We delivered! Monumental effort 2 demonstrate harm 2 #Americansabroad submitted 2 Senate Finance Committee http://t.co/carqgGs6lj #FightCBT
— Patricia Moon (@nobledreamer16) April 15, 2015
UPDATE April 16 2015
As John Richardson is the principal author of our submission, I spoke with him about the idea of turning it into an ebook. He very much appreciates all your kind comments and most of all, your positive energy. We will definitely make this into an ebook; he would like this endeavor to be consistent with our recent as well as past submissions.
With this is mind, we want to detail and describe the tragic impact of U.S. extra-territorial taxation on people deemed by the U.S. to be #Americansabroad. This would include: accidentals, (oops, non-meaningfuls, sorry Stephen, it’s a habit), border babies, via parents or grandparents or outright USCs, dual or not We want to know what you think is important, what needs to be added and so on. If you didn’t write your story before, now would be a good time to do so. Also, if you are on Twitter and not currently active or connected at the moment to our Twitter SWAT team, please get in touch with me either at the email below or tweet me at USExpatCanada. We need to be aware of this whole effort as one large, evolving submission which will serve as our base for the sole purpose of bringing down citizenship-based taxation. We want to keep moving on this project and get going on a few new aspects of it right away so stay tuned!
us.expatcanada at gmail dot com
@USExpatCanada – #Fight CBT (please start using this hashtag!)
We did it! Just as promised by John Richardson our submission to the Senate Finance Committee is signed, sealed and delivered….Remember this? :
I also made it clear that Dr. Kish and I would be taking the initiative to “educate” the Committee about:
– what “citizenship taxation” really is; and
– the true effects that it has on “Americans” (recognizing that many of you do NOT consider yourselves to be U.S. citizens) in Canada and elsewhere.
I am happy to report to you that on February 14, 2015 the videos were made as planned.
I am happy to report that on April 9, 2014 Dr. Kish and I met with representatives of the Senate Finance Committee and had a “productive discussion”.
I am happy to report that, today, April 15, 2015 our submission to the Senate Finance Committee (consisting of a total of 7 separate submissions on various topics) has been delivered. One of the submissions was the text of the “Human Rights complaint to the United Nations“. We acknowledge the tremendous work that went into the creation and submission of the complaint.
We encourage you to look at our complete “Folder of Submissions” as follows:
https://app.box.com/s/yn25x1gketbzrkqp2ghu5sbce7mqoynu
I want to remind you that this is going to be a “slow process”. Be patient. Keep yourselves focused on the “long term” goal. The key is to remain patient and focused.
For all who submitted comments to be included, please see here.
Thank you so much for all who took the time to send in your letters & comments in support of this project. Please spend time and explore all seven of the submissions as each is a very important component of demonstrating to the US government how perverse and discriminatory U.S. Tax policy is, not only against U.S. Persons, but to every country and person who is connected to one. We need residence-based taxation. We want the ability to make use of our tax-deferred savings vehicles in our countries of choice. We deserve the right to have our bank accounts free from the prying eyes of FinCen. We demand the recognition that we are not tax cheats and traitors. We insist that the privacy rights of our “alien” spouses and children be respected. For those who cannot act on their own behalf, we must have the ability to make choices free of imposed US citizenship be it from immigration or tax status.
It is time. The U.S.must start living up to its claim of being the land of freedom and opportunity. It must address its own areas of human rights violations and act in the best interests of all. We will not be satisfied nor stop until we receive exactly that.
@ JC Did you see Stephen Kish’s commment earlier in this thread. He actually ended the meeting stating what action they planned to take if their suggestions were not implemented.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/04/16/we-delivered-monumental-submission-to-senate-finance-committee-fight-cbt/comment-page-1/#comment-5976325
JC: Thank you again for all your support re: the Human Rights Complaint. It really is too bad that we couldn’t give more specific, individual examples of the abuse we are suffering. We included some examples in the reference links but the submission already exceeded the recommended length by several pages. If the Complaint was to have been further altered it would have had to be cut rather than added to. We couldn’t adequately explain our position any more succinctly than we already had so we decided to take our chances and send it as it was.
Yes, you are right that our cause may have gone to the bottom of the UN’s pile because, no, we aren’t starving or facing physical torture, etc. (although that may be debatable!) But what we really want is to get the attention of the United States government. They haven’t been hearing us so far so maybe, just maybe, through the offices of momentous submissions such as this entire package (1 – 7), we will finally be noticed. Here’s hoping!
Excellent job and I assume all of the text is done well. I only got through the human rights complaint, which is good. Hope it soon gets acted upon.
This will take some time to go through.
Suggestion: In the Folder of Submissions, may we make the “Main” including Executive Summary first in the folder instead of 3rd. Yes already submitted. Yet for others accessing, such as myself, I did not read the file names and went to the first one and started going through that a few days ago, now days later locking in on “Main.”
Some answer about what the Senate Finance Committee staffers were left with at the end of the meeting:
Good statement of intent. Kind of commits the organisation toward that end and more reason to donate to ADCS. I don’t imagine the staffers would take it as a threat. These legal matters may take years to work up. However, I may imagine that the staffers may have taken the above statement as a statement of resolve and hint that ADCS is not going away any time soon, and that they had better not think that ADCS is going away anytime soon.
The FATCA legal suit is more of a threat to the Democrats, in my view. Another 1.5 years down the track (2016 Presidential election) and that suit could be over/really firing up and would highlight another example of Democrat incompetence in their policy making. Already the Democrats are under fire for Obama-care debacle, immigration, and deal with Iran among others. Yet, one might be careful with the Republicans as they may delight in legal action to show the Democrats as weak policy makers. Yet any reversal of FATCA would make the Republicans look relatively better.
@J. Richardson, S. Kish & T. Moon – thank you for this tremendous effort.
@ JC
I put the parts in order here …
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/04/16/we-delivered-monumental-submission-to-senate-finance-committee-fight-cbt/comment-page-2/#comment-5981718
Good article
http://europe.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2015-04/18/content_20468392.htm
Key points:
RMB should be fully convertible by 2020 – only 7 years away not decades.
Over 50% of the world’s GDP is now in the BRICs.
By the end of this decade the US is going to have to start living within its means because loss of sole reserve status will put a limit on the US’ national credit card. The printing presses are going to have to slow down along with the US’ standard of living.
It’s more important the IGA is rule unconstitutional because the US is going to become even hungrier for tax revenue over the next few years thus more likely to abuse US ex-pats.
The US is entering a new financial era sooner than it thinks.
We’ve had it all wrong! Unlike the rest of the world, the US practices taxation-based citizenship.
@Don, “It’s more important the IGA is rule unconstitutional because the US is going to become even hungrier for tax revenue over the next few years thus more likely to abuse US ex-pats.”
I have considered those words for some time now.
I can easily envision some new law wrapped up in the flag like a Liberty Tax which is a property tax on all property/assets held outside the USA.
Bubblebustin: “Taxation-based citizenship”. Wow! Why haven’t we noticed that before? Well done! Actually, this very morning I woke up with the realization that those expat Americans who are quoted in articles or surveys as being perfectly happy and willing to pay their U.S. taxes from “overseas” because “they’re American and they owe it” are actually filing and paying their U.S. taxes *in order to keep their American citizenship*. That is, indeed “taxation-based citizenship” …. which is about as un-American as it gets!
Echoing MuzzledNoMore, great phrase you coined @Bubblebustin, re;
“… “Taxation-based citizenship”..”
Got to get that into common usage! Very insightful and useful turn of phrase.
Thanks!
Leave it to you, dear bubblebustin, one among others of the most creative here, to come up with this descriptive term — CBT turned on its head.
Taxation-Based Citizenship — TBC
Best one yet, Bubblebustin. It expresses perfectly the mindset of the U.S. government and those shadowy figures behind the U.S. government. Americans at home and abroad are nothing but tax fodder (some are both tax and cannon fodder). And they all thought they were being “loved” for their devotion to flag and country.
@George – The USG will continue to abuse ex-pats, but once China’s currency status turns to reserve, the US is going to be forced to collect ‘easy’ revenue domestically. The US Congress can pass any law they want, but ex-pats hiding there cash out of the reach of the IRS (just convert it into gold for the short term if necessary) making collection a long drawn out and expensive operation won’t solve the US’ short term fiscal problems.
At some point the USG is going to have to get real and pass legislation that involve real solutions like a federal VAT. They’ll eventually do it, but not until the fiscal pain increases sufficiently enough to make them act (like the US’ nation credit card limit imposed by reluctance to purchase US bonds in future).
Keep watch once oil and other commodities are being priced in USD and RMB (or maybe only RMB) the game will truly be over for the USG and the post WWII dollar world’s final chapter is closed.
Thanks everybody, but can we make the argument that Taxation-Based Citizenship is correct? I’ve struggled with the term CBT for quite some time and always thought there’s a better, less incriminating way to frame the issue. This all ties into the Human Rights Complaint that I’m actually just reading through now, which is very inspiring in terms of freedom, equality.
I think the argument here would be whether one can still enjoy US citizenship regardless of their personal tax situation. Can someone be denied certain benefits of US citizenship if they aren’t tax compliant?
“Thanks everybody, but can we make the argument that Taxation-Based Citizenship is correct?”
IMHO, it is a catchy phrase, but US citizenship is not based on being a tax payer. One is a US citizen whether tax compliant or not. In other words, the citizenship comes first, then the taxation, not the other way around. If USA really had taxation based citizenship, then since I have never filed US tax returns I would not be a citizen (I wish).
@Dreamer
In 2004 the U.S. established the reality of “Tax Citizen.” Seeing as how one cannot truly be free of U.S. citizenship until both the immigration and tax requirements are satisfied, I think a case could be made for calling it Taxation-Based Citizenship.
@bubblebustin I like it!
Tricia.
Taxation based freedom YES. Not taxation based citizenship.
Trish, please reread what you just wrote.
For so many “accidental Americans” (our children born in other countries to US citizen parent(s) or born in the US to other-country parents but who left the US as infants or minor children to return to their and their parents’ own country) whose ACQUIRED citizenship by birth is non-meaningful, it is certainly taxation based citizenship. (To me, these *non-meaningful’s* should have a CLAIM to US citizenship based on their facts, not ACQUIRED US citizenship — the only reason I can see for their citizenship is the taxation that comes with their acquired citizenship.)
I guess, for the some of the rest of us, with the IGAs that bring FATCA law to our countries to override Canadian / other country laws, our clear freedom is through the maze of US tax compliance ending with the 8854, not necessarily any taxes actually owed.
For others of us, it will be a taxation based freedom only after the horrible US Exit Tax.
HUH?
No wonder they dis us.
or so many “accidental Americans” (our children born in other countries to US citizen parent(s) or born in the US to other-country parents but who left the US as infants or minor children to return to their and their parents’ own country) whose ACQUIRED citizenship by birth is non-meaningful, it is certainly taxation based citizenship.
NO. It is not citizenship based on taxation. WTF?
You guys are confusing. Lets get real here. It is taxation based on citizenship according to what USA defines as citizenship that is the problem here, not citizenship based on taxation.
Dreamer, based upon the origins of this whole thing whatever you call it, it was to penalize Americans who left the USA because they did not want to fight in their civil war. So “taxation of draft dodgers” (TDD).
Stick with that definition then.
My comment was certainly not to confuse you. My opinion is just MY opinion. I can see the absurdity of it all both ways.
(To me, these *non-meaningful’s* should have a CLAIM to US citizenship based on their facts, not ACQUIRED US citizenship. The only motive I can see for the US to bless the *non-meaningful’s* with *automatic* citizenship is the taxation that comes with their acquired citizenship as it is coupled with US CBT. If the US had RBT, as the rest of the world, none of this would be a problem for those residing outside the US.)