Dear Supporters,
Many of you probably predicted that I would not be saying this today, but this message is not a dream: You came up with yet another $100,000 payment — now making a total of $400,000 provided to the Arvay team.
In the last twelve days you actually donated more than $40,000 — an amazing achievement for small donors. This accomplishment proves to all those people who want us to fail — that we are very determined.
You gave until it hurt and then you gave a lot more. It’s hard not to get teary-eyed over the generosity of our supporters, who have come through every time.
We know that the pace of your litigation is painfully slow, and this is unfortunately as expected. The Government will continue to do its best to slow down the process, but we now have the assistance of a case management judge to help keep the process moving more fairly.
We filed in August 2014 and it has taken a very long time (one year) before we are finally into a (summary) trial (August 4-5, 2015). We cannot predict the outcomes of this trial, based on only part of our arguments and, with your continued support, we will prepare for all possibilities.
[Happy birthday Gwen!]
Thank you for your trust,
Stephen Kish,
ADCS-ADSC Chair,— on behalf of Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, their families, and the ADCS-ADSC Directors
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Chers amis et donateurs,
Certains d’entre vous avaient probablement pensé que je ne pourrais pasvous annoncer une si bonne nouvelle aujourd’hui. Mais voilà : ensemble, nous avons réussi à ramasser un autre montant de 100 000 $, ce qui fait un total de 400 000 $ à remettre à l’équipe de MeArvay.
Dans les 12 derniers jours seulement, vous avez donné plus de 40 000 $, un exploit tout à fait extraordinaire pour des « petits donateurs ». À tous ceux qui souhaitent nous voir échouer, cette réussite prouve que nous sommes des plus déterminés. Et que nous réussirons.
Vous avez donné jusqu’à ce que ça fasse mal, puis vous avez donné encore. Difficile de rester insensible devant une si grande générosité.
Nous sommes bien conscients du fait que notre litige avance de façon péniblement lente. Malheureusement, tout ça est normal. Le gouvernement continue à ralentirle processus, mais on nous a maintenant attitré un juge responsable de la gestion de notre dossier qui veillera à ce que le processus progresse de façon plus juste.
En août 2014, nous avons engagé une poursuite contre le gouvernement canadien. Près d’un an plus tard, nous avons enfin la date pour notre procès sommaire : les 4 et 5 août 2015. Impossible de prévoir le dénouement de ce procès, basé uniquement sur une partie de nos arguments juridiques. Mais avec votre appui, nous serons prêts pour toutes les possibilités.
(Bonne fête, Gwen !)
Au nom de nos deux plaignantes, Ginny et Gwen, de leurs familles et des directeurs de l’ADCS-ADSC, je vous remercie de votre confiance.
Stephen Kish,
Président de l’ADCS-ADSC
@Publius, re: “In other news, someone broke a bank’s front window in Thailand today and the bank said it was because of FATCA. ” Expect more of this.
@publius, “The articles suggest that a completely non-U.S. person’s estate would owe tax on U.S. assets, although the media have been wrong in the past. Does anyone know for sure?”
The media look confused on the details but broadly right on what can happen.
If your country has an estate tax treaty with the US then you generally get a decent allowance, typically some X/N of the $5mm or so available to US citizens, where X is your US situs assets and N your worldwide assets (so if you keep everything in the US you get the full $5mm).
If your country doesn’t have an estate tax treaty, then you may be on the hook for actual estate tax if you hold more than $60k, because that’s all the US allows for non-treaty countries. Residents of countries without a US estate tax treaty should definitely avoid holding US assets (even things as apparently vanilla as US-domiciled ETFs, for example).
There are many fewer countries with estate tax treaties with the US than those with ‘normal’ tax treaties, but both Italy and France have US estate tax treaties, which is where the articles look to go astray (particularly the Italian one — what’s with the 1mm euro?). Either way though, you may have to file a 706na with the IRS before they’ll release funds, and their time to process these is normally 6 to 9 months.
Duke of Devon is right that very few people know about this potential mantrap. He’s also right that a 706na is intrusive and time consuming. I know because I’ve done one. It sucks.
@ WhiteKat,
My understanding is that any US estate taxes paid (to the US, of course) are NOT in anyway offset/forgiven in relation to Canadian final deemed disposition taxes (paid to Canada) when you die in Canada. In other words, the normal “while alive” Cdn-US tax treaty (allowing reduction of what you pay here based on what you paid there), DOES NOT APPLY. These final costs are cumulative and can take away a large portion of one’s estate if the estate has not been properly organized (that is, totally/almost totally out of the US stock market except through exempt Cdn mutual funds and buying international companies which have ADL shares offered in the US). [I used to know what ADL stands for, but IBS-brain-fever has pushed this info too far back in the far reaches. Sorry]
@LM, For Australia – say living in Australia with US assets, the US death tax on US assets is a fixed amount say 40%, and for US purposes the cost basis gets reset. Australia does not have a death tax but any assets passed on are passed on with their original cost basis. So the US 40% may apply without any credit against Australian death tax (as Australia does not have this), AND, I believe for Australian tax purposes any inheritors may have extra tax if they dispose based on the original tax basis. So kind of a double taxation. Yet, as we have learned out of it all that the US is the largest tax haven country and how is your home country going to find out details about these assets?
A Tribute to @Embee who has over the months entertained us with pictures and songs related to the injustices.
@JC
In regards to the quote above, I reference the song by Pink Floyd in The Wall album, “Another Brick in The Wall pt 2′”
The Wall in this case: The Financial Berlin Wall that the US has built to keep its citizens in via harsh punishments in compliance and tax against those subjects who have taken what they thought was the liberty to venture abroad and live abroad.
Back to the song…
“If you don’t complete your forms, you can’t have any pudding. How can you
have any pudding if you don’t complete your forms?”
Australian citizen only: I am not going to complete that ##!@2! ! form! Nothing in this for me.
“All in all it was just a break in the wall.”
“Your donation to ADCS another break in the wall.”
Watcher is correct about US holdings being in a ratio to total holdings for estate tax purposes.
Here is one explanation:
http://www.pwc.com/ca/en/tax-insights/estate-tax-update-us-tax-exposure-canadians.jhtml
LM – Best guess: your vaguely recalled “ADL” should be ADR = American Depository Receipt. If so, not sure this structure does what you think it will.
The principles voiced in this video are worth sharing with the entire world … warning … they are NOT sweet-talking to President Obama … These principles are however applicable to EVERY leader world wide and are principles EVERY person worldwide should strive for …. Harper needs to LOVE Canada and reject incursions like FATCA.
@JC
So, like in Canada, “US Persons” in Australia are double taxed upon death.
In Canada, because of final-year “deemed disposition” tax on all taxable assets (e.g. stock capital gains), this double taxation occurs at the time of estate settlement whereas it sounds like in Australia the second (duplicate, on the same assets) taxation may occur sometime in near or far into the future when the taxable asset is sold. Have I understood this right?
In either case, reduction of one’s estate following all these death taxes can be a pretty large percentage.
Better, perhaps, to carefully give away one’s estate before death…….
@USXCanada
Yes, yes, thank you – – ADR = American Depository Receipt.
You say “….., not sure this structure does what you think it will.” Please expand.
I was REPEATEDLY assured by my financial advisor that ADR investments – a form of stock purchase of a non-US company’s stock through a US stock market (e.g. the New York Stock Exchange) WOULD NOT incur any US estate tax or US estate tax filing requirement.
If this is not the case, please provide further info / detail / links. Many thanks.
@LM, this may help:
http://www.internationallawoffice.com/newsletters/detail.aspx?g=ff8c24f3-8ef9-4341-8bca-73933cc8fc7c
“IRS Confirms that American Depositary Receipts are Non-US Situs Property”
Discusses among other things relating to US Estate Taxes, ADR: http://www.taxtips.ca/personaltax/usestatetax.htm
Are exchange-traded funds (ETFs) and American Depositary Receipts (ADRs) subject to US estate tax?
The U.S. Internal Revenue Code s. 2104 states that “shares of stock owned and held by a nonresident not a citizen of the United States shall be deemed property within the United States only if issued by a domestic corporation”.
IRS ruling letter 200243031 (pdf) indicates that American Depositary Receipts (ADRs) would not be subject to US estate tax when held by a non-resident of the US.
It appears that US ETFs trading on a US exchange would be considered US-situated assets, but Canadian ETFs holding US stocks would not be considered US-situated assets. At this point, we’re not sure if this is only applicable to US ETFs holding US stocks, or would also apply to US ETFs holding foreign stocks.
@ Watcher
Many thanks for the link. And good for us all to know.
@ Calgary 411
And thanks to you, too. Guess we should all stay with Canadian-offered/Canadian-traded ETFs.
Who would have thought at age almost 3 score and ten that I would be so focused on tax law….. YIKES!
I do believe that non-US ETFs are in the same category as non-US mutual funds and attract the PFIC tax treatment by the IRS if you file US taxes as a non resident. You can’t invest in US funds and the US punishes you for investing in non-US funds, talk about a rock and a hard place for those trying to be US tax compliant.
I came across this, which made me question whether the Canadian federal government could have asked the Supreme court a *’reference question’ prior to signing the FATCA IGA. Instead, it decided to misuse and abuse our own taxpayer dollars against us, trampling our Charter, constitutional and legal rights using our own money and that of our fellow Canadians.
See this description of a *”reference question”:
*”A reference question is a submission by either the federal or provincial government that asks the courts for advice on a major legal issue. A court does not rule on a reference question. Rather, the question results in an “advisory opinion” that guides the government in determining a law’s meaning or the constitutionality[1] of a proposed course of action. A court’s answer to a reference question is not binding.
The Supreme Court of Canada (SCC) hears reference questions from the federal government.”
…”Only governments can initiate reference questions. They cannot be initiated by private individuals or groups, but a court’s advice often impacts these stakeholder groups.[7] Once a court receives a reference question request from the government, it first decides whether it will hear it. For example, a court may decide to hear questions involving unresolved legal issues of interest to Canadians, but it may refuse to hear questions that can be heard as a case in lower courts or questions that are no longer relevant.[8] The guidelines for federal government reference question submissions are stated in section 53 of the Supreme Court Act, which discusses the processes for referring certain questions for judicial opinion.[9] The guidelines for provincial or territorial submissions occur within that jurisdiction’s own legislation.
Reference questions are an effective tool in Canadian law. They can influence political and societal norms. “……….
..”Reference questions also provide timely, authoritative and cost-effective advice on the constitutionality of proposed legislation. Obtaining a court’s opinion by reference procedure is far less costly than a future constitutional challenge once a law has been passed.[12] And although courts’ reference opinions are not legally binding, to date no government has ignored them.[13]”…….
http://ualawccsprod.srv.ualberta.ca/ccs/index.php/pr/776-reference-question
I am hoping that the ADCS challenge will also receive assistance from like minded parties as allies http://ualawccsprod.srv.ualberta.ca/ccs/index.php/constitutional-issues/democratic-governance/787-constitutional-challenges-public-interest-standing.
ADCS has amply proven its viability. It has been no mean feat for the organizers to create, organize, manage, crowdfund, and maintain this challenge. It is time for other groups to assist in defending Canada’s sovereignty – to step forward and help defend Canada against US extraterritorial incursions and predations. This time, it is the US Treasury threat directed against the legal local assets of Canadian families and our Charter and constitutional rights as Canadian citizens and permanent residents.
Organizations like the Council of Canadians, CCLA, etc. have to ask themselves; if FATCA is unopposed by them, what will the US demand from Canada next?
@badger
The Harper government’s choice to refrain from asking the Supreme Court about the FATCA IGA’s constitutionality might be because they felt it is, or didn’t care that it isn’t.
@All:
Is there an opportunity to earn contributions to the Challenge case fees on https://www.tsu.co/
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4086739352001/turn-your-social-media-posts-into-a-paycheck/?#sp=show-clips
@Badger. The Canadian government still could ask The Supreme Court of Canada a reference question about FATCA and the Charter. However, one may imagine that the case brought forward by Litigator Joseph Arvay may in a far better way illustrate the injustices than any reference question by the government.
I did not know that. I believe in the US there is no procedure for a reference question by The Executive or The Legislative Branches to the Supreme Court. Consequences are that The Executive and Legislature may disrespect/ignore the Constitution and wait for a court case to work itself up to The Supreme Court, before the Court may tell the Executive/Legislature how to do their jobs. Another aspect of this weakness in the balance of powers is that it may take years for the Supreme Court to hear a case, and the incredible expense and time involved mean that ‘liberty and justice for all’ excludes the many who can’t afford it in time and money.
@Watcher
Thank you. It is really horrible that people are being told things about the law by journalists that make it seem even worse than it is (or better for that matter). Thank you for clarifying the matter.
Concerning citizenship-based taxation, what if a German couple in Germany with no connection to the United States decided to adopt an American child. Would they then be subject to IRS taxation? (I suppose the answer is rather obvious.)
@Duality
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2011/12/30/important-information-for-canadians-who-have-adopted-a-child-from-the-usa-or-who-intend-to-do-so/
@Bubblebustin
Many thanks. What goes through the twisted mind of an IRS agent is beyond anyone’s comprehension…
There’s lots to think about with the ACA Global video PARTLY coming out … FINALLY. I’m savoring the thinking and relishing the comments, however my ears keep hearing a clock ticking as my eyes keep seeing the number of days until May 1st rapidly decreasing. After Mr. EmBee and I broke through the latest snowfall here this morning, a trip to the Post Office became our next task. If anyone on the ADCS team has their eyes on the clock or calendar like me you might feel a little better knowing there are TWO envelopes on their way today.
Mr. and Mrs. EmBee — you are beyond amazing. We all thank you and hopefully most will continue to follow your lead.
In case anyone encountered a problem with the Donate button, I have now fixed it. I was alerted to the problem a few minutes ago. I had just updated the site around half an hour ago, so the button hasn’t been down too long. Whoever was planning to donate and wasn’t able to, please do go ahead and do so now 😀