I have been absent from the FATCA scene recently. I am back in the states and have been busy preparing to start the PCT hike next week trying to forget this madness. However, I had to fill out my FBAR before I left and file for a tax extension since I won’t be back until the first of September. Then I got two letters from my bank, one in NZ and one at our home back here in the States. It was from the “Foreign Revenue Enquiry Team” who are trying to “cure” their list of potential U.S. Persons.
For your information, here were their lead in paragraphs
“We are writing to ensure we have the latest foreign tax residency information for you as required under the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA).
The foreign Account Tax Compliance Tact is a law from the United States of American that recently came into force. The Act requires Foreign Financial Institutions or their governments to enter into an agreement with the US Internal Revenue Service to determine which accounts are held by US citizens and report certain information about their accounts.
Under an inter-government agreement between New Zealand and the US, all New Zealand Financial Institutions are required to comply with the FATCA legislation. As a New Zealand Financial Institution we are required to collect and retain details from our customers to determine whether they are citizens or tax residents of the US.”
……..(details about why they they had identified us)…………….
Important Information…
If we do not hear from you within 90 days, we will be required to send certain information relating to you and your accounts to the New Zealand Inland Revenue Department, as part of the inter-government agreement between NZ and the US. We recommend that you contact your accountant or tax advisor if you are unsure about your foreign tax obligations.”
Anyway, I don’t have much time to devote to this FATCA crap, as still a lot to get done before I leave, but couldn’t help but send this enclosed letter (copy below) along with my compliance. Does no good, but makes me feel better, and thought I would send along a copy for you if you are interested. I don’t have time to post on IBS, but if someone else wants to, they are more than welcome to use it or not. Just remove the names, thanks.
April 2, 2015
ASB Bank Limited
Foreign Revenue Enquiries Team 6392
P.O. Box 35
Shortland Street
Auckland, New Zealand 1140Gentlemen;
Please find enclosed the Foreign Tax Certification for xxxxxx and xxxxxx, US Citizen and US Permanent Resident of the USA respectfully.
With that designation, we are forever US tax chattel no matter where we live or reside in the world until we renounce citizenship or go through a onerous formal and expensive process. You Kiwis are so lucky the Inland Revenue Department (IRD) doesn’t do this to you!!!!
We received two copies of your form, one in NZ and one at our home in the States where we do reside. We are only returning one signed copy.
It is with reluctance that we send you our social security numbers (SSN) , not because we are trying to avoid tax in the USA. We file dutifully yearly, and our Kerikeri ASB personal banker has been very helpful in producing yearly reports, so we can determine interest earned in a calendar year which is different than your IRD fiscal year process.
However, given the IRS (International Revenue Service) very poor record with SSN security in the USA, and with the rampant ID theft associated with misuse of our SSN, it is very worrying that now we have to give these numbers out to a foreign company, its employees, contractors and IRD to be even more exposed to potential theft and fraud. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT CONCERN? Please assure us of the most stringent security practices for handling these numbers, so our risk doesn’t go up anymore.
The IRS gives away 10s of billions of tax dollars a year fraudulently associated with tax number abuse. It is constantly criticized by the U.S. Treasury Inspector General and Congress for these poor practices which don’t seem to change. FATCA revenue will barely scratch a dent in these loses which, according to Congressional records, will only generate $900 million a year in new revenue for all the disruption this overly complex program is inflicting on the world with its global sanctions for failure to comply. This “Offshore Jihad” by Obama to chase down a few tax cheats living in New York hardly seems worth it, as compared to all the tax dollar fraud “Onshore” in America! But, never mind. Don’t look over there!
Yet, they have convinced you and the IRD (actually lets be truthful, they have extorted you) to ferret out every person they deem to be US TAX RESIDENT even those that are full time Kiwi Citizens and residents living in your lovely country. This will be a direct transfer of revenues from the Kiwi economy back to the US Treasury. Have fun with that. I am sure you are running into some pissed off Kiwis who are newly discovering that they are bound to the USA just like Boris Johnson, Lord Mayor of London, did when he recently had to pay a capital gain tax to the IRS for the sale of his personal residence in London where he had lived since age 5! FATCA helps the IRS find, tax and FINE such obvious tax evaders!!
No wonder the line to renounce citizenship at the Auckland US embassy is getting longer all the time. Aren’t you glad the NZ IRD doesn’t do this to you? Lesson for you. Don’t let your children grow up and get a Green card, become US citizens or marry one!
Of course, in your eagerness to maintain access to the US financial markets you have readily bent over and accepted sovereign domination by the USA and its International Tax Revenue Service. YOU have lobbied and convinced YOUR government to BAIL YOU OUT of hard business decisions by signing an FATCA IGA and imposing the same requirements on ALL NZ financial institutions (FIs) whether or not they really want or need access to US financial markets.
The IGA is a mere Executive agreement (non treaty) that does NOT bind the USA financial institutions to go through the same painful and expensive process you are doing right now. The JOKE is on you. This is a problem of your own creation and now you live with it.
The IRD will NOT get any meaningful reciprocity for all the effort you are going through to “cure” your list of persons that “might be” US Tax chattel. They will NOT find many Kiwis with bank accounts in the USA. The US banks don’t ask for your Kiwi IRD Tax number. In this one sided FATCA process the USA will continue its status as the Biggest Tax Haven in the world. There is NO equivalent domestic DATCA for USFIs.
But, since we all seem think we have no choice but to acquiesce to US demands, please assure the security of our tax numbers which I am sending you today. In the meantime I will continue to fill out my Foreign Bank Account Reports (FBARs) and duplicate FATCA forms yearly and hope they match up with whatever information you will be sending the IRS via the IRD. Frankly I bet this turns into a nightmare of cross checking errors in the future, but that’s not your problem, right? You can continue to buy US treasuries without fear of a 30% penalty for FATCA noncompliance. Good for you. Bad for us. So it goes…
Thank you.
Best Regards
************
Thanks, Just Me, for this information, another of your many contributions to our continuing education. It is so good to hear from you. The best from all of us who read at Isaac Brock Society and MapleSandbox.
I am unsure of the point of the letter. It’s just the bank right? Makes you feel better of course.
I took the oath Mon so I could go from ‘citizen for tax purposes’ (long term GC holder) to ‘citizen’. Taxation with representation in a blue state.
Thank you very much for sharing that letter with us Just Me (and calgary for posting it). I’m very glad to hear that you are out there hiking and enjoying life despite the travails of UStaxablechattel status.
Am forever in your debt for all the patient education you gave us here, and all the materials you posted to help those caught up in the OVD and US extraterritorial jihad against those the US deems ‘UStaxablepersons’ outside the US. And for the heads up re FATCA and GATCA so we were forewarned.
I am on the other side of the abyss now – officially divorced from the US bully, and with my freedom papers in hand (but still here at IBS as I am able). I will drink a toast on Canada Day to celebrate formally telling the USA to kiss my (meagre) Canadian-only ass/ets goodbye forever. No more throwing my Canadian family’s hard earned Canadian sited and Canadian generated family savings away in useless ‘compliance’ efforts in order to report zero in multiple labyrinthine ways on incomprehensible forms – each complete with a potential draconian penalty. No more FINCEN, FBAR ‘n FATCA jeopardy. You might find it funny that at the end, for about 6 months, the IRS computers continued to send threatening auto-letters insisting that I fork over several hundreds of dollars whose assessment basis no agent could never explain – despite my income being below the personal exemption amount and thus being effectively zero. Eventually they conceded that it was due to a zero being entered (by the accountant) incorrectly where only a blank should have been.
Reading your posts helped me through the darkest days (and nights). Still think of you, and ij, and others I haven’t seen here for a long while. Hope you are all well.
Take care, and best to you and yours.
@ Just Me (if you’re reading here)
So sorry your Kiwi and U.S. banking send-off was such a sour one but your response was as detailed and didactic as ever. What wonderful and useful commentary you’ve produced over the years and we are forever grateful. Have a happy and safe trek on the Pacific Coast Trail! 🙂
Let’s hope the overworked clerk in the bank who received that eloquent missive forwards it upstairs. I have it from good authority (a friend of a friend who actually works in the compliance department of an international bank) that the bank staff who handle compliance reporting hate their work (but get paid well!), so there’s a chance it will make the rounds, making Just Me’s blowing off steam not a complete waste of time…though honestly, he/she could have better channeled his/her time and anger by sending such a letter to US senators and New Zealand politicians.
Barbara and others who are not familiar with all of Just Me’s work,
Just Me has done plenty of such in his past work on FATCA — (he was the person to coin the term *GATCA* in his warnings of what was happening past FATCA — he also spoke of DATCA as the process in the US if reciprocity were to occur). Just Me and Roger Conklin, Roger likely one of the longest-time warriors in the fight for better tax treatment for US Persons Abroad and how what was happening would, in fact, hurt the US, were a tag team in many ventures in educating others, both in the US and other countries.
He’ll be away for a long while, but I’m sure Just Me would be happy for anyone here to forward this post of his correspondence on to other US Senators or other country politicians in an attempt to open their eyes on how the implementation of FATCA in other countries affects *US Persons Abroad*. Let’s, some of us, do just that.
@JustMe enjoy yourself on the PCT.
@Calgary411: Thanks for the clarification. I nod in humility and gratitude to Just Me and all those who appear at IBS who have devoted so much time, energy and money, not to mention personal risk, to fighting these nefarious issues of unfair taxation and life-destroying thoughtless policy. I’m fairly new to understanding the issues and their scope, and due to recent financial disasters, my contributions to the lawsuit have been spare, but I’m trying my best to spread the word, despite the scorn I’ve received from numerous friends who sneer, “Rich white people’s problem; why aren’t you concerned about starving children in Ouagadougou?” It’s frustrating, as we all know. That’s why I try to channel my venting toward targets who might actually do something, which prompted my remark above. I humbly take it back.
What he and others went through wth OVDP made IRS finally make Streamlined to be a semi human solution to living in the Global Police State. It is much easier now to be in compliance with the IRS and NSA thanks to what he and others such as Not That Lisa went through.
Haydon Perry taught us on another thread that GATCA is just as bad, and Kiwis will have to even report what city they were born in so that their govt can classify them accordingly.
Just me predicted FATCA, then DATCA, then GATCA. He figured it out early. The order, however, is FATCA, GATCA, and eventually DATCA will be enforced in Merca.
Merca hath shot self in foot.
@Just Me was one of several people from this site that made detailed submissions to the New Zealand Select Committee on the subject of FATCA and the signing of the IGA with the US. Every single submission from an individual opposed the signing of the IGA but they ignored them all anyway. New Zealand has breached it’s equivalent of the Canadian Charter by implementing this legislation and the Justice Department ruled that the IGA and proposed legislation was “consistent with the Bill of Rights Act”. Unfortunately, there are relatively few US persons in New Zealand (compared with Canada) and the resources do not exist to bring a lawsuit against the government. This is why it is important for everyone to support the Canadian challenge to set an example for poodle governments like New Zealand. @Just Me’s submission (and others) can be found here: http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/sc/documents/evidence?Custom=00dbhoh_bill12926_1&Criteria.PageNumber=4
I was just looking at wikipedia under “Multiple Citizenship” and I saw this:
[i]A third group of countries (e.g. Afghanistan, Algeria, Angola, Cuba, Eritrea, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Morocco, Nigeria, Syria, Thailand, Tunisia) has very difficult/humiliating/expensive renunciation processes to discourage their citizens from renouncing their citizenship. [/i]
Why isn’t the USA listed here?
Wow, perhaps it should be at the top of the list — but at least on that list, geeez. (Good to hear from you — and thanks for this Wikipedia entry that needs updating.)
geez. check wiki now
This FATCA thing is creepy. My sister (born and raised in Canada) is having her taxes done by an accountant. He asked her if any of her relatives were “US persons”. Now, nowhere does the Canada Income Tax return ask that question. It is not required information. So, why was he fishing for information on her relations, which is none of his business? Are accountants on commission for providing names now?
Good Wikipedia edit! The truth needs to be told.
I’m not here very much because I’m too busy [working and…] studying another language to get a 3rd passport. I don’t want to fall into the same trap that ROGER VER (the bitcoin guy) fell into.
And even though I’m not wanted by any government, I also don’t want to fall into the same trap that WERNER RYDL fell into, either. (Google his name to read about it). Apparently, he made a fortune doing (I don’t know what), naturalized Brazilian, lost Austrian citizenship, stripped of Brazilian citizenship, deported to Austria, served time in Austria, came back to Brazil, Brazilian citizenship reinstated, owns the largest gold holdings in Brazil. Maybe someone who speaks German well could find the exact story. I’ve just been able to piece together a few details.
Citizenship, claims on citizenship, etc… — very interesting stuff!
Safe travels, Just Me. You’ve left an indelible footprint here at Brock, may those same feet carry you to many magnificent wonders of nature and the recovery of some of those LCU’s lost to the IRS and OVDP!
@Badger, Calagary411, Mark Twain, Osgood, Statelessman, Embee, Barbara
Thanks for your comments and defense… 🙂 I really feel bad that I have not been active as of late. This getting ready for the PCT has consumed more time than I figured. Light weight equipment selection, and logistics of resupply, if you don’t want to waste a lot of time hunting for food where the trail intersects civilization, is a BIG effort.
I am allocated a starting permit for April 17th, but have been trying to go earlier as it is a dry year. I would be good for an early start. Unfortunately for me, the PCT has hit the pop culture awareness with the book and the movie “Wild” . The numbers of those starting out has increased dramatically, almost exponentially since 2005 when it was just a few hundred. As a result of the all the publicity, April permits are fully allocated and have to stick to the one I have.
It will be interesting to see how many actually make it to the end. I have walked the last section from Rainy Pass to Mannings, BC, so have already read the end of the book, so to speak, and now wondering about that beginning. I don’t like hot, but I am afraid the 1st 700 miles it is a guaranteed certainty.
Back to FATCA…
When I mailed off my compliance letter to the NZ bank, and turned over my SSN for greater risk of hacking, I did NOT mail it registered. Basically I was in an irrational mode about additional cost of compliance, and registered overseas mail gets expensive.
So, today, I sent off this email to the Bank’s office of Foreign revenue inquires. Again, @Niell, I know it will be of NO effect, but will be interested if I get a reply. I seriously want an answer to the questions I ask. If I get any, I will try to report it…
That’s all the FATCA time I have today… Have a long list of things to do that I should have done yesterday, but went on a shake down hike with my pack on. Did 24 miles, and that pretty much blew the day! LOL
Just Me’s brief reappearance here is so welcomed and I’m certain he will be in everyone’s thoughts as he makes that 2663 mile long journey. It’s outrageous that he should be dealing with FATCA fallout while preparing for his big adventure. Makes me want to bop a banker because, yes, I blame them too.
@EmBee
BAB (Bop a Banker) That is a good acronym to use in the future. 🙂
Wait til GATCA comes and they all us what city it was that we were born in. Kiwis, Aussies, Swedes. In Sweden, some of the real Swedes will have to tell their bank that they were born in F cking Åmål
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j9ENzrF1Vc
Have a f cking good hike.
Be assured that Lunked In has been blazingly boring since you left.
@ Just Me
Shows how little I know about hiking … let me say this again with the right word this time … Have a happy and safe trek on the Pacific CREST Trail! I never saw the movie “Wild” and only had an inkling it was about a long hike somewhere … now I know where.