USA can import commodity from around the world and the environmentalist would love to see all our tar sand production shut down. Obama prefer buying oil from Saudi Arabia over Canada. Canadian companies and their employees do not want the 30% withholding. The industry representative was in lock step with the Canadian Banker association on this issue. Importer would also be hit by this issue.
We have a trade surplus and we mainly buy stuff like I phone and financial product from them. These item are specific to USA. Evening trading with FATCA countries may require the 30% witholding.
2) Million of Canadian have investment in USA. The USA market has outperformed Canada for years plus it allow people diversification which is very important for investor. They do not want the 30% withholding.
3) The USA is Canada no 1 tourist destination and Canaian do not want to pay 30% witholding on USA dollars
The Canadian Government gave explicit cover to 1 million snowbirds they also do not require green carder or people who have relinquished but who have not completed the exit tax as non US person even though according to IRS the latter 2 and some of the first group may be considered US person.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/nhncdrprtng/fq-eng.html#q2-5
In fact based on the reading of this and the IGA you do not have to be tax compliant to be consider a non US person for tax purpose according to FATCA.
“19. Does the agreement require Canadian financial institutions to report to the CRA on any individuals who relinquished their U.S. citizenship?
No. Canadian financial institutions do not have to report on any individuals who have relinquished their U.S. citizenship and are not residents of the U.S.
Financial institutions may ask individuals who have relinquished their U.S. citizenship for documentation to this effect. ”
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/nhncdrprtng/fq-eng.html#q2-5
Of course if you have done a CLN but not done all the taxes you should not cross the border. Some of European IGA does not use this definition and you have to tax compliant to be considered a non US person.
4) The USA financial market supply a lot of the capital for mortgages in Canada, If this dried up interest rates will rise in Canada, These USA investor can go to a lot of other countries
5.Based on item 1-4 once it explained. There would a massive popular support to use the non withstanding clause by people hurt by the IGA being overturned. Look at what happened with other countries.
How well did the Swiss attempt of the referendum turn out? Russia made certain it had an IGA signed even though it was facing lesser sanction for Ukraine. Carl Levin did not want the Russian IGA signed because of Ukraine. Putin does not like USA he keeps Snowden but he signs an IGA. Consider the implication.
6) Some people think that if the IGA is overturned the banks will ignore searching for USA person. They will have to search and use much harsher method than what is in IGA. The IGA uses the weakest definition for American person. The IGA protect the registered disability plan whereas no IGA a bunch of registered plans have to be reported. The banks may questioned everybody with an American accent with no IGA. Under the IGA you can go back to CRA and show why you are not an US person. No IGA it goes straight to IRS. Without an IGA the banks would still report or face 30% witholding but it would be a real mess and even worse for USA persons.
7) Obama can not let Canadian Banks off the hook because he has then have at allow all other banks off the hook. Repeat phrase from above.
The Liberal and NDP are friends of Obama they would have not negotiated a better deal. In 1995 the Liberal allowed USA to collect from non Canadian citizen (at time tax occurred). This did not occur with almost all other countries.
8) Obama could not care less what the Canadian Supreme court does. A bunch of government complained but they were forced to sign because of the USA reserve currency status. Look he does not care what the US congress (amnesty for illegal aliens, passing the IGA as foreign treaties need 66 votes). They are supposed to be equal if not the superior branch of government.
“The Constitution does not explicitly indicate the pre-eminence of any particular branch of government. However, James Madison wrote in Federalist 51, regarding the ability of each branch to defend itself from actions by the others, that “it is not possible to give to each department an equal power of self-defense. In republican government, the legislative authority necessarily predominates.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers_under_the_United_States_Constitution
@Georgeiii
I am exempt from filing FBAR’s, etc, because I have never in my life had more than $10,000 USD in a bank or other financial institution outside the USA. I am working to change a bad law but will abide by the law until it has changed–and because I have chosen to live in the USA I do feel that (unlike people living in Canada) I have an ethical obligation to abide by US law. Those who live in Canada and gain no benefit from their “US personhood” have no such ethical obligation IMHO.
As for the other consequences you mention, many of your points have considerable validity, but there is no rule that says Canada can’t work to negotiate a better deal with the USA than other countries have. Traditionally Canadians have indeed enjoyed US privileges that other countries don’t have. Canadians can stay longer in the USA without a visa than any other nationality. Canadians–at least in certain fields–have options for working legally in the USA that no other nationality enjoys. Donations to Canadian universities are tax deductible in the USA. At least in some US states, Canadian provincial driver’s licenses can be exchanged like any other US state license–although this is more at the state/provincial level.
There is a long tradition of Canadian prime ministers negotiating good deals for Canadians with US presidents. This lawsuit, for me, is partly about nudging a future Canadian prime minister to grow a pair and negotiate a better deal with a future US president.
I don’t know who the actual president or prime minister will be though. As we’ve often been assured, this is a marathon, not a sprint, and I expect that by the time the s**t really hits the fan, Obama will be out of there, and I hope Harper will be gone too.
So yes–this lawsuit is a serious matter and will have serious consequences–you are right about that–but I believe the concerns you mention can be addressed by any Canadian prime minister who has or grows a pair.
@GeorgeIII
“Obama can not let Canadian Banks off the hook because he has then have at allow all other banks off the hook.”
I’m not sure why this would be the case. Of course I hope other countries will also fight harder for better treatment but foreign policy isn’t about treating all countries the same. Close trading partners and longtime allies should indeed be treated differently than bitter enemies–although I’d add that FATCA is bad enough I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.
Regarding “growing a pair”, I quote comedian Sheng Wang: ‘Why do people say grow some balls? Balls are weak and sensitive. If you wanna be tough, grow a vagina. Those things can take a pounding.’ (falsely attributed to actress Betty White).
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/uuwzqz/comedy-central-presents-grow-a-pair
I think today’s ADCS update on their submissions to the Seanate Finance Committee should be referenced in a new, separate post here. (Maybe I missed it somewhere?)
https://adcsovereignty.wordpress.com/2015/04/15/update-our-submission-to-educate-the-senatefinance-committee-on-citizenshiptaxation-delivered/
I spotted a comment on this in the comments window earlier today, and have been reading off and on. These are excellent submissions, of course, and should be easily accessible. At the above link, scroll down to April 15th (which should have a big, bold, black subtitle to really stand out).
Thank you, John, Stephen, Trish, and everyone else for preparing these and submitting them today!
@Barbara
Women have a pair of nads too they are just internal for women and external for men.
Thanks for your comment here, canoe.
Hopefully, Tricia will post here at Brock soon. She has it now at Maple Sandbox: http://maplesandbox.ca/2015/we-delivered-monumental-submission-to-senate-finance-committee-fight-cbt/.
A big thanks from me also to John, Stephen and Tricia. (Hopefully, they can now take a short breather.) The incredible work they have put into this on behalf of all of us, while never slacking up on the goal in soliciting donations to meet the deadlines and support the challenge for plaintiffs, Gwen and Ginny, as well as their other submissions to governments and possible second litigation in the US — WAY OVER AND ABOVE ALL EXPECTATIONS. May the Richardson Kish submission to the Senate Finance Committee, all parts of it, be read and distributed far and wide. It tells our story well.
How can we thank them: let’s get that thermometer where it needs to be for the May 1, 2015 payment for the Canadian litigation.
New word of the day for oldsters like me – NADS (as in pair of). Let’s all, whatever gender, grow what’s needed to make the May 1st, 2015 payment.